Chaos Lord Shamrockius Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 That's kind of my point Jeske. If you wanted to make a renegade Chaos force from previous loyalist chapters from the second founding or beynd, it would surely make more sense to use C:SM. I'm sure that there are rules/skills/HQ choices that would allow you to then model any squads who have turned to one of the main powers or even undivided. I don't buy much of the fluff that allows you to build a renegade fleet from our dex. Why would Khârn or Lucius lead a renegade force? Where could/would they get access to a defiler? Surely they would have access to all and any of the vehicle types from the loyalist dex and would not suffer a watered down vehicle list of only having access to some stuff that is 10,000 years old. The only advantage I could see that they would get could be daemons. And if I were to have access to a razorback to host a havoc equivalent squad of 6 (forgive my lack of loyalist terminology, I have trouble remembering if I put on underwear today) or a pack of watered down daemons, I think I know which I would choose. The idea behind a boycott would lead to someone having to take note of why sales have severely dropped off, if they haven't already. I am concerned for the way forward for our future dex and for the future of the game based on this. I don't know if I posted it here or ranted it to a friend but read the article of the writing of the new Skaven Army book and read about how the writer is a Dwarf player, how he wanted the Skaven lost to be super competitive so as to make his army have a competitive nemesis. In the 41st millenium, with no real competition from Chaos, the Inquisition becomes somewhat toothless with only aliens to really deal with. And although there are plenty of new (and old) races around to battle, if the civil war dating back to the days of the great crusade and the (semi) death of the leader of the imperium, then really a lot of what the game stands for is null and void... Let's face it, in a Gotham City without crime, Batman is just an eccentric, wealthy base jumper with lots of gadgets, a silly costume and a cool car. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2281233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 @Ironwinds-thanks mate. Im just tired of people complaining without coming up with ideas on how to change things for the better. This is a positive thread-we can surely come up with some ideas on what needs to be changed? Personally I think the codex is ok-i love chaos marines now they get bolter, pistol and ccw. Cult troops are ok too. Basically the codex misses out on flavour (word bearers and iron warriors, for example should play slightly differently rather than the same). I liked the idea of managing to change the FOC to suit each legions particular specialisms (NL get more fast attack, IW get more heavy support etc..) Lash is overpowered, daemon princes are too cheap, the icon idea is silly (my icon bearer gets shot and the squad give up worshipping their chosen god???!) and possessed need fixing badly. My personal chaos army is Iron warriors and I try to play them according to the fluff (i take a pair of vindicators, a unit of 3 obliterators and back this up with lots of chaos marines in rhinos and some dreadnoughts-I never use fast attack or any of the "wacky daemonic stuff" partly because i dont think its fluffy but also because i prefer using the standard chaos marines). Rant over-any of you guys have some ideas and musings on fixing chaos? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2281740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 If you truly believe that Lash is overpowered with all the anti psyker wargear and abilities out there, not to mention the fact that it does nothing on it's own - having to rely on other units to benefit from it's effect (as opposed to say JOTWW,) - then I think you need to review the current metagame. :) Lash is quite similar to Eldar FS Doom in terms of synergy requirements, only worse, it's odd but I've never seen anyone crying about Doom which usually kills more on average than Lash + PC/template spam is able to. daemon princes are too cheapInteresting, compared to what pre-dumbing-down princes (2nd ed)? Avatars? Wraithlords? a Carnifex? Bar some truly horrific units like Chaos Lords (overcosted, yet his rules are decent), Spawn, Bikers, Chaos Dreadnoughts, Raptors and Chosen, the basic Codex prices and core mechanics are spot on in my opinion. What needs to be fixed in the eyes of many is the lack of variety (see horrific units above) and flavour in terms of all the fluff they tossed out which should have been representable on the tabletop. I do agree that the Icon mechanics needs to go, or get moved to a true Codex: Chaos Renegades, the current way they function is downright silly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2281782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 Interesting points nihm-its just chaos needs more variety. The current codex calls for the no-brainer lash, obliterators, daemon prince heavy armies. I myself have never used lash I prefer using a force of chaos space marines worshipping undivided (my bitter twisted iron warriors!) As regards the metagame-I play according to fluff, for fun (I like winning but its not more important than fluff). Regarding lash, i just hear lots of peop,le complaining about it (its either too common or too overpowered according to others). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2281793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Interesting points nihm-its just chaos needs more variety. The current codex calls for the no-brainer lash, obliterators, daemon prince heavy armies. I myself have never used lash I prefer using a force of chaos space marines worshipping undivided (my bitter twisted iron warriors!)Too true, despite having been on the receiving end of it many times (go go chaos not having any psy-hoods etc. !) I still don't think it's the be all, I do use it in my fledgling EC warband because I have a Sorceror model which I love more than anything and because a Prince (or princes) don't fit my fluff - it's a Paincult y'see. The only 'power unit' that I use in my NL list is a team of 2 obliterators. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2281799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 obliterators are great arent they nihm? (i only take one unit though...they are too good if you take more than one unit-plus, i have an insane love of vindicators!) Thats exactly what i mean mate, there are just the same no-brainer unit choices (nobody really uses possessed and raptors for example-not that i blame them!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2281806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 Hey guys. Got a few ideas on chaos. How about if the lord is on a bike, you can take bike units of at least 5 bikers as troops, if the lord is in terminator armour, you can take ten strong terminator squads as troops. You can then upgrade the lord to belong to one of the chaos legions. Legion rules-If you choose to go with an army based on one of the legions you can only take 0-1 unit of cult troops (berzerkers, plaguemarines, thousand sons, noise marines) or daemons. The only mark of chaos that can be taken is the mark of chaos undivided. Icons- there are no more icons. instead each marine may take a mark of chaos. Chaos undivided costs +1point, khorne, nurgle, tzeentch, slaanesh cost +5points. word bearers- lord must be upgraded to dark apostle at +50points. Dark apostle has an accursed crozius (counts as power weapon, personal icon and grants a 4+ invulnerable save). The 0-1 restriction on daemons is removed. Dark apostles are fearless and so long as the dark apostle is alive, the entire army is fearless. night lords-Lord confers terror tactics rule upon army. D6 enemy units (chosen by night lord player) must take a pinning test at the start of the game (this represents troopers will being broken by the constant terror tactics of the night lords). The enemy must re-roll their first successful reserves roll. +50points. iron warriors-lord must be upgraded to warsmith at +50 points. Warsmith gets servo arm and confers siege specialists on the entire army. siege specialists- all iron warriors become stubborn if they are in cover (such as a trench, a bunker or another appropriate terrain feature-not for standing behind a hedge!). May take one unit of obliterators as troops. Black legion-No restiction on marks of chaos, number of cult troops used or amount of daemon units. Tear out the throat!- If the lord is in terminator armour then the lord and all terminator squads can teleport into battle using the deepstrike rules on the black legion players first turn. This upgrade is +50 points. These are just a few ideas ive had so far, what do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2283930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 So what do you guys think? these are just ideas ive had lately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2283985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Well, you are certainly determined! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2284746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kythnos Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 I like the direction of your ideas and have thought about something similar myself some time ago too. But I think you went a little bit over the top with some of the legion ideas and on other spots you have imho missed the focus of the legions. word bearers- lord must be upgraded to dark apostle at +50points. Dark apostle has an accursed crozius (counts as power weapon, personal icon and grants a 4+ invulnerable save). The 0-1 restriction on daemons is removed. Dark apostles are fearless and so long as the dark apostle is alive, the entire army is fearless. Make that 6 or 12" distance to the dark apostle. Everything else is definitely too much. In my version I had the idea, to give the WB the ability to reroll summoning rolls (both, successful and unsuccessful) to show their precise und timed use of demons. night lords-Lord confers terror tactics rule upon army. D6 enemy units (chosen by night lord player) must take a pinning test at the start of the game (this represents troopers will being broken by the constant terror tactics of the night lords). The enemy must re-roll their first successful reserves roll. +50points. I had the idea to reduce the enemies leadership by -1 across the board, but I like your version better. I'd also allow one unit of raptors to count as troops :P iron warriors-lord must be upgraded to warsmith at +50 points. Warsmith gets servo arm and confers siege specialists on the entire army. siege specialists- all iron warriors become stubborn if they are in cover (such as a trench, a bunker or another appropriate terrain feature-not for standing behind a hedge!). May take one unit of obliterators as troops. Havocs instead of Obliterators as troops. My version had the ability to fortify one piece of terrain in the own deployment zone instead of siege specialists (because I don't think that would be used very often) or as an alternative place an ammunition depot (like the one in cities in flames) on the table. Black legion-No restiction on marks of chaos, number of cult troops used or amount of daemon units. Tear out the throat!- If the lord is in terminator armour then the lord and all terminator squads can teleport into battle using the deepstrike rules on the black legion players first turn. This upgrade is +50 points. I like the idea, but that would make them better than the Deathwing attack and I think this shouldn't be the case (DA already have enough identity stolen from them). And you forgot the Alpha Legion! I had the idea to let one unit of chosen count as troops and let them reroll reserve rolls and rolls for on which flank units with a flank charge will appear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2284850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 13, 2010 Author Share Posted February 13, 2010 @kythos-thanks for the reply! I agree regarding fearless and the word bearers-it is a bit much (but in the fluff it says that the only way to beat word bearers is to kill them all!) How about fearless for any unit within 12"of the dark apostle? How about night lords also get acute senses (they are from a night world after all!) and maybe can play the first turn using night fighting rules? 1 unit of raptors as troops sounds good. Iron warriors-how about they get +1 to their cover save rolls? 1 unit of havocs as troops sounds good (obliterators seem more fluffy to me though, but it could be a bit overpowered?) Regarding alpha legion-i had no idea on what to do with them-thanks for your ideas mate! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2284976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 13, 2010 Author Share Posted February 13, 2010 regarding the black legion "tear out the throat!" rule idea- it was in the fluff and i thought it would put some clear water between black legion and renegades. I doubt it would be that overpowered really because of the amount it would cost to do this, plus all terminators must deepstrike on turn 1. just my thoughts on the matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2284981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 13, 2010 Author Share Posted February 13, 2010 do any of you guys have some ideas? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2284992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 13, 2010 Author Share Posted February 13, 2010 Possessed. All possessed cost 30points a model. ws5bs4t5s5w1ld10a2I5 special rules-fleet, fearless, rending. 3+ save, 5+invulnerable save. may not take marks of chaos. unit- 5-10 elites. count as being armed with 2 ccw. What do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2285001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 13, 2010 Author Share Posted February 13, 2010 alpha legion special rules +50 points. may take one unit of chosen as troops. All alpha legionnaires get scouts, move through cover and infiltrate rules. may re-roll first failed reserves roll per game. I think this sums them up rather well, no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2285013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 13, 2010 Author Share Posted February 13, 2010 any ideas or feedback would be helpful guys... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2285032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 alpha legion special rules +50 points. may take one unit of chosen as troops. All alpha legionnaires get scouts, move through cover and infiltrate rules. may re-roll first failed reserves roll per game. I think this sums them up rather well, no? yes it is also worth around 150-200 pts at 1500 pts played. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2285076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Heh Sorry if I forgot anything their are also things I would like to bring in from EPIC like the Cannons of Khorne but then all the gods would need one I guess... unless it was just a change of weapon like the IG RLRBT. As you can see the list is pretty big in some areas anyway... Army List Ancient enemies, An army may not contain units with the mark that opposes the mark of the Daemon prince (or lord if there is no daemon prince, if neither are present ignore this rule)) leading the host. Khorne and slaanesh are opposed while Nurgle and Tzeentch are opposed. HQ Daemon Prince 0-1 Lord 0-1 Lieutenant ( 2 may be taken as one HQ?) Greater Daemon* 0-1 Troops Chaos space marines Rabble/Mutants/Cultists Daemons* Elites Chosen Khorne Berserker Noise Marines Plague Marine Thousand Sons Possessed Dreadnought Fast Attack Bikers Raptors Heavy Support Land Raider Defiler Vindicator Predator Obliterators 0-1 Havoks Units Daemon Prince - change points - Increase upgrade options - god specific options (like the Daemons codex DP's) - Awe Inspiring/Terror inducing: Friendly units within 6 are fearless Lord - change points? - Increase upgrade options - god specific options - May upgrade to a sorcerer lord (unless he has the mark of Khorne) - fearless - Awe Inspiring/Terror inducing: Friendly units within 6 are fearless Lieutenant - Mini lord (think in line with chaplain/Librarian stats) - less upgrades and god specific options - may upgrade to a sorcerer (if no mark of Khorne) or Prophet of the God/s (as appropriate mark), PotG: Any enemy psychic power that would effect any unit within 12 of the Lieutenant must if the chaos player chooses roll of the Lieutenant and the casting model both rolling 1d6 + Ld. If the enemy rolls higher the power is cast otherwise the power is nullified. This must even be done for psychic powers that can be cast without psychic tests. Greater Daemon - May take wings - Mark based upgrades, but restricted, should not be comparable to C:Daemons GD's. Chaos Space Marines - Marks that must be applied to each individual rather than icons Rabble/mutants/cultists - Like conscripts or Infantry squads - may choose auto/las-gun or auto/las-pistol and CCW - 5-20 models - 1 special weapon per 5 cultists - Flamers grenaders = cheap meltas/plasma = expensive - One may upgrade to rabble rouser (sgt with some options), 1 may take an icon (as icons now), the rabble rouser may upgrade to preacher (while he is alive squad gains rage and furious charge). Daemons - small mark based upgrades, wont stand up to C:Daemons equivalent. Chosen - Like Space Wolves Wolf-Guard Cult troops - what they are now (maybe a few modifications) Possessed 1-2 purchased mutations (at various prices) + 1 from a random table - marks Dreadnoughts - clarification on the rules Bikers - + Furious charge... remember when we got the extra attack for the spikes... I think furious charge represents being hit by a spiky bike. Raptors - Hit and run - Terrible visage: -2 leadership for the opponent if all your models in the combat have it, -1 if only some do. Tanks brought in-line with imperial versions but with different upgrades such as Daemonic possession - maybe different points if required for balance (either direction) Defiler - as is? Obliterators - T5 for instant death purposes? Havoks - as now? Army List variants Any army Warband or legion may use the default army list, however any legion army (or war band descended from that legion) may use the appropriate sub list that has special rule modifications. This means someone with a World Eaters or Skull Takers(?) army could use the World Eaters legion special rule, however it would be inappropriate for a Death Guard or Alpha legion descended war band to use these rules. World Eaters make the following alterations to their army list: No Obliterators No Noise Marines, Thousand Sons or Death Guard. 0-1 rabble 0-1 raptors No Chaos Space Marines Khorne Beserkers are now troops No sorcerers (upgrades) may be taken No Marks of Chaos may be taken. No special Character other than Khârn the betrayer. Units with an amount of models = a multiple of 8 may have the aspiring champion upgrade for free. All non vehicle models except Khorne berserkers must take Berserker of Khorne upgrade for XXX points. Berserker of Khorne: Models with this gain +1 A, Fearless, furious charge, +1 WS, Rage or khorne. Rage of Khorne: A unit with this rule that is not engaged in combat and wishes to stay stationary must pass a leadership test a -2ld or suffer from the Rage USR for the turn. Yes I've allowed Havoks on purpose... but they might run around... give em flamers maybe...? or risk it :lol: Teeth of Khorne. I'll do the rest later but you get the idea... this is just off my head and would need to be checked/modified for balance ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2285148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Or how about get everyone to just switch to Battlefleet Gothic, Mordheim, and Blood Bowl. Where playing Chaos actually feels like you're playing CHAOS. Not bland elite warriors with no flavour (as it currently is in 40k and WHFB). *Cough* EPIC Armageddon? There's currently approximately 20+++ Chaos Army Lists, including Black Legion, Red Corsairs (basic CSMs), Lost and Damend, at least 3 Chaos Guard, ALL the Legions, and CHAOS TITAN LEGIONS. So I think EPIC is also a good place to get proper Chaos flavour... The idea behind a boycott would lead to someone having to take note of why sales have severely dropped off, if they haven't already. I am concerned for the way forward for our future dex and for the future of the game based on this. Now why don't I stop buying from GW? With the exception of some metal icons and paint last year... I have :D . In 3.5 I was probably spending several hundred a year on chaos units... had to to get to the near 10k pts I have now. Since 4th ed chaos I have bought 1 Chaos codex, 10 terminators, a shadowsword, some bits off ebay, and someone gave me my possessed.... and some paint. And technically I bought the shadowsword and terminators from another chaos player but I know he immediately bought other stuff from GW so it still ended up in their pockets. Money that went directly from my wallet directly to GW... a codex, paint, and some icons. What $50? That use to be the minimum I spent a month :P . For the most part I have boycotted GW. No one gets my money for free, you have to earn it, and they have not. I wonder if boycotting will hurt the Chaos cause more than it helps... If you wanted to make a renegade Chaos force from previous loyalist chapters from the second founding or beynd, it would surely make more sense to use C:SM. I'm sure that there are rules/skills/HQ choices that would allow you to then model any squads who have turned to one of the main powers or even undivided... In the 41st millenium, with no real competition from Chaos, the Inquisition becomes somewhat toothless with only aliens to really deal with. And although there are plenty of new (and old) races around to battle, if the civil war dating back to the days of the great crusade and the (semi) death of the leader of the imperium, then really a lot of what the game stands for is null and void... This to me, above all else, is the biggest problem with the current Chaos Codex: it is largely under-powered compared to the current Loyalist 'dexes. There are - what, 4, maybe 5 units from the Chaos Codex that the Marine players at my local Gaming Club truly fear. And they aren't the bog-standard CSM's, which are supposed to be the basis of the army... I almost think for certain armoes, yes you may be better of using the Marine codex. For example, Raven Guard lead by Shrike, whole army infiltrates and gets fleet - how perfect for Night Lords is that? I'd like to see characters that DO give some kind of special ability to their squad, or the whole army, in similar ways. What's the nearest we get, Fabius? Errm, not what I'd call the best example... Ifit's true that GW said that Marines are only as good as their greatest adversary, then Marines aren't that great at the mo, either... Until GW wants to address this! Bar some truly horrific units like Chaos Lords (overcosted, yet his rules are decent), Spawn, Bikers, Chaos Dreadnoughts, Raptors and Chosen, the basic Codex prices and core mechanics are spot on in my opinion. What needs to be fixed in the eyes of many is the lack of variety (see horrific units above) and flavour in terms of all the fluff they tossed out which should have been representable on the tabletop. I do agree that the Icon mechanics needs to go, or get moved to a true Codex: Chaos Renegades, the current way they function is downright silly. Brother Nihm talks a lot of sense. I'd agree that it's not huge things that need doing - a lot of the complainants seem to be throwing suggestions back that are straight out of the 3.5 'dex - and that Codex certainly had it's issues! Possessed. All possessed cost 30points a model. ws5bs4t5s5w1ld10a2I5 special rules-fleet, fearless, rending. 3+ save, 5+invulnerable save. may not take marks of chaos. unit- 5-10 elites. count as being armed with 2 ccw. What do you think? I like where this is going, though I think I'd make them Toughness 4, keep the invulnerable armour save. Some players might not like that you can't tailor them to the Cult armies, but then again, I'm not sure that Possessed are totally fluffy to the Cult armies... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2285663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingDeath Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Well, the current Codex is not only bland, is it also somewhat of a no brainer Codex. Nobody uses Lords, Havocs, Thousand Sons, and dreads or the pityfull excuse for daemons we have to suffer. On the other side lash princes and obliterators are pretty much mandatory if you want to play "serious". Having several units which are completly outclassed by others is imo extremly bad Codex design which needs to be corrected, either by lowering the points cost, cheaper Lords and Havocs might actualy be usefull, or some other way. Tbh, i dont realy care how they do it, correcting the Dex is not the job of the customer but i hope that GW will turn the 5. edition Chaos Codex into something more exciting and balanced than the current one is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2285824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Shamrockius Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Wow, having been busy this week, I've not looked onthis thread but like what has been added. I like the suggested alterations by Hellios, mainly because a) they start to bring our choices in line with other 5th ed dex' and :tu: the fact that I can see upsides and downsides on some rulings (BL lead by a Term Lord have their Terms all DS in turn 1 may be great unless you usually use them as later back up troops) To clarify my point for Firestorm, GW didn't say that marines are only as strong as their nemesis, it was in regards the article on the writing of the new Skaven book for WFB and how that will aid the Dwarf army book as it will mean that the Dwarves have to be strong to deal with the oversized vermin. Whether this is entirely true or not, I wouldn't know as I am not a WFB player in any way, I just thought that the arguement/point would back up our gripe with our Dex. I am liking how this is shaping, and if you would forgive my very bland terminology, I would like to add something in for Cult Terminators. Thousand Sons Terminators Any terminators with MoT and upgraded to Asp Champions, can also be given 1 psychic power and power weapons can be upgraded to Force Weapons for an additional 10 pts. World Eaters Terminators Any Terminators with MoK are to be designed for close combat. They will only be allowed to upgrade their Combi Bolter to a Combi Flamer for the usual price, or to get a pair of Lightening Claws for -5 pts than normal. No other CCWs may be taken, such as Chainfists etc with the exception of a Chain-axe, with new rules to follow. Emperors Children Terminators Any terminators with MoS will be able to take Blastmasters or Sonic Blasters as a replacement for their Combi-weapon, which will also only need to be held in one hand due to the stabilising affects of the armour itself. Any number of models upgraded to Asp Champions may also take Doom Sirens as additions to their Terminator armour Death Guard Terminators Any Terminators with MoN may not upgrade from a combi-bolter, but may upgrade their CCWs for plague scythes or swords, which will affect any model taking a wound but staying alive following combat. At the beginning of each players turn, the model must make a roll against their toughness as if they have taken a S6 hit with no armour save rolls allowed due to the wound already penetrating their armour and is then just a fight between the diseases of nurgle and the models own immune system. These terminators may only be taken if the army is led by a lord or daemon prince with their mark or possibly by Abaddon, who also must have taken a retinue of terminators, at least one of which must have been given the mark of said cult termie squad first. I do like the idea of including a retinue of cult-ish termie retinue also for Abaddon, making taking him a) even more expensive so as to reflect that he would only involve himself in larger battles that mean more than a skirmish and :D to add to the original olde worlde fluff of what feels like millenia ago where he had a leutenant with each of the 4 marks. I am working those rules through my head currently though... Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2285865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Very interesting guys-thanks for the feedback! Idea regarding possessed. 30points (or 35 points?) each 5-10 in a unit 0-1 unit can be taken from elites section. WS5BS0S5T5W1I5A2LD10 3+/5+ Save. count as armed with 2CCW. May not take any marks of chaos. now onto legion specific rules. Night lords- May take 1 unit of raptors as troops. All night lords get acute senses (they are from a night world after all!). May play 1st turn using nightfighting rules. Terror tactics- at the start of the 1st turn D6 enemy units (chosen by nightlords player) must take a pinning test (this represents the terror tactics of the night lords breaking the enemy morale). Enemy must re-roll first successful reserves roll. ALPHA LEGION; May take one unit of chosen as troops. all alpha legion get scouts, infiltrate and move through cover (I am unsure if they should get all 3 or if you may instead choose one from these 3-what do you guys think??). May re-roll first failed reserves roll. After deployment the alpha legion player may re-deploy one enemy unit on a 4+ (subject to normal rules and restrictions) IRON WARRIORS: Warsmith gets servo-arm, may fortify one piece of terrain (+1 to cover save). Iron warriors ,when in suitable cover such as a bunker, fortified building or other such fluffy siege based cover count as stubborn. May take 1 unit of havocs (or perhaps obliterators-i think this is more fluffy but am worried it could be a bit overpowered-what do you guys think?) as troops. Bombardment-the iron warriors are always supported by large amounts of artillery and titans. At the start of the first turn the iron warriors bombard the enemys lines, softening them up. range-unlimited strength-10 AP-2 Large ordanance template pinning. scatters 2D6" in direction of scatter dice.(I may say that the bombardment has to be within the warsmiths line of sight-what do you guys think?) I hope you like these ideas guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2286065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 What follows is the home grown codex I've been using for the past couple of years. It's far from perfect: alot of the rules need revising or cleaning up or adapting for fifth ed, but it is a hell of alot of fun: Chaos Space Marine Special Rules: The following rules apply to all armies created from the Codex: Chaos Space Marines army list. Ancient Enemies: The Four Great Powers, as with all denizens of The Warp, are composites of those most prominent aspects of mortal souls and psyches. As such, certain contradictions exist between them that have, over the millennia, grown and festered into enmities at least as intense as that they collectively hold for the Emperor of Man. Chaos Space Marine forces led by any character with The Mark of Khorne may contain NO models with The Mark of Slaanesh and vice-versa. Chaos Space Marine forces led by a character with The Mark of Tzeentch may contain no models with The Mark of Nurgle and vice-versa. No model with a particular Mark of Chaos may join a unit that has a different Mark. The only exceptions to this rule are models with The Mark of Chaos Undivided, that may join any unit they wish regardless. Marks of Chaos Function exactly as the “Icon” system as detailed in C:CSM (4.0), but the specific benefits of Icons (i.e. the application of particular Marks of Chaos) are not lost when the Icon Bearer is destroyed. The Icons have revised points costs as detailed below: Icon Costs for Independent Characters: Mark of Chaos Undivided: +20pts. Mark of Khorne: +10pts. Mark of Tzeentch: +20ptspts Mark of Nurgle: +12pts Mark of Slaanesh: +6pts Icon Costs for Unit Icon Bearers: Mark of Chaos Undivided: +12pts Mark of Khorne: +25pts Mark of Tzeentch: +30pts Mark of Nurgle: +25pts Mark of Slaanesh: +15pts Marks of Chaos: · Mark of Chaos Undivided: As per C:CSM (4.0). Independent Characters, Greater Daemons, Chosen, Terminators Lesser Daemons and Possessed that benefit from this Mark may make a SINGLE re-roll of any missed roll “To Hit” in close combat. · Mark of Khorne: As per C:CSM (4.0). Independent Characters, Chosen, Terminators, Possessed, Bikers and Raptors that bear The Mark of Khorne may be further upgraded to Khorne Berserkers for a cost of +8pts per model. In this instance, they retain all of their usual rules and options but additionally become Fearless and benefit from the Furious Charge special rule. Greater Daemons and units of Lesser Daemons may be upgraded in exactly the same manner and for exactly the same points cost. NOTE: If you choose this option for a particular unit then ALL models within it must be upgraded to Khorne Berserkers. · Mark of Tzeentch: As per C:CSM (4.0). Independent Characters and any number of models from Terminator, Possessed, Chosen, and Havoc units with The Mark of Tzeentch may be upgraded to Tzeentchian Sorcerers for a cost of +12pts per model. Models thus upgraded become Psykers, and may purchase a SINGLE psychic power from The Lore of Change (see below). NOTE: Models that are already psykers (such as Chaos Sorcerers and Daemon Princes) may purchase ONE more psychic power than they’re normally allowed. Greater Daemons and units of Lesser Daemons may be upgraded in exactly the same manner and for exactly the same points cost · Mark of Nurgle: as per C:CSM (4.0). Independent Characters, Chosen, Terminators, Possessed, and Havoc units with The Mark of Nurgle may be upgraded to Plague Marines for +12 pts per model. In this instance, they retain all of their usual rules and options but additionally become Fearless, benefit from the Feel No Pain universal special rule and count as being equipped with Blight Grenades. Greater Daemons and units of Lesser Daemons may be upgraded in exactly the same manner and for exactly the same points cost. · Mark of Slaanesh: as per C:CSM (4.0). Independent Characters, Chosen, Terminators, Possessed, Havocs, Bikers and Raptors with The Mark of Slaanesh may be upgraded to Noise Marines for +12 pts per model. In this instance, they retain all of their usual rules and options, but additionally become Fearless, automatically replace any bolters/combi-bolters they carry with Sonic Blasters (adding a Sonic Blaster to their standard equipment if they do not carry a bolter) and benefit from the Hit and Run universal special rule. Any models in units thus upgraded that may carry a Heavy Weapon may choose instead to purchase a Blast Master for +25pts. Greater Daemons and units of Lesser Daemons may be upgraded in exactly the same manner and for exactly the same points cost. Design Note: Elements of the upgrades above such as Greater Daemons of Nurgle being allowed to carry Blight Grenades or Lesser Daemons of Slaanesh being able to carry Sonic Blasters etc may seem strange, however, I have included them with the intention that they not be taken literally, i.e. that the shooting attacks that might be made by a unit of Sonic Blaster toting Slaaneshi Lesser Daemons may in fact derive from the orchestra of Warp-forged instruments they carry, or represent their ability to rend reality apart with a seductive siren song or horrific banshee wail. The principle motivation behind these rules, as with all those I have developed in reaction to C:CSM (4.0) is to return some semblance of fun and creative potential to Chaos Space Marine forces so that players feel inspired to not only create their own uniquely modelled and stylised armies, but also to develop backgrounds and histories for the characters they spawn. This system essentially allows the creation of distinct “Cult” armies (i.e. those that are totally dedicated to a particular Chaos God) whereas the current “official” codex does not. The Hell Forge The following section details revisions, changes and additions made to the Armoury section of Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Corrupted Force Staff: The twisted Force-Staffs typically wielded by Chaos Sorcerers are ancient weapons saturated with occult energy. As well as acting as foci for their potent psychic powers, they also function as conduits to the Warp, allowing sufficiently skilled sorcerers to commune with its denizens as well as harnessing their power for their own ends. Chaos Sorcerers now count as being armed with a Corrupted Force Staff. It functions as a Force Weapon as detailed in the 40K rulebook and as a Personal Icon. Additionally, whenever taking a psychic test, sorcerers carrying a Corrupted Force Staff may roll a third dice and add the result to the effective range of whatever power they are attempting to cast. However, should they suffer a Perils of the Warp attack, they will suffer TWO wounds instead of one. Servo Arm: The Servo Arm is available only to Chaos Lords and Chaos Sorcerers and functions exactly as detailed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3.5). Noise Marine Sonic Weapons: The distinctive sonic weaponry wielded by Slaanesh’s Noise Marines project pyrotechnic waves of discordant sound at the enemy which make a mockery of most forms of armour. ALL attacks made by Noise Marine Sonic Weapons (save of course for the Doom Siren) now count as having the Rending universal special rule. Their various costs have been adapted accordingly in the Noise Marine unit entry below. Daemon Weapons: Daemon Weapons function exactly as detailed in C:CSM (4.0), with the exception that now their additional abilities (dependant upon what Mark of Chaos the bearer boasts) may be selected from one of the lists below. NOTE: Only a SINGLE additional power may be selected per Daemon Weapon. Chaos Undivided: Daemon’s Bane: The weapon is suffused with a daemonic entity that despises its fellow immortals. As such, it is inimical to anything of divine or infernal origin, cleaving apart their unnatural flesh as if it was nothing more than air. Any Monstrous Creature or Daemon (including creatures such as Avatars, C’tan etc) hit in close-combat by the wielder will be automatically wounded on a 3+, regardless of relative strength/toughness values, unless the roll would usually be lower. NOTE: A little Malal-inspired fun for those of you that still pine for the lost Renegade God of Chaos. Dark Blade: The weapon is saturated with absolute darkness, its surface utterly devoid of reflection, the air around it suffused with the obscuring pall of starless midnight. The wielder and any unit he joins ALWAYS count as taking part in a battle where the Night Fighting rules are in force, even when they are not. Soul-Stealer: A Warp-entity with an unquenchable thirst for mortal souls has been bound into the very fabric of the weapon. With every life it takes, the weapon transmits something of the victim’s strength to the wielder, temporarily transforming them into warped, rampaging hulks of knotted muscle and sinew, until the absorbed energies dissipate. For every model the wielder removes as a casualty in close-combat, he gains +1 strength for the purposes of any subsequent “to-wound” rolls in the SAME round of combat, up to a maximum of 10. These effects cease once the round of combat is over. Warp-Conduit: The weapon functions as a conduit between Warp-Space and the material universe, allowing the wielder to project streams of raw, shrieking chaos-matter. The wielder may make a shooting attack with the following profile in its own shooting phase instead of firing with another weapon: Range: Flamer Template Strength: As per wielder’s own AP: 4 Type: Assault 1 Ether-Lance: This most peculiar of weapons has the bizarre capacity to render its wielder ethereal, allowing them to stalk the battlefield as a billowing phantasmal killer, materialising only to strike down those that come within reach. The wielder may chose to become “ethereal” at the beginning of its own movement phase, before any movement takes place. In this state, it automatically ignores all penalties for difficult terrain or dangerous terrain tests, and may pass through impassable terrain so long as it doesn’t end its move inside of it. However, its form in this state is extremely fragile, and so it will temporarily suffer –1 toughness for the purposes of the following shooting and assault phases. Nightmare Blade: The daemon within the blade feeds off of mortal dread and terror, warping its wielder’s appearance to reflect the deepest fears of those it faces. Any enemies wishing to charge the wielder or any unit he joins in assault must first pass a standard leadership test, or choose another target. Accursed Crozius: Though most Chaplains of the Traitor Legions were murdered by their brothers as ritual sacrifices to the Dark Gods, some –most notably those of the Word Bearers legion- wilfully followed their brothers into damnation. Becoming fiery warrior-priests of the Black Faith, they ritually desecrated their holy armaments and immersed themselves in the lore of Chaos itself, coordinating the ritual worship of their less enlightened brethren and coordinating their Holy Crusades against the Imperium. An Accursed Crozius counts as a Daemon Weapon and as a Personal Icon. In addition, it affords the Dark Apostle wielding it a certain level of “divine” protection, so long as his faith and strength of will holds true. Instead of taking any other save (i.e. armour or invulnerable saves), the bearer of an Accursed Crozius may choose to take an unmodified leadership test against any wounds they suffer, the wound being negated if they pass. However, should they fail, the Dark Gods will punish them for their lack of faith by transmuting them into a mindless Chaos Spawn. Remove the model from play, immediately replacing it with a Chaos Spawn that functions exactly as detailed in C:CSM 4.0. Design Note: A little Chaotic bone for those of you Word Bearers players who have spent a lot of time and effort painstakingly converting your Dark Apostles only for them to be abandoned under the current army list. Personally, I was never happy with the way they functioned in C:CSM 3.5 either. Hopefully this renders them a little distinct from your common or garden Chaos Lord. Khorne: Daemon Chain Blade: The weapon is a corrupted form of the ritual chain swords and chain axes typically wielded by the followers of Khorne, its whirring teeth tearing through armour and shredding flesh with equal ease. For every successful to wound roll the wielder makes in close combat, the target will suffer two wounds instead of one. Berserker Glaive: Possessed by a daemonic servant of the Blood God that has been driven mad by its separation from the chaos and fury of combat, the Berserker Glaive reduces its wielder to an uncontrollable engine of destruction, all thoughts of restraint or self-preservation forgotten as they hurl themselves across the battlefield in search of blood and skulls. The wielder gains +2D6 attacks instead of the usual +1. Additionally, they gain +D6 inches to their charge range. Skull Taker: The entrapped daemon rejoices in taking trophies for its Dark Lord’s skull throne, suffusing its wielder with the unholy vigour to reap all that the enemy can yield. For every successful casualty the wielder inflicts in close combat, it may make an additional attack. NOTE: This is essentially an amped up Axe of Khorne for those who want their Chaos Lords to wield something a little more special than the weapons carried by their Aspiring Champion underlings. Tzeentch: Fire-Blade: The weapon constantly crawls with serpents of technicolour warp-fire that its wielder is either able to project across the battlefield, or use to sear its enemy’s flesh at close quarters. The weapon counts as a Death Screamer as per the Daemon Weapon entry in C:CSM (4.0). Sword of Change: The weapon is suffused with the raw power of change, even the slightest scratch suffered from it inspiring flesh to rebellion. For any model wounded by the wielder, roll a D6. If the roll is higher than its toughness characteristic, or is a 6 regardless, then it instantly devolves into a mindless Chaos Spawn. Remove the model as a casualty and replace it with a Chaos Spawn model, which functions under the chaos player’s control from that point on. Bedlam Staff: Originally marks of office carried by the ranking officers of the Thousand Sons legion, the weapons known as Bedlam Staffs have since become saturated with all manner of daemonic and occult energies, their very presence enough to drive those psykers not under the Great Conspirator’s protection to distraction and even madness in certain extreme cases. Any psyker that DOES NOT bear The Mark of Tzeentch within 12 inches of a Bedlam Staff wielder must HALVE their leadership for the purpose of any psychic tests they might take (rounding up), and will AUTOMATICALLY suffer a Perils of the Warp attack if they fail in an attempt to cast a psychic power. NOTE: Great fun against Eldar and Tyranids, this one. Nurgle: Filth Mace: The weapon is saturated by a vile daemonic presence that eats into its very fabric, causing metal to rust and wood to rot, vile fungal growths sprouting throughout its every inch. The weapon counts as a Plague Bringer as per the description in the Daemon Weapons section in C:CSM (4.0). Beacon of Despair: Typically taking the shape of the Plague Lord’s fly symbol atop a staff or stave, the weapon radiates palpable waves of lethargy and despair that beat upon the minds of those near to it, causing them to drop their weapons and fall to their knees in submission to the irrefutable pointlessness of being. Any NONE-NURGLE models (i.e. those that do not bear The Mark of Nurgle) that begin their movement phase within 12 inches of the wielder must pass a standard leadership test or automatically count as moving through difficult terrain for the purposes of any subsequent moves they make. If they are already moving through difficult terrain, then they count as moving through dangerous terrain as well. Pandemic Staff: Myth has it that these weapons are spirited to the daemon realm of Nurgle himself following their creation, where they are filled with the latest poxes and blights concocted by the Plague Father, ready to be gifted to one of his favoured mortal champions charged with inflicting the gifts they contain upon the material universe. All models in any enemy unit the wielder charges in assault will instantly suffer a strength 3 hit that is resolved before any further attacks are made. Slaanesh: Instruments of Delight: The instruments of delight are a series of hooked chains, lashes and bindings woven and sewn into the very flesh of the recipient. During combat, they lash and writhe seemingly with a life of their own, piercing the flesh of potential victims and dragging them within reach of the wielder’s blades. The wielder may nominate a single enemy Independent Character that is within charge range in ITS OWN assault phase. That Independent Character must roll a D6. If the roll is higher than its STRENGTH characteristic, or is a 6 regardless, then it is instantly pulled into engagement with the wielder as if it charged into combat with it, LOSING one attack (down to a minimum of 1) rather than gaining one. Monstrous Creatures may not be affected in this manner. Bliss Giver: As per C:CSM (4.0). Lash of Submission: The Lash of submission is a writhing, many-headed whip typically decorated with all manner of hooks and barbs for lacerating the flesh of its victims. Anointed in blood and the unclean excretions of its wielder’s debaucheries, the weapon overwhelms those it licks with an irresistible desire to surrender their self-volition, becoming little more than puppets to the Dark Prince’s will. The weapon may be used to make a special shooting attack in the wielder’s own shooting phase that has the following profile: Range: 12 inches Strength: 6 AP: 6 Type: Assault: 3 For any model wounded but not killed by these attacks, roll a standard leadership test. If they succeed, then they continue to function as normal. If they fail however, they may do NOTHING for the remainder of the turn (i.e. they may not move or fire weapons, nor can they fight back in assault), as they are overcome by the oppressive poison coursing through their souls. This effect wears off at the end of the turn. Design Note: A great deal is made in the background concerning the sheer variety of Daemon weapons and their effects. I simply wanted to represent this element of the background a little more fulsomely in terms of game mechanics. Also, One element of the last Codex I really rather liked was the fact that, when my Chaos Lord of Slaanesh with Daemon Weapon came up against another Chaos Lord of Slaanesh with Daemon Weapon, odds were that they’d have some variety and distinction between them beyond the purely aesthetic. One might’ve been a sorcerer Lord mounted on a Steed of Slaanesh wielding a Needle of Desire, the other might’ve been Terminator Armoured with a Doom Siren and a Lash of Submission. This ability to create unique and interesting characters is something whose loss I lament under the current Codex, especially since it was entirely unnecessary. Gifts of the Gods In addition to their more mundane war gear, Independent Characters in the Chaos Space Marine Army List may purchase up to two Gifts of the Gods, whereas Aspiring Champions may purchase only a single gift. NO model may receive the benefits of the same gift more than once. Models may only purchase Gifts of Chaos Undivided and Gifts of the god whose Mark they bear. Gifts of Chaos Undivided Gift of the Flesh (+12 pts) The model has been gifted with several additional limbs that take the form of extra arms, lashing tendrils or various beast-like tails. It gains +2 attacks when charging into assault instead of the usual +1. Razor-Talons (+15 pts) The model’s hands erupt into chitinous spines or talons that allow it to rip through armour and shred flesh. The gift counts as two close-combat weapons that have the Rending capability. The model may carry no other weapons. Daemon Fire (+12 pts) The model has a peculiar mutation that allows it to project warp-flame from its eyes and mouth. The model counts as being armed with a heavy flamer in addition to any other weapons it might carry. Unholy Horror (+8 pts) The model has been mutated in such a manner that it exudes a palpable aura of sheer mortal terror. Enemies engaged in combat with one or more models with this reward suffer a –2 penalty to their leadership, in addition to any other modifiers. Scion of Ruin (+20 pts) The model is a living avatar of anarchy and chaos, the ground heaving and shattering beneath its feet, the air around it erupting into shrieking black flame. Any enemy models that charge into assault with one or more bearers of this gift must pass an immediate dangerous terrain test, before any combat is resolved. Aura of Dark Majesty (+30pts, Independent Characters ONLY): Those champions that truly prove their worth in the eyes of the Dark Powers, a feat that usually requires many centuries of sacrifice and bloodshed, will find their mortal flesh becoming saturated with raw warp-energy. It is at this point that he stands upon the brink of achieving his unholy ambitions, or descending into madness and abomination as a lowly chaos spawn. Where the flesh of such beings is cleaved, it blossoms with black warp-fire, which has the effect of cauterising its wounds. For every model that benefits from this gift, roll a D6 at the beginning of every game turn. Throughout that turn, they may ignore the number of wounds rolled. Unholy Strength (+10 pts) The recipient’s flesh swells and distorts with the raw power of the Warp, grotesque configurations of muscle bursting through its skin and armour, transforming it into a monstrous, gore-stained hulk capable of tearing enemies limb from limb with its bare hands. The recipient gains +1 strength. Wings (See Codex: Chaos Space Marines for details). Regarded amongst the followers of Chaos as a sign of imminent ascendance to daemon-hood, some of the most favoured champions of the Dark Gods sprout a number of wings that allow them to soar across the battlefield raining terror and devastation upon their unfortunate foes. Miniatures with this gift count as having wings as detailed in the Chaos Space Marine Armoury. NOTE: May not be taken by models wearing Terminator Armour or that ride Chaos Space Marine Bikes or Daemonic Steeds. Gifts of Khorne 1.Axe of Khorne: (+20pts) The Axe of Khorne functions as a power weapon that allows the bearer to make an additional attack for every “To Hit” roll of 6 it makes in close-combat. 2. Blood Thirst: (+18pts) In any turn in which they charge into assault, models with this gift may ignore a single wound they receive for every UNSAVED wound they inflict in the same combat (for example, a unit of Blood Letters with this gift charge a unit of Space Marines and inflict five unsaved wounds, receiving three in return. The three they receive are automatically discounted). 3. Chaos Armour: (+15pts) As the patron of warriors, Khorne often blesses the armour and weapons of his chosen followers, suffusing them with unnatural capabilities that far outstrip those of any mortal armaments. When a disciple of Khorne reaches a particular place on the Path of Blood –as his devoted most commonly refer to it-, he will fuse their armour to their living flesh, making one an extension of the other so that they may never shed the aspect of the warrior, damning them to follow the long and blood-stained path to the very foot of his throne. Models in Chaos Armour may ignore the first wound received in any round of close-combat. Collar of Khorne (+8 pts) Just as the daemonic hounds that Khorne unleashes upon those of his followers that betray their honour by slaying a helpless or unarmed foe (such pathetic mortals are beneath the Blood God’s notice), the recipient boasts an immense brass collar forged in the heat of the Khorne’s rage at the foot of his Skull Throne. The collar fortifies the wearer against the magic and sorcery that Khorne so despises. Any psychic power that targets the wearer or includes him in its area of effect will be nullified on a D6 roll of 4+. In addition, Force Weapons lose their ability to kill the wearer outright. Gifts of Tzeentch: Body of Flame (+9 pts) The recipient suffers under a particularly cruel curse in which its flesh and armour constantly erupt with magical flames. For every successful “To-Hit” roll made against the recipient in close combat, the attacking model receives an immediate strength 3 hit in return. Normal armour saves apply. Evolutionary Nightmare (+20 pts) - Tzeentch’s power in its most elemental form derives from the proclivity of living things to change and evolve, the desire, no matter how base or instinctual, to transcend one’s condition and aspire to new and better things. Many of his chosen puppets are afflicted with a bizarre mutation that represents this aspect of their patron, their bodies constantly shifting and distorting with random growths and adaptations. One moment, they might be coated in technicolour feathers and boast the raptor-beak of an eagle or vulture, the next their skin becomes hard and chitinous, resembling the shell of an immense crab or scorpion. At the beginning of every turn, roll a D6 for every model in your army that benefits from the Evolutionary Nightmare gift (if more than one model in a single unit benefits from this gift, roll a single D6 for all of them), then consult the table below: 1 Armoured Carapace: The model’s flesh hardens into a crab or beetle-like carapace, protecting it from all but the most determined of blows. The model may add +1 to its Armour Save (a 4+ save becoming 3+, a 3+ save becoming 2+, etc), down to a minimum Armour Saving throw of 2+. 2 Venomous: The model sprouts venomous barbs, fangs or a lashing, scorpion-like tail. On top of all of its other close-combat abilities (including effects for war-gear etc), the model’s close-combat attacks become poisoned, meaning that it will never require a higher roll to wound than 4+. 3 Chameleonic Hide: The model’s skin and armour begin to shift and warp with a dazzling spectrum of hues and colours, allowing it to blend in with its environment. The model gains a cover save of 4+ even when out in the open, and benefits from the stealth ability. 4 Eagle Eyed: The model’s vision becomes unnaturally acute, allowing it to pin-point targets from incredible distances. The model adds 12 inches to the effective range of any shooting attacks it may make. 5 Monstrous Strength: The model’s muscles swell to inhuman proportions, allowing it to break armoured warriors in two as if they were twigs. The model doubles its basic strength characteristic, up to a maximum of ten. 6 Nightmare!: The recipient’s body cannot sustain the random evolutionary imperatives coursing through its cells. One moment, it becomes a writhing mass of octopus-like tentacles, the next it screams its agony through a host of snapping vulture’s beaks. Immediately remove the model(s) and replace it with a Chaos Spawn. It will function as a Chaos Spawn from this point on. If more than one spawn is created in a single unit, then they will function as a newly created Chaos Spawn unit. NOTE: Barring Nightmare, all of the effects listed above wear off at the end of the owning player’s turn. Fires of Change (+25 pts) The recipient’s arms blossom into bizarre organic apertures that constantly dribble and spew the black fires of the Warp. The model may make a shooting attack in the shooting phase in addition to any other shooting attacks it is authorised to make, counting as if it is equipped with either a Heavy Flamer or a Melta-Gun as determined by the owning player at the beginning of the phase. Occult Enlightenment: (+20pts) Tzeentch is the patron of intellectuals and academics, those who strive for the knowledge with which to change and better their lot in life, as well as to advance the general state of their species. Those that dedicate themselves to him are often privy to all manner of forbidden secrets whispered into their minds by his daemon-servants from within the depths of the Warp. Such individuals inevitably learn the means of harnessing the raw energies of change in the manner of psykers or sorcerers, effectively becoming unwitting mediums of Tzeentch’s malign influence in the material plain. Models that benefit from this gift are immediately upgraded to psykers, and may purchase a single psychic power from The Lore of Change. Models that are already psykers/sorcerers have their powers augmented to unnatural extremes, and so gain the ability to cast whatever psychic powers they have without having to take a psychic test first. Gifts of Nurgle Plague Blade (+20 pts) The recipient’s weapon has been touched by Father Nurgle so that it constantly weeps infectious slime and effluence. A single scratch from such a weapon will immediately begin to fester, vile disease spreading throughout the victim’s body until they are reduced to little more than rot within their armour. This reward may be purchased instead of a model’s normal close-combat options. It counts as a power weapon that inflicts instant death for every to-wound roll of a 6 the bearer makes. Cloud of Flies (+14 pts) Many followers of Nurgle act as living hives for swarms of parasitic Warp-flies, the vile creatures swarming from rents in their flesh and armour in the midst of battle, enshrouding them in a buzzing, stinging cloud through which few enemies can bring themselves to progress. Recipients of this gift and any unit they accompany always count as being in cover when they are charged in assault. NOTE that they do not receive a cover save as a result of this gift. Charnel Vapours: (+14 pts) The internal infection and decay that most followers of the Plague Lord suffer often results in their bodies becoming bloated with all manner of toxic, charnel vapours and noisome gasses that cause them to explode with disastrous effect if their necrotic flesh is pierced. If a model with the Charnel Vapours gift is killed, every NONE-NURGLE model (i.e. those without The Mark of Nurgle) in base-contact or engaged with it in close-combat suffer an immediate hit at a strength equal to the model’s toughness characteristic (with all modifiers for war-gear, Marks of Chaos etc applying). Used this recently in a squad of Plague Bearers generated using the daemon rules below. Like most of the upgrades I have created, it is designed to be fun more than anything else, and provided some fitting moments of hilarity during the game in which the deaths of my corpulent daemonic beauties were invariably accompanied by a range of fart-noises. Nurgle’s Rot (+12 pts) Nurgle’s rot is the pinnacle of the Plague Lord’s endeavours; the most foul, agonising and virulent contagion ever to afflict mortal flesh. An unnatural contagion concocted in the Grave-yard realm of Father Nurgle himself, those afflicted by the disease are never free from their suffering, as their souls are inexorably drawn into Father Nurgle’s embrace where they become his Daemonic foot soldiers, his Plague Bearers. Nurgle’s most beloved champions are often charged with carrying the Rot throughout the material universe, bestowing it with generous spirit on all they encounter. This gift functions exactly as described in C:CSM 3.5. Gifts of Slaanesh: 1. Divine Androgyne: (+12pts) Models that charge or are charged by at least one model with this gift in assault must pass a standard leadership test, or suffer –1 WS, I and Ld. 2. Siren Song: (+18 pts) Models with this gift may project it at any enemy OR friendly unit within 12 inches during their own shooting phase instead of firing a weapon. That unit must then pass a standard morale-check, or make an immediate move towards the bearer(s), up to its maximum normal movement rate. NOTE: If more than one model in a unit benefits from this gift, then only one “projection” may be cast per turn, but the range of the power is upgraded by +1 for every model with the gift. 3. Fuelled by Pain: (+18pts) For every wound models with this power receive in close-combat, they may make an additional attack which are resolved after any requisite saving throws have been made, but before any casualties are removed. 4. She Who Thirsts: (+12pts) Every unsaved wound models with this gift inflict in close-combat count as two for the purposes of determining who won the combat. Psychic Powers: Models with the psyker ability in the Chaos Space Marine army list may purchase a single psychic power from the lists below. They may only purchase powers from The Lore of Chaos Undivided or from the Lore of whatever God whose Mark they bear: Lore of Chaos Undivided: Wind of Chaos As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Black Omen (+25pts): Even before their descent into treachery, the Librarians of the Night Lords legion were plagued by the genetic curse of their primarch, suffering spontaneous psychic fits in which they would see the darkest of all possible futures played out before their eyes. Though in most instances a highly debilitating affliction, many have learned to utilise their prophetic capabilities to turn the tides of fate to their advantage. Following their flight to the Eye of Terror, the Sorcerers of various other legions and war-bands have attempted to learn the secrets of the Night Lord’s powers, though there are few with the necessary fortitude and strength of will to endure the Night Haunter’s legacy. The owning sorcerer may test to use this power at the beginning of either the owning player’s turn or the enemy’s. Throughout that turn, the owning player may force a single re-roll of any rolls to hit or wound made against him or any unit he joins/is part of. The second roll must be abided by. Curse of Iron (+20pts): Following their retreat to the Daemon World of Medrengard, the Sorcerer-Artificers of the Iron Warriors used their newfound freedom to conduct a number of blasphemous experiments in which they attempted to create the perfect fusion of sorcery and technology. Save perhaps for the Great Perturabo, primarch of the Iron Warriors himself, few now living know what manner of mechanical nightmares were spawned during these investigations, though it is rumoured that the antecedents of the Obliterator Cult have their origins here. Ultimately, the Iron Warriors created a series of rites by which they might temporarily summon and bind a daemon into the fabric of a vehicle or weapon even in the maelstrom of combat; a technique that sorcerers of other legions and war-bands have been known to go to insane lengths to learn. This power is a weapon that, if cast successfully, the sorcerer may use in his own shooting phase instead of firing another weapon. It has the following profile: Range: 12 inches Strength: 6 AP: 1 Type: Heavy 1, melta. If a penetrating hit is scored against a closed-topped vehicle, do not roll on the vehicle damage table. Instead, the vehicle is temporarily possessed by a daemon. The vehicle may be moved by the chaos player 2D6 inches in a direction determined by the scatter dice, at the end of which it will immediately fire ALL of its weapons ONCE at the closest unit (friend or foe). Rolls of a “Hit” mean that the Chaos Player may choose the direction in which the vehicle moves. Once it has completed this move, any crew must immediately make an EMERGENCY DISEMBARKATION as if the vehicle had been destroyed. Control of the vehicle immediately returns to the owning player following this move. Gift of Chaos: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Daemonancy (+15pts): The Warrior-Priests of the Word Bearers legion were corrupted to the worship of Chaos even before the arch-traitor Horus. Over their long centuries of fanatical service to the Dark Powers, the legion’s sorcerers have become extremely puissant in the arts of daemonic conjuration, utilising their unholy powers to summon entities from the Warp and bind them to their will. As dictated by their unholy faith, they have carried these arts to any and all that would hear, sewing a portion of their own zeal and fanaticism throughout the Traitor Legions and renegade hordes that inhabit The Eye of Terror. This power may be cast in the Chaos player’s shooting phase, instead of firing a weapon. If the sorcerer makes a successful psychic test, then they have succeeded in opening a small rift into Warp-space through which the daemonic hordes might enter the material plain. You may immediately bring D6 of any Summoned Daemon units held in reserve into play as if they were summoned by the casting model. If you so desire, they will immediately scatter D6 inches in a direction chosen by the Chaos Player, and may assault in the following assault-phase as normal. Coils of the Hydra (+20pts): Even before the Heresy, those marines bearing the gene-seed of the primarch Alpharius preferred a strategy of guile and misdirection rather than head-on combat to carry the day. To this end, the Sorcerers of the legion were trained to utilise their psychic potential in the sewing of confusion amongst the enemy forces, afflicting them with barrages of illusions and mirages, planting subtle hypnotic suggestions in their minds that would explode with calamitous consequence at opportune moments. Of all the original Traitor Legions, the Alpha Legion are the least touched by the warping influence of Chaos, maintaining their own unique agendas, not to mention the traditions that defined the legion during its glory-days. As such, those amongst its officers with psychic potential still evidence the same powers and proclivities they did during and before the heresy, though there are many amongst their fellow Traitors who have variously learned or stolen similar techniques. This power may be cast at the beginning of the Chaos player’s assault phase BEFORE any assault-moves are made. The Chaos player may nominate one enemy unit with at least one model within 12 inches of the sorcerer. That unit must take an immediate morale check. If it fails, then it must either count as pinned for the following turn or make an immediate movement at its maximum distance in a direction determined by the scatter dice. NOTE: If a “Hit” is rolled, the Chaos player may elect a direction. Lore of Change: Powers of Tzeentch Only models with The Mark of Tzeentch may purchase powers from the following list in accordance with the rules and restrictions defined in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Bolt of Change (+25pts): As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines but additionally, if any non-vehicle model becomes a casualty as a result of The Bolt of Change, do not remove them immediately. Instead, place the small blast-marker centred over them. Any models under the template will suffer an immediate “hit” with a strength value equal to that of the casualty model (this reflects the model spontaneously mutating, temporarily becoming a mindless, hissing mass of maws, claws and tendrils), whereas those partially under the template will receive a hit on a D6 roll of 4+. The Key (+30pts): During Abaddon the Despoiler’s Thirteenth Black Crusade, the Arch-Sorcerer Ahriman plundered the Eldar Web-Way, learning secrets lost even to the descendants of those that constructed it. Having temporarily returned to the Planet of Sorcerers bearing this knowledge, there are now a number of Magnus the Red’s progeny at large who are able to access the shifting Warp-ways at will, able to disappear from battle and seemingly re-appear in the blink of an eye at another, more felicitous location. Sorcerers with this power may cast it in their own movement phase instead of making a standard move. They and a single friendly unit (if they are part of a unit then it must be that unit) within 6 inches are immediately removed from play, and may be returned to the battlefield at the beginning of the following turn in accordance with the “Deep Strike” special rule. The Great Manipulator (As per Lash of Submission): Tzeentch is the Grand Manipulator, the Puppet Master who delights in directing the thoughts and actions of mortals, guiding them towards outcomes that better suit the Dark God’s own unfathomable designs. Many of his most favoured servants display similar tendencies, and often become the instruments by which Tzeentch manipulates the tangled threads of destiny. To these cruel and mercurial individuals, mortal minds are but play-things to tinker with and take apart; toys and instruments of less consequence than the weapons they wield, or war-machines with which they grind their enemies into the dirt. This power functions exactly as The Lash of Submission power as detailed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. NOTE: The most useful psychic power in the Codex, possibly in the whole game, should definitely be reserved of Tzeentch, the ultimate incarnation of sorcery, don’t you think? To my mind, the Slaaneshi psychic powers should be much more subtle and ambiguous, as you will see in The Lore of Pain and Pleasure below. Eldritch Holocaust (INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS ONLY +30pts): The Sorcerers of Tzeentch are amongst the most psychically puissant and destructive individuals in the known galaxy, able to manipulate the raw energy of the Warp with a skill rivalled only by the ancient Farseers of the Eldar. The powers they manifest however, being derived from the lunatic stuff of Chaos itself, are much less refined and predictable. In extremis, they have been known to unleash spells of apocalyptic potency, summoning magical storms that rain fire and technicolour lightning upon the battlefield, causing the earth to churn and erupt with geysers of molten rock. This power may be cast in the shooting phase instead of firing another weapon. If the psychic test is successful, place the large blast marker anywhere within 12 inches of the sorcerer and line of sight then roll the scatter dice. The template will immediately move 2D6 inches in the indicated direction (unless a HIT is rolled, in which case it stays where it is). Any models (enemy or otherwise) completely or partially under the template immediately suffer a strength D6+3 hit at AP D6. Once all wounds have been calculated, roll a D6. The template will now make that many random moves, each time moving 2D6 inches. After every move, any models beneath the template are affected as above. Vehicles affected by the power will receive a strength D6+3 hit to a random location determined by the scatter dice (a HIT means that the casting player chooses the location). If the sorcerer fails his psychic test, instead of the power simply not working, the template will first be placed DIRECTLY OVER HIM then the process followed as normal. The Lore of Decay: Powers of Nurgle Stream of Corruption (+25pts): The sorcerer’s disease-bloated gut heaves and contracts as it vomits forth a stream of maggots, pus and other vile effluence over its foes. This power may be cast in the chaos player’s shooting phase instead of firing another weapon. It has the following profile: Range: Flamer Template Strength: 7 AP: 6 Type: Heavy 1, Pinning. Miasma of Pestilence (+20pts) The sorcerer is surrounded by a cloud of stinking, noxious fumes that blisters the throat and induces crippling nausea in any that come within proximity. The power may be cast at the beginning of either the Chaos player’s turn or the enemy’s. If successful, any enemy unit with a model that approaches within 6 inches of the caster throughout that turn must pass an immediate pinning check at –2 Ld or count as pinned. Aura of Decay (+25pts) In its most elemental aspect, Nurgle’s power is derived from those forces that hold in check growth and evolution; the inevitable decay to which all living things are condemned. Many of his mortal servants are charged with furthering the Dark God’s ultimate agenda of reducing the material universe to little more than a galactic cess-pool of rot and filth, their very presence causing the air to curdle, water to stagnate and living things to age and rot. The power may be cast in the Chaos player’s movement phase, before any movement has taken place. If successful, any enemy unit with a model that comes within 6 inches of the sorcerer throughout that turn will immediately suffer-1 strength and toughness until the beginning of the next. Vehicles that come within 6 inches of the caster will suffer –1 to their armour values (down to a minimum of 10) until the beginning of the next turn. The Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Powers of Slaanesh Taste Our Pleasures (+12pts) The followers of Slaanesh are infamous for deriving unholy delight from even the most base or bizarre experiences. Many of his servants blessed with psychic potential are often charged with bringing similar enlightenment to their foes, psychically heightening their senses to the point where even the chafing of armour or clothing against skin induces crippling extremes of sensation. This power may be cast in the owning player’s shooting phase instead of firing another weapon. Nominate any enemy or friendly unit with at least one model within 12 inches and line of sight of the sorcerer. That unit must pass a standard leadership test. If it fails then it will immediately become Fearless for the remainder of the phase. Any attacks made against models in the unit whilst they remain Fearless will automatically wound on a 2+ regardless of relative strength/toughness. Rapture (+18pts) Slaanesh’s sorcerous servants are often surrounded by a supernatural glamour that makes them appear as one loved or cherished by those that face them in combat. Even some of the most hardened warriors have found their limbs growing limp and their swords falling from their fingers as they come face to face with forgotten lovers, friends or relatives, only for the embrace they stumble into to prove deadly indeed. The power may be cast at the beginning of the enemy’s assault phase, before any assault-moves have been made. Any enemy that charges the caster or any unit he accompanies must immediately pass a standard leadership test. If they fail, then they may make NO attacks that turn. The sorcerer and any unit he accompanies may attack as normal. Delicious Excruciation (+25pts) The sorcerer psychically drives his opponents into a sadomasochistic frenzy of self-mutilation, those without the will to resist taking weapon to their own flesh and that of their comrades as they are utterly overcome by the Dark Prince’s delights. The power may be cast in the owning player’s shooting phase instead of firing another weapon. Nominate a single enemy unit with at least one model within 12 inches and line of sight. That unit must pass a standard leadership test, or immediately resolve a full quota of attacks against itself as if it had charged into assault. All abilities conferred by special rules, weapons etc apply. Any models in the targeted unit that survive gain the Feel no Pain ability until the end of the turn. Vehicle Upgrades: Amendments/Additions Having perused the various vehicle upgrades available to Chaos in the past, and taken into serious consideration the comments made about them on this board, it has become apparent to me that, though much more characterful in past editions of Codex: Chaos Space Marines, they have never been handled particularly well in terms of gaming mechanics. It is for that reason that I have decided the scrap the entire Vehicle Upgrades entry in my original post and start from scratch. NOTE: The upgrades listed below function IN ADDITION to those already listed in the current Codex: Chaos Space Marines Armoury. Unholy Icon: · Daubed with dark canticles and sigils sacred to Chaos, the vehicle is a mobile altar to the Dark Powers, serving to bolster the morale of their worshippers whilst simultaneously sapping the resolve of any that oppose them. Enemy units with models within 12 inches and line of sight to the vehicle always count as being below half-strength for the purposes of any morale checks they have to make, whereas friendly units always count as being at full strength regardless of what losses they have incurred. Blasphemous Engine: Characteristic of the machines and war-engines deployed by the Iron Warriors legion, vehicles with this upgrade are suffused by a strange technomancy that allows them to repair damage in the manner of living flesh. They gain the Repair special ability if they do not have it (as detailed in the Rhino transport entry of the new codex). Vehicles that already benefit from the ability will repair themselves on a D6 roll of 5+ instead of only 6. Daemonic Aura: Much like the immortal denizens of the Warp, the vehicle is surrounded by a shimmering aura of energies that cause energy beams to dissipate and shells to explode harmlessly in mid-air. The vehicle gains a 5+ invulnerable save against any glancing or penetrating hits it suffers. Roll for the save before any rolls are made on the vehicle damage tables. If successful, no rolls are made. Living Vehicle: The vehicle is covered in all manner of bizarre gargoyles that rip and tear at those that come within reach. The vehicle gains D6 WS 4, Strength 4 attacks that may be made at I4 against any enemy models that engage it in assault. Destroyer of Khorne: Vehicles benefiting from this upgrade may only transport models with The Mark of Khorne or Chaos Undivided. Outfitted with all manner of slashing blades, saws and other vile instruments of slaughter, the vehicle is a gore-stained mobile temple to the Blood God. The vehicle gains a WS, S and I of 3 plus 3 Attacks and may assault in the same manner as a Dreadnought instead of making a conventional “Tank Shock” move. It may also use these attacks to defend itself if assaulted. Dreadnoughts and Defilers fitted with a Destroyer may make a single re-roll of any missed “To-Hit” rolls in close-combat. Tzeentchian Warp-Flame: Vehicles with this upgrade may only transport models with The Mark of Tzeentch or Chaos Undivided. The vehicle’s hull constantly crawls and shifts with gibbering daemonic faces that whisper sorcerous incantations and exhale gouts of technicolour warp-flame. At the end of every move the vehicle makes, roll a D6. It will immediately make the indicated number of shots (that have the same profile as Heavy Flamer attacks) from random locations (i.e. FRONT, LEFT SIDE, RIGHT SIDE or REAR) determined by the scatter dice (roll the scatter dice for each individual shot. If a “Hit” is rolled, the owning player may choose which location the shot is made from). NOTE: I recently used this upgrade in a battle against my regular gaming partner, and it is HILARIOUS fun. The trick is keeping the upgraded vehicle away from your own units and barrelling it towards the enemy lines. Nurgle Plague Carrier: Vehicles with this upgrade may only transport models with the Mark of Nurgle or Chaos Undivided. The vehicle is a mobile plague-pit, seeping with filth and infectious slime, festooned with all manner of boils, growths and distensions. It counts as having the Nurgle’s Rot Gift of the Gods as detailed in C:CSM 3.5. Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome: Vehicles with this upgrade may only transport models with The Mark of Slaanesh or Chaos Undivided. Unlike the war-engines of other Traitor Marines, those dedicated to Slaanesh are elaborately decorated mobile works of art, their hulls carved and painted with baroque frescoes (more often than not depicting the epic debaucheries of those being transported within) and draped with lengths of rich materials such as silk and leather. Some sport arrays of organ-like pipes that constantly emit contradictions of beautiful symphony and monstrous noise, others are festooned with ingenious instruments of torture such as hooked chains, wickedly curved and serrated blades and spools of razor-wire. Any enemy unit with at least one model that approaches within charge range of a vehicle upgraded to a Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome must charge it in assault, even if there are any more desirable targets within range. NOTE: If there is more than one vehicle in range with this power, the Chaos Player may determine which is charged. The Army List: The following are revisions and changes made to the existing Chaos Space Marine army list. NOTE: Where a particular option, special rule or entry isn’t listed, simply assume that it functions as detailed in C:CSM (4.0). HQ Chaos Lord War-Gear Options: Gifts of the Gods: A Chaos Lord may purchase up to two Gifts of the Gods under the rules and restrictions detailed above. Marks of Chaos: In addition to the Marks it may purchase in C:CSM (4.0), a Chaos Lord may also purchase The Mark of Chaos Undivided for +20pts. Servo-Arm: A SINGLE Chaos Lord per army may be upgraded with a Servo-Arm for +20pts, thus counting as a War-Smith. Daemon Weapons: A Chaos Lord may only purchase a Daemon Weapon if he has a Mark of Chaos (including the Mark of Chaos Undivided as detailed above). Special Rules: Retinue: Chaos Lords are traditionally accompanied into battle by a retinue of their finest and most trusted brethren, their function as much to guard against the machinations of over-ambitious underlings as to defend their Master in combat. A Chaos Lord may be accompanied by a dedicated retinue of Traitor Legionnaires selected as normal from the Chaos Space Marine Army List. If he is equipped with Terminator Armour, then he may be accompanied by a retinue of Chaos Space Marine Terminators. Chaos Sorcerer Equipment: Chaos Sorcerers replace their Force Staffs with Corrupted Force Staffs that function as detailed in the Hell-Forge section above. War-Gear Options: A Chaos Sorcerer may replace his Corrupted Force Staff with either a Power-Weapon or Power-Fist for free, or exchange all the weapons he carries for a pair of Lightning Claws for +10pts. Gifts of the Gods: A Chaos Sorcerer may purchase up to two Gifts of the Gods under the rules and restrictions detailed above. Servo-Arm: A Chaos Sorcerer may be equipped with a Servo-Arm for +20pts, effectively becoming a Technomancer. Special Rules: Daemonic Pacts: Many of those psykers that come to regard themselves as “sorcerers” eschew the caution favoured by their less-enlightened brethren, forging numerous bargains or “pacts” with the immortal denizens of Warp-Space in return for forbidden knowledge or a bolstering of their already considerable powers. The most accomplished Chaos Sorcerers (such as Chief Librarian Ahriman of the Thousand Sons) are able to bind many hundreds of daemonic vassals to their service, safe in the knowledge that only the most puissant and cunning of immortals can best them. Those that lack the necessary intelligence and strength of will often find their physical forms infested by the beings they attempt to broker alliance with, becoming vessels for unnatural intelligences that use their temporary sheaths of flesh to wreak havoc on the material plain. A Chaos Sorcerer may choose to fuel any psychic power he casts per turn with a Daemonic Pact. If he chooses this option, then he make a SINGLE re-roll of the subsequent psychic test should he suffer a miscast or a Perils of the Warp attack. However, should he fail the re-roll, then his body will become host to a daemon from the Warp. The model will now move in a random direction in each one of the owning player’s turns as if equipped with the Wings Gift of the Gods (to simulate the fact that he now levitates on threads of empyrean energy). He will immediately cast every offensive psychic power he has ONCE at a single unit within range (chosen by the owning player) at the end of this move. He will then automatically charge into assault with any unit (friend or foe) within assault range, chosen by the owning player. For every turn he remains in this state, roll a standard leadership test for the model. If he succeeds, then the sorcerer suffers an immediate wound (with NO saves of any kind applying) and functions normally from that point on. If he fails, then possession will continue until he can roll a successful leadership test, he is killed, or the game ends. Retinue: - As per the Chaos Lord entry above. Design Note: The essential motivation behind the changes I have made to Chaos Sorcerers was to differentiate them in some ways from their loyalist counterparts whilst also augmenting their chaotic destructive potential in keeping with their representation in the background. Used these rules in a recent game with my Slaaneshi Serpent’s Children Chaos Marines, in which my sorcerer went ballistic in the second turn of combat and successfully cast BOTH Rapture and Taste Our Pleasures against my expensive Noise Terminator unit. Great hilarity was experienced by all. Daemon Prince 0-1 War-Gear Options: Gifts of the Gods: A Daemon Prince may purchase up to three Gifts of the Gods as detailed above. Special Rules: Daemonic Retinue: Daemon Princes are the most favoured servants of the Dark Gods, and as such are often accompanied into battle by a cohort of daemonic body guards that are bound to their will. The Daemonic retinue essentially consists of a unit of Summoned Lesser Daemons that MUST purchase the same Mark as the Daemon Prince and may be summoned to the battlefield by him at any point during the owning players turn. In a change from the usual daemon summoning rules, the daemons are set up in unit coherency with the Daemon Prince, and MUST maintain unit coherency with him at all times. NOTE: IF the Daemon Prince has the Wings gift of the gods, then the any daemons in his retinue must purchase the gift as well. If the Daemon Prince is destroyed or removed from the battlefield for ANY reason, then so are all the models in his Daemonic Retinue, and they count as having being killed for VP purposes. Elites: Traitor Legionnaires: NOTE: Traitor Legionnaires are a replacement for “Chosen” Chaos Space Marines. They have the same stats and options as Chosen with the following amendments: WS: 5 I: 5 Ld: 10 War-Gear Options: The usual close-combat weapons options (i.e. the ability to purchase power weapons, power-fists and lightning claws) are removed, and replaced with the option to upgrade any number of Traitor Legionnaires to Aspiring Champions for the listed points cost. NOTE that Traitor Legionnaire Aspiring Champions have the same weapons options as Chaos Space Marine Aspiring Champions, and may also purchase Twin Lightning Claws for the same points cost as a Raptor Champion. Gifts of the Gods: Traitor Legionnaire Aspiring Champions may purchase a single Gift of the Gods depending on what Mark of Chaos they bear as detailed above. Special Rules: Fearless. The Long War: The Long War: Some Chaos Space Marine forces do not consist of rag tag pirates and renegades, rather they are mighty fleets and war hosts that consist of veterans that have fought for decades, often centuries in service to the Dark Gods (or their own twisted ambitions). Some even originate from the dark days of the Horus Heresy itself. In an army led by a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince, Traitor Legionnaires may count as either troops or elites on the Force Organisation Chart. Chaos Terminators NOTE: Only the strongest, most cunning, brutal and skilled warriors from amongst the warriors of Chaos gain the honour of wearing a suit of Terminator armour. As such their WS and I stats are increased by +1. War-Gear Options: Gifts of the Gods: Terminator Aspiring Champions may purchase a single Gift of the Gods as detailed above. Special Rules: Fearless NOTE: As a result of the changes listed here, Chaos Terminators cost +6 pts more per model than listed in the codex. Possessed: War-Gear: Owing to their various claws, talons, spines and whatnot, Possessed Chaos Space Marines count as being armed with TWO close combat weapons as standard. Special Rules Additions/Revisions: Daemonkin: The random table in Codex: Chaos Space Marines is removed entirely and instead, Possessed may purchase a SINGLE Gift of the Gods from the lists below, depending on what Mark of Chaos they have. NOTE: All members of the unit MUST purchase the SAME Gift. Gifts of Chaos Undivided (no Mark or Mark of Chaos Undivided): Gift of the Flesh: +10 pts per model Razor-Talons: +10 pts per model Daemon Fire: +10pts per model Unholy Horror: +3 pts per model Wings: +10 pts per model Unholy Strength: +5 pts per model. Gifts of Khorne (Mark of Khorne): Axe of Khorne: +8pts per model Blood-Thirst: +8pts per model Chaos Armour: +10pts per model Collar of Khorne: +3pts per model. Gifts of Tzeentch (Mark of Tzeentch) Body of Flame: +6pts per model. Evolutionary Nightmare: +9pts per model Fires of Change: +12 pts per model. Occult Enlightenment: +12pts per model. NOTE: If you choose this as your upgrade for a unit of Possessed Chaos Space Marines, then any number of models from the unit may purchase it rather than the whole unit being required to. This effectively stops the unit from becoming needlessly expensive with the need to purchase duplicate psychic powers in order to make it viable, whilst those that do benefit from it may benefit the unit as a whole with powers such as the Key or Bolt of Change. Gifts of Nurgle (Mark of Nurgle) Plague Blade: +12pts per model Cloud of Flies: +10 pts per model Charnel Vapours: +7pts per model Nurgle’s Rot: +7pts per model. Gifts of Slaanesh (Mark of Slaanesh): Divine Androgyne: +6 pts per model Siren Song: +10pts per model Fuelled by Pain: +12 pts per model She Who Thirsts: +10pts per model Khorne Berserkers: War-Gear Options: All Khorne Berserkers in a unit may choose to replace their close-combat weapons with Khornate Chain Weapons at a cost of +8pts per model. Khornate Chain Weapons count as close combat weapons that bestow +1 strength. Skull Champions may purchase a single Gift of the Gods from either the Gifts of Chaos Undivided or the Gifts of Khorne. Special Rules: Chosen of the Gods: Khorne Berserkers count as Elites choices on the Force Organisation Chart unless the army is led by a character with The Mark of Khorne, in which instance they count as Troops choices. Thousand Sons: War-Gear Options: Aspiring Sorcerers may purchase a single Gift of the Gods from either the Gifts of Chaos Undivided or the Gifts of Tzeentch. Special Rules: Chosen of the Gods: Thousand Sons count as Elites choices on the Force Organisation Chart unless the army is led by a character with The Mark of Tzeentch, in which instance they count as Troops choices. Plague Marines: War-Gear Options: Plague Champions may purchase a single Gift of the Gods from either the Gifts of Chaos Undivided or the Gifts of Nurgle. Special Rules: Chosen of the Gods: Plague Marines count as Elites choices on the Force Organisation Chart unless the army is led by a character with The Mark of Nurgle, in which instance they count as Troops choices. Noise Marines: (now 22pts per model to account for their Hit and Run capability). War-Gear Options: Any number of Noise Marines may replace their bolters with Sonic Blasters at a cost of +6pts per model. Up to TWO Noise Marines per unit may exchange their bolters for Blast Masters at a cost of +25pts per model. Noise Champions may purchase a single Gift of the Gods from either the Gifts of Chaos Undivided or the Gifts of Slaanesh. Special Rules: Dance of Delight: Noise Marines are lunatic warriors that dance and whirl around the battlefield in a delirious ballet, gifting their enemies with choice strokes and caresses from their obscenely decorated blades before moving onto the next opponent. They count as having the Hit and Run special rule. Chosen of the Gods: Noise Marines count as Elites choices on the Force Organisation Chart unless the army is led by a character with The Mark of Slaanesh, in which instance they count as Troops choices. 2.Chaos Dreadnought: Special Rules Additions/Revisions: When a dreadnought suffers from Blood Rage, it now gains +D6 attacks. Options Additions/Revisions: A Chaos Dreadnought may be upgraded with Daemonic Possession, an Unholy Icon, a Havoc Missile Launcher, the Blasphemous Engine upgrade and/or become a Living Vehicle for +20 pts. It may also be upgraded with a Destroyer of Khorne OR Tzeentchian Warp Flame for +25pts, OR become a Nurgle Plague Carrier OR Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome for +15 pts. Slaaneshi Sonic Weapons: If the Dreadnought is upgraded to a Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome, then it may purchase an arm incorporating a Blast Master instead of one of the more conventional heavy weapons for +25 pts. A single twin-linked bolter may be upgraded to a Doom Siren for +6pts. Troops: Chaos Space Marines War-Gear Options: The caveat stating that Chaos Space Marine squads must number ten or more models in order to purchase a secondary special or heavy weapon is REMOVED (Traitor Marines DO NOT adhere to the bleedin’ Codex Astartes, alright?). In addition, the Aspiring Champion may exchange his bolt pistol and close-combat weapon for Twin Lightning Claws for the same points cost as a Raptor Champion. Gifts of the Gods: The Aspiring Champion may purchase a single Gift of the Gods as detailed above. Design Note: The following two unit entries (Chaos Cultists and Mutants) DO NOT occupy any slots on the Force Organisation Chart, and MAY NOT be taken as compulsory Troops choices in the same manner as Chaos Spawn or Summoned Lesser Daemons. Chaos Cultist Coven Statistics: WS 3 BS 3 S 3 T 3 W 1 I 2 A 1 Ld 6 Sv 6+ Pts Per Model 8 Unit type: Infantry Number/Squad: 10-30 War-Gear: Las-Pistols (that function exactly as detailed in Codex: Imperial Guard), close-combat weapons, Frag and Krak grenades. Options: A single Cultist may be upgraded to a Daemagogue for +8pts. The Daemagogue has exactly the same statistics as a standard Cultist plus +1A. He may exchange his close-combat weapon for either a power-weapon at +10pts or a power-fist at +12pts. He may also purchase a single Gift of the Gods in accordance with the usual restrictions. A single member of a Chaos Cultist Coven may be upgraded to an Icon Bearer and carry the Icon of a specific Chaos Power for the same points cost as a Chaos Space Marine Unit. For every ten models in the Coven, up to two cultists may be upgraded with a Heavy or Special weapon from the following list for the same points cost as a Chaos Space Marine unit: Heavy Bolter Las-Cannon Missile Launcher Melta-Gun Flamer Plasma Gun Mutant Horde WS 3 BS 2 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 3 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 6+ Pts Per Model 12 Unit Type: Infantry Number/Squad: 10-30 War-Gear: Horns, talons, teeth, tentacles…practically anything you can imagine. Options: A single member of a Mutant Horde may be upgraded to an Icon Bearer and bear the Icon of a specific Chaos Power for the points costs listed above. All members of a Mutant Horde may be upgraded with up to TWO Gifts of the Gods from the lists below, depending on which Mark of Chaos they bear. All members of the Horde must take the same gifts, and no gift may be purchased more than once. Gifts of Chaos Undivided (no Mark or Mark of Chaos Undivided): Gift of the Flesh: +10 pts per model Razor-Talons: +10 pts per model Daemon Fire: +10pts per model Unholy Horror: +3 pts per model Wings: +10 pts per model Unholy Strength: +5 pts per model. Gifts of Khorne (Mark of Khorne): Axe of Khorne: +8pts per model Blood-Thirst: +8pts per model Chaos Armour: +10pts per model Collar of Khorne: +3pts per model. Gifts of Tzeentch (Mark of Tzeentch) Body of Flame: +6pts per model. Evolutionary Nightmare: +9pts per model Fires of Change: +12 pts per model. Occult Enlightenment: +12pts per model. NOTE: If you choose this as your upgrade for a unit of Mutants, then any number of models from the unit may purchase it rather than the whole unit being required to. This effectively stops the unit from becoming needlessly expensive with the need to purchase duplicate psychic powers in order to make it viable, whilst those that do benefit from it may benefit the unit as a whole with powers such as the Key or Bolt of Change. Gifts of Nurgle (Mark of Nurgle) Plague Blade: +12pts per model Cloud of Flies: +10 pts per model Charnel Vapours: +7pts per model Nurgle’s Rot: +7pts per model. Gifts of Slaanesh (Mark of Slaanesh): Divine Androgyne: +6 pts per model Siren Song: +10pts per model Fuelled by Pain: +12 pts per model She Who Thirsts: +10pts per model Chaos Space Marine Rhino: Options Additions/Revisions: A Chaos Rhino may be upgraded with Daemonic Possession, an Unholy Icon, a Havoc Missile Launcher, the Blasphemous Engine upgrade and/or become a Living Vehicle for +20 pts. It may also be upgraded with a Destroyer of Khorne OR Tzeentchian Warp Flame for +25pts, OR become a Nurgle Plague Carrier OR Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome for +15 pts. Fast Attack: Chaos Space Marine Bikers: War-Gear Options: The Aspiring Champion may replace his bolt pistol and close-combat weapon for Twin Lightning Claws for the same points cost as a Raptor Champion. Gifts of the Gods: The Aspiring Champion may purchase a single Gift of the Gods as detailed above. Raptors: Special Rules: Hit and Run (for which each Raptor costs +2pts more than listed). Raptor Shriek: All Raptors automatically have the Unholy Horror Gift of the Gods. Gifts of the Gods: A Raptor Champion may purchase a single Gift of the Gods as detailed above. Heavy Support: Chaos Havocs: War-Gear Options: The Aspiring Champion may exchange his bolt-pistol and close-combat weapon with Twin Lightning Claws for the same points cost as a Raptor Champion. Gifts of the Gods: The Aspiring Champion may purchase a single Gift of the Gods as detailed above. Chaos Obliterators: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 5 W 2 I 2 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 2+/5+ Pts Per Model 80 Special Rules: Hulking Leviathans: Chaos Obliterators are monstrous, shambling hulks, easily capable of pulping men in their massive fists or tearing through the hull of an armoured battle tank. They count as Monstrous Creatures. In addition, though they may teleport onto the battlefield as a unit, each Obliterator essentially counts as an independent model from that point on for the purposes of movement, target acquisition, etc. Design Note: Obliterators were one of the few “new” elements introduced with the original third ed Chaos Codex that I actually liked, though their rules have never accurately represented their depiction in the background. The 3.5 codex went some way to addressing this, but still didn’t quite hit the mark, then the 4.0 Codex dragged them right back down into the mire, maintaining a stupidly high points cost and deficits such as Slow and Purposeful for miniatures that can easily die within a single round of bolter fire. The above changes hopefully go some way to bringing Obliterators somewhat closer to what they are as depicted in the background. Chaos Predator: Options Additions/Revisions: A Chaos Predator may be upgraded with Daemonic Possession, an Unholy Icon, a Havoc Missile Launcher, the Blasphemous Engine upgrade and/or become a Living Vehicle for +20 pts. It may also be upgraded with a Destroyer of Khorne OR Tzeentchian Warp Flame for +25pts, OR become a Nurgle Plague Carrier OR Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome for +15 pts. If upgraded to a Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome, it may upgrade its turret-mounted auto-cannon to a Blast Master for free, and may purchase twin-linked Sonic Blaster side-sponsons for +12pts each . Chaos Vindicator: Options Additions/Revisions: A Chaos Vindicator may be upgraded with Daemonic Possession, an Unholy Icon, a Havoc Missile Launcher, the Blasphemous Engine upgrade and/or become a Living Vehicle for +20 pts. It may also be upgraded with a Destroyer of Khorne OR Tzeentchian Warp Flame for +25pts, OR become a Nurgle Plague Carrier OR Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome for +15 pts. Chaos Defiler: Options Additions/Revisions: A Chaos Defiler may be upgraded with an Unholy Icon, a Havoc Missile Launcher, the Blasphemous Engine upgrade and/or become a Living Vehicle for +20 pts. It may also be upgraded with a Destroyer of Khorne OR Tzeentchian Warp Flame for +25pts, OR become a Nurgle Plague Carrier OR Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome for +15 pts. If upgraded to a Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome, it may upgrade its Reaper Auto-cannon to a Blast Master for +6pts. Chaos Land Raider: Options Additions/Revisions: A Chaos Land Raider may be upgraded with Daemonic Possession, an Unholy Icon, a Havoc Missile Launcher, the Blasphemous Engine upgrade and/or become a Living Vehicle for +20 pts. It may also be upgraded with a Destroyer of Khorne OR Tzeentchian Warp Flame for +25pts, OR become a Nurgle Plague Carrier OR Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome for +15 pts. If upgraded to a Slaaneshi Pleasure Dome, the land-raider may replace its twin-linked heavy-bolters with twin linked Sonic Blasters for free, and upgrade its twin-linked lascannon sponsons to twin-linked Blast Masters for free. Daemons: Greater Daemons (112pts) Greater Daemons have the same basic rules and statistics as detailed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, along with the additions and revisions detailed below: Special Rules: Masters of the Warp: Greater Daemons are amongst the most powerful, complex and coherent entities that prowl that insubstantial other-realm that humans call The Warp. As such, they are able to summon and manipulate its energies with a mastery that only the most aged and accomplished of mortal psykers can equal. All Greater Daemons (barring those with The Mark of Khorne) are psykers who may purchase as many psychic powers as they wish from the lists detailed above (depending upon which Mark of Chaos they bear). In addition, should they ever suffer from a Perils of the Warp attack, the power they were attempting to cast will not function, but they will suffer no wounds. Options: A Greater Daemon may purchase a single Mark of Chaos for the points cost listed above. In addition, they may purchase up to two Gifts of the Gods depending upon which Mark of Chaos they bear from the appropriate section of the Chaos Space Marine Armoury. A Greater Daemon may be upgraded with Daemonic Armour for +20 pts. This grants the Greater Daemon a 3+ armour save, in addition to its 4+ Daemonic Aura. NOTE: Using this system effectively allows Chaos Players to recreate any of the established Greater Daemons they wish (e.g. The Bloodthirster of Khorne or Slaanesh’s Keeper of Secrets) whilst also exercising their imaginations and concocting their own unique entities and even minor Chaos Powers. Summoned Lesser Daemons Summoned Daemons have the same basic stats and special rules as detailed in C:CSM (4.0). In addition, they benefit from the following options and special rules: Options: Icons of Chaos: A single daemon per unit may be upgraded to an Icon Bearer and carry one of the Icons of Chaos in the same manner and for the same points cost as a standard Chaos Space Marine squad. Gifts of the Gods: In addition to their other abilities, a unit of daemons may be upgraded with up to two abilities from the lists below. All daemons in the unit must have the same gifts, and no gift may be purchased more than once. Models may only purchase gifts of Chaos Undivided and gifts of the god whose Mark they bear: Gifts of Chaos Undivided (no Mark or Mark of Chaos Undivided): Gift of the Flesh: +10 pts per model Razor-Talons: +10 pts per model Daemon Fire: +10pts per model Unholy Horror: +3 pts per model Wings: +10 pts per model Unholy Strength: +5 pts per model. Gifts of Khorne (Mark of Khorne): Axe of Khorne: +8pts per model Blood-Thirst: +8pts per model Chaos Armour: +10pts per model Collar of Khorne: +3pts per model. Gifts of Tzeentch (Mark of Tzeentch) Body of Flame: +6pts per model. Evolutionary Nightmare: +9pts per model Fires of Change: +12 pts per model. Occult Enlightenment: +12pts per model. NOTE: If you choose this as your upgrade for a unit of Daemons, then any number of models from the unit may purchase it rather than the whole unit being required to. This effectively stops the unit from becoming needlessly expensive with the need to purchase duplicate psychic powers in order to make it viable, whilst those that do benefit from it may benefit the unit as a whole with powers such as the Key or Bolt of Change. Gifts of Nurgle (Mark of Nurgle) Plague Blade: +12pts per model Cloud of Flies: +10 pts per model Charnel Vapours: +7pts per model Nurgle’s Rot: +7pts per model. Gifts of Slaanesh (Mark of Slaanesh): Divine Androgyne: +6 pts per model Siren Song: +10pts per model Fuelled by Pain: +12 pts per model She Who Thirsts: +10pts per model Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2286144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbiter Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 @Chaplain B: As an Alpha Legion player myself, I'd be happy just being able to include a unit of Chosen in my Troops selection. Right there I think that would be an excellent flavor for an AL force without being too overpowering. @all in general: If Ancient Enemies was brought back, I'd suggest the Black Legion's ability being able to ignore it, so that people who want a force with all four Chaos powers in it can have it, and to reflect Abaddon's ability as Warmaster of Chaos. (In fact, that might work as an Abaddon-specific special ability.) @Dammeron: Sorry man, just speaking for myself...I couldn't get through the sheer overwhelming text you posted. My eyes started to swim about halfway through from information overload. B) I managed to follow the 3.5 dex with no problems, but I think you may be going beyond that a bit with proposed rules complexity. Kudos for the effort, though, I think your heart's in the right place, it was just a little too overcomplicated for my personal taste. EDIT: @Dammeron: Just to make sure there was no Internet misunderstanding, Dammeron, I thought your effort was quite commendable, and you had some good ideas...I just felt it was a bit too lengthy and over-complex to take in during a single read-through. Wanted to make sure you understood no snark or disrespect was intended. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2286361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 @Chaplain B: As an Alpha Legion player myself, I'd be happy just being able to include a unit of Chosen in my Troops selection. Right there I think that would be an excellent flavor for an AL force without being too overpowering. @all in general: If Ancient Enemies was brought back, I'd suggest the Black Legion's ability being able to ignore it, so that people who want a force with all four Chaos powers in it can have it, and to reflect Abaddon's ability as Warmaster of Chaos. (In fact, that might work as an Abaddon-specific special ability.) @Dammeron: Sorry man, just speaking for myself...I couldn't get through the sheer overwhelming text you posted. My eyes started to swim about halfway through from information overload. :( I managed to follow the 3.5 dex with no problems, but I think you may be going beyond that a bit with proposed rules complexity. Kudos for the effort, though, I think your heart's in the right place, it was just a little too overcomplicated for my personal taste. EDIT: @Dammeron: Just to make sure there was no Internet misunderstanding, Dammeron, I thought your effort was quite commendable, and you had some good ideas...I just felt it was a bit too lengthy and over-complex to take in during a single read-through. Wanted to make sure you understood no snark or disrespect was intended. :) NP at all Wolfbiter; I haven't touched or looked at this codex for a long, long time. It is in serious need of refinement, primarily in terms of its presentation. I'm pleased with the way it plays: the individual rules seem to work quite well, but it needs to be presented a little more coherently ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192012-what-can-be-done-to-improve-chaos/page/2/#findComment-2286680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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