making bikes work

[Demoulius]

dea brothers,

 

im lately trying to make a bike squad and 2 MM-attack bikes work in a 1500 pts list but im at a loss. the attack bikes sometimes get 1 shot off before dying a horrible horrible death (both squads are independant btw) the bikes squad has 2 meltaguns and a PF. but likewise, sometimes i try to shoot with them, kill something (if im lucky) and then the die horribly when somethings shoots back or assaults them...

 

has anyone got any tips or tactics that i can try?

[glayvin34]

Clearly your opponent(s) are aware of the threat that the bikes represent. So you can try turbo boosting, that grants a cover save to protect you from shooting, but otherwise bikes are fairly vulnerable to assault because they have few models in a squad and not too many attacks.

 

I would try pairing them up with something else fast attack-like, so that your opponent must choose between going after the bikes or your drop pod full of Sternguard, 10-man assault squad, teleporting terminators, or some other significant threat. That way, at least if your bikes get taken out, some other part of your army gets through unscathed or less scathed.

 

What are you having them do and what else is in your army?

[Demoulius]

i tend to keep my squads together with a rhino filled with tacticals, assault squad behind. i ussually flank stuff with the attack bikes, sometimes turbo boost the first turn and hope i get to attack within melta range the 2nd turn, but they hardly ever get to attack.

 

i dont think ive seen any game yet in which they survived past turn 2.... (granted i dont expect a 50 pts unit to make gamechanging events on its own...but it would be nice if it would from time to time :P)

 

just used the bike squads in a few games total, last game they bogged down by a unit of 30 ork boyz who got a second turn charge (ok, granted it would have been suprising if they would have survived that)

 

i want to know if theres a trick behind bikes other then have them be a 1 trick pony?

[ShinyRhino]

My motto for bikes is "Go big, or go home."

The more of them you have, the better they do. It sounds like you're running a squad of three? It'll be REALLY hard for that squad to do much besides make a suicide run at something. Try leaving them in reserve against an opponent with juicy armored targets. You get a 12" movement in from the table edge, and then a 12" threat range with those meltaguns.

I've never been a fan of attack bike squads, personally. I always attach my attack bikes to my biker squads. The problem with attack bikes is that they're too easy to Instant Death. One krak missile or lascannon hit takes out an entire attack bike. Blech. Adding them into a bike squad allows you to soak off those Instant Death wounds onto a bolter biker.

[Warp Angel]

I use single bike squads on a regular basis in my army and don't have many issues.

 

1) I always run them as troops with attached bike captain

2) I always have a full squad with an attack bike, sarge with fist.

3) If they are at risk of first turn death, I utilize their mobility and "alpha strike" capability and keep them in reserve fairly often.

 

Couple things to consider:

 

1) Do not use your bikes like assault squads.

2) Don't let your bikes be assaulted. If they are going to be in an assault, make sure they're the ones charging. And because they aren't assault squads, do it only against small or weakened units.

3) Remember that they are best at anti-infantry, good at anti-vehicle, and horrible as a static unit.

4) A captain with a relic blade and hellfire rounds makes the squad dramatically more dangerous and durable (wound distribution)

5) Speaking of wound distribution, remember that your attack bike has a "spare" wound that you can use to keep another bike alive. Makes it easier to weather some incoming fire.

6) Bikes should never operate outside of the support of other units in your army unless absolutely necessary for victory. They are one unit, a high priority target if your enemy is smart, and therefore vulnerable.

[Demoulius]

im a blood angel player so cant take them as troops :) the unit i run is 5 man strong, with powerfist and 2 meltaguns. the attack bikes are single units.

 

to give you an idea what ive got to work with il post my list:

 

Lemartes (3 wound chapy, will lead the death company)

10 close combat scouts with PF sarg

6 Death Company marines

10 man HB/PG tactical squad

10 man MM/PG/fist/rhino tactical squad

10 man assault squad with fist

5 bikes with 2 MG's and fist

MM attack bike

MM attack bike

 

basicly im giving bikes and scouts a try here. the idea is that the scouts infiltrate and try to snatch (or at least contest) objectives til the rest of the army arrives. the HB squad sits on any objectives that i may have, the mounted squads and the rest of the army zoom around and do whatever is appropiate.

[Demoulius]

*damn, double post* can anyone delete this?

[BrotherAtrox]

If you're going to take bikes in a BA list, you need to pair them up with a Speeder and lots of guys in Jump Packs to make them a not-so-attractive target.

 

They really work best though in larger numbers in a Standard Codex list.

[Jackelope King]

Bikes never operate alone.

 

I'll repeat that.

 

Bikes never operate alone, especially if you want them to survive*.

 

A lone bike squad, properly equipped, is a threat to both infantry and vehicles, and a smart opponent will be able to identify this and target the bikes appropriately. In order to combat this and preserve the squad, you must present other serious threats on that flank. Force your opponent to chose between shooting down the bikers screaming his way with melta-weapons or the Speeders roaring up behind them. Be able to sweep in and clean up the infantry that spill out of a transport vehicle after you pop it. Speeders and Bikes compliment one another very well in this regard: either one of them can melta open an enemy transport, and then the other can sweep up, whether with twin-linked bolters or with a heavy flamer (though obviously a bigger bike squad is better in the sweep-up step).

 

Bike squads hunt in packs. Even if you only have one squad, you cannot send it out alone and unsupported.

 

*Yes yes, you can send out tiny suicide bike squads if you really really want to go torpedo a single unit with a pricey alpha-strike, but I think it's a waste of a FA slot.

[Sanctjud]

Warp Angel: I second all of it. He has a passion for bikers.

I highly suggest all the linkies in his signature.

 

As for my contribution:

I wrote this a while ago of my thoughts on bikers in general:

http://www.40konline.com/community/index.p...8713#msg2228713

 

Two great (but really old) discussions on bikers:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=171107

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=162219

 

General Tactics I think everyone should get on if they want the most out of bikers: (again really old stuff but still good)

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...4179&st=125

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=106015

 

Good luck.

My MM AB's rarely let me down, just don't expect the world from anything and try and focus on movement and application of firepower.

[Demoulius]

thanks for the replies guys. i guess ive been abit reckless with my bikes, i want them to do something to much and send them in unsupported (or they just get singled out by anti-tank fire and die)

 

perhaps lying in wait for a while and/or turbo boosting abit and THEN striking is the key? beeing able to redeploy 24 inches is a weapon in itself!

[BrotherAtrox]

perhaps lying in wait for a while and/or turbo boosting abit and THEN striking is the key?

 

Yes! That is exactly what makes Codex Marines so dangerous with bikes - Outflank! They get to really hold the hard punch that bikes carry until the right moment, and then with that rule they can bring them on from an unexpected angle. So as someone stated before - don't treat bikes like they're Assault Marines.

[ShinyRhino]

perhaps lying in wait for a while and/or turbo boosting abit and THEN striking is the key?

 

Yes! That is exactly what makes Codex Marines so dangerous with bikes - Outflank! They get to really hold the hard punch that bikes carry until the right moment, and then with that rule they can bring them on from an unexpected angle. So as someone stated before - don't treat bikes like they're Assault Marines.

 

It's really not so much Outflanking (you have to be using Khan for this anyways, and he's a BA player). It's more about the ability to rapidly redeploy your force as needed.

You can use a 24" Turbo Boost to get away from a lot of trouble, or grab objectives late in the game.

Even if you don't Turbo Boost, a 12" move can provide a whole different firing angle at a target. That 12" can make the difference between firing on the front arc of a Russ tank, or the side.

Bikes take dangerous terrain tests for moving through difficult terrain, but you might fnd it worth it one day when there's an objective on the other side of a forest, or a juicy target that thinks you won't cross that river to get at them.

[Demoulius]

played a game today and keeping them back wasent an option, my opponent moved his stuff or just fired through terrain to get to them...they were dead in turn 3 and had only killed a chimera ;) attack bikes faired poorly as well, taking the lascannon shots my opponent was throwing at them... seriously what can do when your opponent really wants them dead?

[David the Despoiler]

Like has been said above, give your opponent options. Too many options. Whatever he picks might make it, but whatever he doesn't will ruin him.

[Cameron Magnus]

I have run my full bike squad succesfully several times and a complete fail at others.

 

When the unit has failed it is usualy on their first turn on the table. They get nailed by enough fire to force a morale check and for some reason my bikes have never passed one. Without a doubt they are falling back most of their 3D6 inches off of the table.

 

When the squad is successful it is due to being run with generous support. Either from a Bike Captain or other fast attack unit like my tripple typhoon terror squadron. I have had my bike squad flee heavy CC units like Avatars and pour fire into other units while the typhoons smash their persuers from the back field and keep moving themselves.

 

I have run these units alone and the bikes have never been successful as a sole FA unit. Their T5 is a protection from the shooting that gets poured into them, not a bonus to their close combat. If I support them my opponent must choose who to engage and by leap frogging the units I have had opponnents switch targets only for that unit to flee out of range.

 

I dont worry so much about getting into rapid fire range as the twin linked bolters is enough of a boost to make their shooting quite deadly on moderate sized and toughness infantry units.

[DevianID]

When I run competitive BA, I routinely run 9 MMAB with great success. I think the issue you are having is your overall list comp, rather than your bike units and how you are using them.

 

For me, I always run around 3 rhinos. Rhinos are overpowered, especially for BA. Take 3x5 RAS with a Pfist (I usually run 1 pweapon for corbulo's unit) and free rhinos. Less than 500 points, and you get 3 seperate scoring units, 3 DC extra, and three rhinos. Because I also run (and swear by) Dante and Corbulo, a 5 man RAS is a very deadly unit despite only having 5 models. (Dante also makes attack bikes LD 10, which can be great.)

 

Why do I mention rhinos in a bike discussion? Cover! You have problems with your opponent shooting your bikes? Put em behind a rhino wall! Cant be seen = cant be hurt by las cannon spam. And it takes a LOT of las cannon shots to kill a rhino--many more than it takes to kill a 50 point attack bike. Consider the following:

Las cannon hits an attack bike, 5/6 chance to wound, 4+ cover save or death, .417 expected dead attack bikes per las cannon hit.

Las cannon hits a rhino, 4+ to pen, 5+ to kill. .17 expected dead rhinos per las cannon hit, .083 expected dead rhinos if they smoke or are otherwise getting cover. This means a rhino is 250% to 500% tougher than a roughly equal point attack bike versus las cannons--even more versus missile launchers, and still 100% better than an attack bike versus ap1 melta attacks with smoke.

 

As an aside, I dont think bike squads work for competitive BA (Of course if its for fun then go for it!). Bikes are not discounted in the BA book, the close combat is the same as a 5 man RAS with fist, and the rhino you get from the RAS is free. The 2 meltas are nice, but 2 multimelta attack bike squads are cheaper, with 12' more range.

 

As a by the way, in my BA list the way I prevent a lot of assault on the bikes is with interdiction units. For example, I will run a rhino right up and directly in front of a leading land raider/ork battlewagon. The land raider/whatever will have issues getting around the rhino to assault my troops and shooty bikes, often giving me another round to deal with it or the rest of the enemy forces. Ironicly, the interdiction unit sometimes get ignored and left alone, as most people see a sacrificial empty transport as not worth their time when facing off against 9 MMAB--then I keep it to contest objectives.

 

PS: Area terrain is your friend. MMAB, with 2 wounds each, cant kill themselves on terrain very easily. And as long as you didnt turbo boost, you can still go to ground. SO many people dont know that the bikes can go to ground--you can surprise many opponents with that.

[Demoulius]

well shielding with rhinos is fine and dandy but most of the times the things with lascannons (or otherwise scary stuff) that you suggest i shield my bikes from is the very thing that they are hunting...

 

generally speaking i do shield my bikes until the point that i want to fire with them. then they just about always let me down or dont do enough damage (or in most cases 0 zero....just yesterday i had 2d6 armour pen on a chimera's front armour and rolled snake eyes....JOY!!!) nothing much i can do about good or bad luck but it seems the bike units suffer from it severly. it almost like the models have got magnets build in them as well cause ranged units have no problem shooting at them whatsoever... (not even orks with their puny BS of 2 ;) )

 

not to sure whetever im just very unlucky with them or my opponents are just very lucky with their shooting against me or a combination of these 2....but it seems the dice gods dont want me to bring bikes to the table <_<

[DevianID]

Try 9 MMAB instead of 2 for 1 game (proxy if you must). It tends to be harder to get let down 9 times in a single turn than 2 times.