Aeddon Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I didn't want to hyjack the other thread where this was originally posted so I'm starting a new one here. The discussion was going like this... The entire Eye of Terror codex is now invalid, so no you can't. Not trying to be argumentative but I was unaware that the Eye of Terror became invalid. I know that the models are not being produced but what makes the rules by themself invalid? Codex Eye of Terror now refers you to two books that are no longer legal, Codex Space Wolves (3rd Edition) and Codex Space Marines (4th Edition). Now, I've got a copy of the EoT codex and while it does refer you to Codex Space Wolves and Codex Space Marines it does not refer to the edition. I just don't see why we cannot use the current edition codicies with the EoT codex and still field a 13th Company army. Am I missing something? Was there some official statement from GW saying "you can't use this codex anymore"? (honest question) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niiai Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Well I have no idea. But is it compatebil? I thought the 13th wolf priest got a new spell or whatnot? If not it sounds realy cool and tempting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2282891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 The Rune Priest trades Stormcaller for Gate. Other than that you use the rules from Codex Space Wolves for the Wolf Lord, Rune Priest and Wolf Priest. Wolf Guards use the armoury (I believe, I don't have the codex in front of me right now) so one could argue that since the armoury is gone that they can only take bolt pistol and chainsword. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2282902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niiai Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Ouch, that would hurt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2282949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 i you wanted to use it aganst me then i would ask you used the old codex and points costs/equipment descriptions (e.g MOTW) in there, even if that did give you access to things like runic charms and better wolf/rune priests because they were the rules it was designed to work with. i dislike the idea of people saying they want the new ruleset with the new rune priests, and the only thing they will change is that they can't take storm caller... just doesn't seem right to me. if you were prepared to sit down with me for a while and we could all come to some agreement on things then i would be happy to do a homegrown dex but i wouldnt want you mixing and matching an obsoloete codex and the new codex. out of curiosity why is it that you want to do 13th co? and why do you feel you cannot do a well themed army using the new codex? also try searching because i remember something similar popped up a while ago so there might be some ideas in that thread that you could use Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 As for official uses of 13th Co. this is about it unless GW has something up its sleeve. And this is Apocalypse, mind you. http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...ulfen_Guard.pdf I have to agree with Stinkenheim on this one. You can fluff out current codex stuff for 13th Co very easily. Any attempt to try and split the benefit between 3rd and 5th ed. codexes would meet a lot of resistance. One or the other, please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 out of curiosity why is it that you want to do 13th co? and why do you feel you cannot do a well themed army using the new codex? I can see two things from the old 13th that the new codex just doesn't provide, Wulfen squads and the Rune Priest's Gate power, both of which I feel are a big part of what defines a 13th army. One can use a 'counts-as' Logan and make Grey Slayer packs and Storm Claw packs out of Wolf Guard but without the Wulfen and Gate it's a bit like eating a pie without the filling. @hmk17 Yeah that could work but you can only use it in Apoc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 its been said before but TWC are decent representations for wulfen, quick moving, strong, tough, plus rending. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I also play 13th and have been in the process of converting my list and models into something that fits with the new dex. I use grey hunters as slayers, wolf pack elites as storm claws, long fangs, TCW as wulfen and I now use scouts to help supplement the lack of footslogging movement that the old 13th had. My TWC are 1 wulfen model and 1 goblin rider wolf model on a 60mm base running side by side. I also include a wulfen model in all my squads, except for longfangs atm. Even though I miss the old codex, I do find that you can make a good 13th style list using the new codex. I would be interested to know though if GW has made an official statement saying that the EoT dex is not usuable. I mean my buddy uses a 2nd edition dark eldar codex so I don't see why an EoT dex would be out of the question. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 It might be as simple as the fact that there is no longer going to be any FAQ for the EoT. This would imply that it is out of date and no longer receiving support from G.W. When 4th Edition was about to be released I sent Games Workshop an e-mail asking if the EoT 13th Co. would be still playable and there response was 'that it was unlikely for them to create this great models (The Wulfen) only to have them redundant after a couple of months'. Of course we never got a 4th ed codex but the models were made redundant by 5th Ed. I personally would be quite happy to carry on using the 3rd Ed codex with the EoT book but for all the complications that will arise in doing so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceWolf13C Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 the 13th company list was no longer recognized as legal back in 4th ed. ive tried making the same list i used but it doesnt convert. no Gate and no armywide scout doesn't cut it. my 13th company recently came across a landfill planet in the warp where they found some used transports that they fixed up. o and the not having move through cover. man i miss having a swiftly moving footslogging army. in the Eot i never moved less than 5 inches through cover. now it seems they just enjoy the shade and dont rush into the fight like they used to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I really liked the old 13th co 'dex. I wish they'd've brought it back with this edition. Sadly, I don't think it's going to happen. While you can sort of approximate the 13th with the current rules, there's a lot of things that just don't gel. For instance, 13th co got an extra attack on each model, and with Mark the pack leaders got a huge number of extra power fist attacks. Further, while you can choose not to take vehicles to keep with 13th fluff, you get none of the compensating benifits. Such as army-wide scout moves, or librarians with Gate. Further, they had some options that remain unique, such as long fangs taking special weapons or Wulfen. No, you can call your army 13th co, but at least to me it doesn't have that nasty, super-elite feel, even with Wolf Guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 If you aren't worried about playing your 13th Company in tournaments, then I honestly think that your best bet is to just use the new Codex and the old 13th Company rules as a foundation for your own Fan-based codex (like I did with pure Grey Knights recently). Make it fair and balanced and in keeping with the theme and folks will play you, no problem. Remember, they own the Intellectual Property and sell you the models, but the game is yours not theirs. Do what you want with it and, most importantly, have fun. If anyone wants to start a 13th Company fan-based codex in the Homegrown Rules section, let me know, I'd be happy to contribute. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 That sounds like a great idea Valerian! Anyone else interested in this project? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I'd help come up with ideas since I play 13th. As I mentioned above I find the use of scouts important to supplement the fact that you lose out on an army wide scout move/outflank and move through cover. I also find the loss of fearless and can't be pinned a big loss with a MotW model leading a squad. I run at least 2 assault based scout packs with MotW+melta gun+pack leader with combi-melta and PF. Both are units are 7 scouts+1 pack leader. If I want to cut numbers here and there I could put in the PW's also. I find it important to create some havoc BEL's with my scouts so that my foot sloggers can move up the field faster. Also, I do use a whirlwind with a mix of SW and chaos icons as their lone captured vehicle and I have named it "The Fangs of Russ" My only HQ is a rune priest who uses storm caller to move up with my sloggers and I can easily expand my list from 1500 to 2000 by adding in a wolf priest with the Wolfkin Saga, a full unit of fen wolves and a 4 man unit of TWC. I've had success against my Eldar buddy so far with the list and I'll be playing my DE and IG friend soon to see how it works out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 the main reason the supplement got ignored was the change int the scout rule (rather the introduction of outflank). it became too powerful for an elite cc army to be able to outflank its entire force. Move throuh cover is a loss, but don't forget there is also the ability for all units to run so that balances out, in fact chances are under the new ed your units will be closing quicker than if they could simply gain one free mve at the start of battle. gate and wulfen arer the only things that are harder to fit into the new rules, but then wulfen, or rather motw is available to many units in the codex just not as a single unit of marked models. gate could easily be included in the powers list using the rules for Gate of Infinty in C:SM without too many complaints from your opponents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2283909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 the main reason the supplement got ignored was the change int the scout rule (rather the introduction of outflank). it became too powerful for an elite cc army to be able to outflank its entire force. Move throuh cover is a loss, but don't forget there is also the ability for all units to run so that balances out, in fact chances are under the new ed your units will be closing quicker than if they could simply gain one free mve at the start of battle.gate and wulfen arer the only things that are harder to fit into the new rules, but then wulfen, or rather motw is available to many units in the codex just not as a single unit of marked models. gate could easily be included in the powers list using the rules for Gate of Infinty in C:SM without too many complaints from your opponents. I am of the opinion that you just use drop pods and the drop pod assault to represent units you want "gating" into play. Of course this removes the in-game teleport aspect of the old 13th Co Gate, but if you want to try and keep within the new codex, it is a minor sacrifice to make. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2284203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Anyone found a good way to create a gate that is supposed to represent a drop pod? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2284319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Anyone found a good way to create a gate that is supposed to represent a drop pod? I have not yet taken on that conversion just yet, but will post up pics when I finally do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2284326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 That sounds like a great idea Valerian! Anyone else interested in this project? I certainly am Aeddon. If most of us play casual games as im sure we all do, then i see no reason why a little homebrew codex wont be welcomed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2284388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjarl Grimblood Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 The 13th Company codex is done. If you really want to play them then you'll have to use the new codex and make an original list that represents them effectively. If you want to do so, then by all means go for it. Personally, I'm planning to create warp rifts for them to enter onto the table from and then use the Drop Pod rules. Just use your imagination and the new dex and you should have no problems. Continuing to use the ancient Eye of Terror will most likely be incredibly frowned upon, especially with such a new and interesting dex. Besides, with the changes to "Scout" you're just going to be seen as a poor player who can't win fairly by playing the Eye of Terror list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192294-13th-company-still-viable/#findComment-2284427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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