Better Flamer death squad

[minigun762]

I'm debating about adding in a fun squad of pure flaming death. I have 2 major options in my mind, Terminators or Chosen.

 

Chosen will probably be 5-6 guys with 5 Flamers. Rhino and IoCG are strong possibilities.

Terminators will be 3-4 guys, Heavy Flamer, 2-3 Combi-Flamers and maybe a TL Bolter.

 

Chosen will have more Flamers and they can use them more then once. Terminators will have a Heavy Flamer and are harder to kill and have Power Weapons.

 

In the end, I'm thinking it might come down to deployment.

Deepstriking vs Outflanking vs Infiltrating

[jmlee]

I use chosen like this. They usually die in the turn after they fire because of their low numbers, however they usually kill at least their points cost also, especially against nids and other swarmy armies. I like the chosen. I'm not too big into the termies with combi flamers. I'd rather have them tank hunt with meltas or something, or have them in cc.

[Zhukov]

Apart from it if its a good idea: Chosen.

 

Deepstriking is just not reliable enough for such low range weapons, so thats imo never an option. At least not in this way, adding 1 heavy flamer to a plasma/melta termi squad is something different.

[Dan The Deamon]

unless your opponent is arranged in a pretty strange way you'll find that flamer termis can't often cover much. Deep striking aside even if you drop them from an icon you'll probably only be able to get two flamer templates off because of the ways you are arranged.

 

I don't use chosen so i can't offer much on that.

 

What I do use is a ten man squad with Glory, flamer x 2 and a champ with a fist and combi-flamer. They are sort of my mech counter attack squad. In my last two games the squad dealt 27 wounds on a genestealer squad without any bolter shots. Against guard they dealt 24 wounds before bolters. Usually when i hit space marines (and sometimes terminators) the combined total of the flamers and 7 rapid fire bolters are enough wounds to finish off the squad. On some occasions they have left one or two men standing but then a couple of rhinos with Twin Linked bolters x 2 can usually finish up.

[Cpt. Postumus]

Chosen all the way, save the termicide squad for combi-meltas and tank busting.

 

If you would decide to infiltrate them (and with a bit of luck) they can clean up squads your Havocs just rendered rideless.

 

 

However:

 

 

Chosen will probably be 5-6 guys with 5 Flamers. Rhino and IoCG are strong possibilities.

 

 

A great way to bottle-neck approaching hoard armies with greater speed and protection than just infiltrating, just don't forget the combi-flamer on the Rhino to make it a true BBQ-doom squad (Demonic Possession is also nice if you can find the points for it).

 

 

 

Postumus

[Cornelias]

the main plus point of using chosen is they deploy last allowing you point them where they can do the most damage, i generally use them to push a holding unit off an objective then icon down some daemons to hold while they move on. at this point they either get plenty of attention and get cut down (drawing fire from my other units) or continue to cause some damage to the enemy lines.

 

the fact that they are non scoring is actually a plus as your not worrying about them losing combat or dilly-dallying about near an objective, i know they aren't most peoples cup of tea but if you put some thought into it they can be very effective, although many will probably disagree with me here.

 

i usually play against more MEQ than horde so haven't really tested a full flamer squad in this role.

[minigun762]

A great way to bottle-neck approaching hoard armies with greater speed and protection than just infiltrating, just don't forget the combi-flamer on the Rhino to make it a true BBQ-doom squad (Demonic Possession is also nice if you can find the points for it).

 

Postumus

 

What do you mean exactly? I'm tired and at work so my brain isn't working 100%.

[chillin]

My brain is well rested (well...practically dead) after being snowed in for days, and I'm not sure what he is trying to say either.

As for the OT, you know I loves me some flamers, but I don't know about a squad with just 4 or 5 flamers. They are just too limited on what they can do (ie: nothing vs vehicles or MC's or walkers). Maybe chosen with 2 melta & 2 flamers ?

[minigun762]

They are just too limited on what they can do (ie: nothing vs vehicles or MC's or walkers). Maybe chosen with 2 melta & 2 flamers ?

 

I feel that Terminators do the mixed special thing much better since you can take a Heavy Flamer in that case. As Zhukov said and I agree with entirely, adding in a Heavy Flamer to a Termicide squad is a different beast.

[Cpt. Postumus]

My crew and I play with a lot of terrain. That said, this tactic works well VS big, unwieldy mobs of Orks or Nids, things you know are coming right for you. I move up and hide the Rhino somewhere advantageous, usually in cover somewhere near the center of the board, allowing reasonably quick access to either flank. It doesn't always work, but the couple of times it has resonate among my regulars and more often than not avoid my Rhino and stray into fire lanes I've set up on my flanks. Hop out and burn, or stay inside and lay down two templates from the top hatch if you're worried about return fire (this is why I like D. Possession). Its attracting more and more fire which is mediated with cover, but its usually fine as its less fire directed against other stuff (DP, the OTHER Chosen squad that infiltrated, havocs, ect).

 

The IoCG is also a good idea, especially to drop 5 man Lesser Demon squads to act as speed bumps.....in theory anyways, I don't have a lot of luck with reserve rolls.

 

Not the best tactic out there, but I'm still trying things out.

 

 

Postumus

[jmlee]

Well, my fav group of chosen is x5 plasma guns.sure, you may lose a guy per turn or worse of the dice gods hate you, but let 'em loose and watch the enemy marines die! I usually run a squad with plasma and a squad with flamers. The flamers don't usually get a ton of kills, but I don't like to tailor my list for every person I fight, so I have them in there for horde armies. They're still a threat to marines, just not as much as normal. I mean, 5 flamers into a squad of 10 marines. Probably around 12 wounds. Probably around 8 saves unless they roll well. That's still 4 dead. Leaves 6. Then you charge. 15 attacks to them, 6 back. You've got the advantage! You just have to be able to charge, which means waiting a turn to disembark. Of course horde its great. Last game vs nids... I had 39 hits, 25 kills vs a group of hormagaunts. There were 25 gaunts in the group. They can devastate hordes! Just be careful cause if you don't assault that turn your wide open to shooting.

[Cornelias]

another plus point for the chosen is you can have some fun modeling them B)

[the jeske]

my fav group of chosen is x5 plasma guns...let 'em loose and watch the enemy marines die!

 

 

don't usually get a ton of kills, but I don't like to tailor my list for every person I fight

??? that does sound like tailoring only not against meq . +the kill count aint so great too. they have to be out of transport and and unless they are standing in the open [what should almost never happen] you shot with 10 hit with 7-8, wound 6 ,then 3 go through cover . 3 dead meq out of a squad of 10 aint so great considering you cant charge.

 

as flamer units go . "best"[not saying wise to take] is probablly a csm unit of 10 with flamerx2 and a combi flamer , then probablly chosen [but thats 2k+games] , termis as flamer units dont make sense getting in to 12" with a melta aint the same as getting within 3-4" to get the best from a flamer.

[chillin]

termis as flamer units dont make sense getting in to 12" with a melta aint the same as getting within 3-4" to get the best from a flamer.

I agree with this. Besides the point that jeske made, enemy squad have to be out of rino ( or other transport) for a flamer squad to do anything at all (how many mech list are out there ?). So you basicly if you are palying against orks, hoard nids, or non mech IG the all flamer squad will do great, if playing against anyone else....

I know a all flamer chosen squad would do nothing against me. They can shoot flamers at my rinos, LR's, preds, & oblits all they want, the only squad they could hurt is my foot slogging plaz squad, but they tend to go right up the middle of the board, safe from outflankers.

[Possessed Marine]

Methinks you should just stick with the old "reliable" 5x Plasma squad in rhino and outflank with 'em... (I love causing havoc in the back field) far as I'm concerned, it's a "disposable" unit, chuck 'em into the thick of it and destroy as much as possible

[Cpt. Postumus]

the only squad they could hurt is my foot slogging plaz squad, but they tend to go right up the middle of the board, safe from outflankers.

 

 

 

How would you go about keeping these guys safe, or are they just meant as a distraction?

[minigun762]

the only squad they could hurt is my foot slogging plaz squad, but they tend to go right up the middle of the board, safe from outflankers.

 

 

 

How would you go about keeping these guys safe, or are they just meant as a distraction?

 

He's had alot of luck using them to camp objectives. Its less points on a transport and less potential kill points, plus 10 CSMs in cover with LD9 rerolled is a pretty durable camper.

[Corpse.]

You're forgetting something vital.

 

Chosen can take meltabombs.

 

I run 5 chosen with 5 flamers and 5 meltabombs. They either get to charge tanks that have stood still, or flame something horribly. Costs 140 pts, sure it's a little more then the standard 115 termicide, but can easily wipe out a squadron of 3 basilisks (or any other tank with 10/11 rear AV).

 

It's easily climbing up to be my favorite 'tasker' unit. I run 2-3 almost every game now, either 5 plasma guns and no MB's inside a rhino, or 5 with meltabombs, flamers and no rhino so they can charge. Sort of hard to make 12" on either side of the table un-occupied when facing a chaos player that often rolls up the middle, best strategy is to split into the corners when possible. That's hard to do considering these outflankers that have no scattering issues.

[the jeske]

They either get to charge tanks that have stood still,

wont happen unless the tank is imobilised + they have to survive for one turn [to get that imobilised tank] as they cant deploy 12" away from enemy.

 

or flame something horribly

when they have first turn and when their target isnt in transport , what with the number of mecha armies out there means it wont happen a lot of times.

 

Costs 140 pts, sure it's a little more then the standard 115 termicide, but can easily wipe out a squadron of 3 basilisks

how does that happen[am putting aside the question who uses a squadron of 5 basilisks in a IG army] ? you cant charge turn 1 , when you do move you have to go around terrain[because you had to deploy 12" away] what means they can drive away . there is no way of using outflanking against IG [because if they were actually near one of the board edges they will block the whole entry point or have units that do that for them] and then there is the question of how against a fast redeploying army like IG do 5 marines survive for 2 turns near a squadron that is worth 3 times as much points ?

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

i use ,generally, a unit of 8 chosen,with two meltas and two flamers,glory,champion with power fist and rhino with extra armour.This unit works well,but is very expensive and an excellent target,too...

[Corpse.]

They either get to charge tanks that have stood still,

wont happen unless the tank is imobilised + they have to survive for one turn [to get that imobilised tank] as they cant deploy 12" away from enemy.

The tanks that normally stay still to fire all of its guns are often in the corners of the table.

 

or flame something horribly

when they have first turn and when their target isnt in transport , what with the number of mecha armies out there means it wont happen a lot of times.

Its conditional, but people don't go taking dire avengers expecting them to face a horde of transports when they arrive. Outflank is turn2+, I'm pretty sure I might have a good number of transports dead by then. My army often takes the numbers above special gubbins category, so people tend to stand back and try to take me out at range before persuing objectives.

 

Costs 140 pts, sure it's a little more then the standard 115 termicide, but can easily wipe out a squadron of 3 basilisks

how does that happen[am putting aside the question who uses a squadron of 5 basilisks in a IG army] ? you cant charge turn 1 , when you do move you have to go around terrain[because you had to deploy 12" away] what means they can drive away . there is no way of using outflanking against IG [because if they were actually near one of the board edges they will block the whole entry point or have units that do that for them] and then there is the question of how against a fast redeploying army like IG do 5 marines survive for 2 turns near a squadron that is worth 3 times as much points ?

 

If I'm not in a transport, outflanking chosen will be able to charge something 12" away, and normally I try to avoid terrain. Or have very short walk to get to my target(s) for meltabomb charges. IG armies around here deploy pretty far back, I would dare they hug their table edges when facing armies that can hamper them in melee. Makes a whole lot easier for me since they're pressed back and try to conserve space by deploying very wide.

 

 

But it's not just IG that it faces. How many games does it turn out just a big bash in the middle for you on average out of 10? Can always provoke things to come at you near a table edge and hit them with the unit, or be aggressive and make them retreat along the table edges/deploy along the edges as much as possible for sweet target choices.

 

I prefer to try to force pressure playstyles by acting obvious with my deployment, and having something off somewhere to take advantage of the standard reaction to my playstyle to try to cut in somewhere for a juicy target or opportunity.