Imperial Armour Vol II from Forgeworld

[Hellios]

I come from a background where we play fog of war so you might very well not know what army your playing against let alone its composition,

 

But I don't and as an outsider coming into your environment for the first time it would be nice to be told your house rules before I commit to a game (you do that don't you?), I might decide that format of game not for me (I'm not that experienced), does that make me a 'loser'? Does that make you more committed to 40K than me?

 

If you came to my group, would you start weeping and raging because we asked you to show us your army list and maybe even talk us through the units that we haven't come across before - our house rules stick more closely to GWs recommendations because that's our background.

 

Just like taking a quick look at the terrain on the board and checking that both players are happy what's what instead of having to dice off over a vital move half way through the battle because you can't agree whether it's difficult/dangerous/impassable - it's about communicating before you start so that both sides are confident they can have an enjoyable game.

 

I'd be happy to take on FW stuff, but what I don't like is people who think that their word must be taken as law just because they own an expansion that I do not and they can't be bothered to bring any documentation to support their understanding of the rules. This isn't a dig at FW players but at anyone who doesn't bring some sort of army list and the relevant codex/expansion (or dice, or rulebooks. or templates...)! Rant over :P

 

 

 

P1: Experience is nothing, if someone lacks experience throw them in the deep end and explain as you go along... As long as you handle it right they won't drown. I would expect people to explain things and I would expect you to give it a try. I really hate peoples children when I cook food and they tell me they don't like XXX and they say no and I ask have they ever tried it and I say no... It makes the voices speak to me...

 

p2: I certainly wouldn't weep, I just find the surprise of not knowing and limiting peoples ability to tailor lists makes the game more fun (not such a problem if you have them written up beforehand), I would play and as long as I don't forget my rigged dice... I would defeat you. I might however be a bit miffed If you wouldn't let me use Snouser the friendly Warhound titan (Just kidding, I cannot afford :'().

 

P3: Although we decide what terrain counts as (based on what it looks like) we do not determine if coverage is fair, we get enough terrain to cover 25% of the board (aka the footprint of the terrain) and then we randomly generate the terrain which means it can all end up in a clump on one side... but again in battle the terrain might not always be to your advantage and it stops that boring X formation where people place one in each corner and another bit in the middle (although that even happens from time to time... randomly). However I don't mind what people do elsewhere as long as its not one person deploying all the terrain to give himself a purposeful advantage.

 

P4: I fully agree that people should bring the rules for whatever they are using even if its home-brew stuff you have allowed them to use they should have it written down somewhere. Also I am the LAW! ;)

[stinkenheim]

@ king tiger lol, you are really trying to be obtuse aren't you. i didnt say that FW stuff is better than cheaper options merely that everyone in tournaments should be on the same handicap and it shouldnt be down to the people with the biggest wallets having the advantage. Alot of FW rules are now incorporated into the standard codexes, valkyries for example. but a few years ago someone would have been able to turn up with a flyer (as it was) thatcould transport troops and drop them where they wanted during the opponents turn. that is an advantage and one only given to people who could afford the £70 kit. is it really that hard for you to grasp the reasoning behind my statements or are you deliberately setting out to pick arguments?

i am not saying FW is better because it costs more, i know for a fact many FW things are overcosted and underpowered, however it tournament settings people should be on an equal footing and it fits that only things in standard cdexes are allowed, because that ay everyone is singing from the same sheet.

 

@grey mage if i were to use FW items in any game i would always make sure i had the correct IA book or a download of the rules, in fact if it were a download i would likely have the relevant page printed twice so my opponent could have a copy of the units rules for anything they were unsure of. I would also never just set my stuff up without informing a normal opponent, in gaming clubs its harder as the games are pre-arranged but i would still mention it if someone wanted a game 'oh btw i've got x model from FW, wanna look at the rules?'. all im saying is that i wouldn't seel their permission to use it, much like i don't expect someone with 3 landraiders to ask if they can use them aganst me.

heck i would love to know if someone is using an all infantry or a full mech with heavy armoured support list before a game as i could tailor my list to suit, but i don't ask nor expect that and as such i write lists that i think can handle most things. and that is part of the enjoyment i get, these small surprises being sprung that force me to see how my allrounder list can cope against different playstyles.

mentioning planetstrike/city fight is different as they are changes to the core rules which need to be agreed upon fist, imo non superheavy FW items aren't in the same category and as such shouldn't require opponents permission just a heads up that your taking them.

[Vanor]

all im saying is that i wouldn't seel their permission to use it, much like i don't expect someone with 3 landraiders to ask if they can use them aganst me.

 

There's a difference however. 3 Landraiders is a option from the Codex, where anything using FW rules is from what can be at best an expansion. Anytime you include expansion rules in a normal game you need to at least discus it before hand.

 

The FW stuff may or may not be offical, nothing in the rules or on the GW site recognizes FW rules as being official. The only thing FW has going for it is the official Warhammer logo with expansion under it. Or at least that's what I saw on the cover they have displayed on the FW page.

 

That means the FW rules should be treated like every other expansion, such as Apoc of Cities of Death... You have to discuss including those rules before the game starts. FW stuff is not the same thing as including 3 Landraiders in a SM Codex list.

 

Edit:

 

mentioning planetstrike/city fight is different as they are changes to the core rules which need to be agreed upon fist, imo non superheavy FW items aren't in the same category

 

That depends on what you take. If you have a FW model that is really nothing more then a fancy looking Dreadnought but still has the same weapon loadout, stats and rules as a Codex Dread, then no, you shouldn't need to ask permission.

 

But if you're using the Deathstorm drop pod with whirlwind launchers or the drop pod that allows assault on the turn the unit DS's then yes you are changing the core rules and need to ask first.

[Grey Mage]

@grey mage .....

mentioning planetstrike/city fight is different as they are changes to the core rules which need to be agreed upon fist, imo non superheavy FW items aren't in the same category and as such shouldn't require opponents permission just a heads up that your taking them.

Thats all Im asking for, and thats all I think is needed. "mind if I grab some stuff from IA 2?" "Sure." 'nough said.

[rat of vengence]

the only people who complain about FW stuff are the people who have no idea what the rules for them are because they never bother to look

 

I think that's a bit unfair KT. There is a real problem with accessibility. With books costing £50 or so not everyone/club can afford them.

you can download 1 and 2 for free from GW, and we all know there are sites out there you can download the rest, no point being ignorant and denying it, and your opponent can ask to see your copy to see the stats of what your using.

 

not having access is an excuse for the weak and lazy.

LOL, I have looked at the IA1 and 2, and still don't like a few of the units because they are horribly undercosted. Your blanket stement has holes in it dude. ;)

 

On the other point, I am quite happy to not search out pirated copies of copyrighted texts. I have standards, and wouldn't lower them just because you think lack of access is "an excuse for the weak and lazy". This attitude of yours directly contradicts your posts in another thread about only wanting to play for fun. I guess it is only fun for you if you get your way. B)

 

RoV

[Hellios]

LOL, I have looked at the IA1 and 2, and still don't like a few of the units because they are horribly undercosted. Your blanket stement has holes in it dude. :)

 

On the other point, I am quite happy to not search out pirated copies of copyrighted texts. I have standards, and wouldn't lower them just because you think lack of access is "an excuse for the weak and lazy". This attitude of yours directly contradicts your posts in another thread about only wanting to play for fun. I guess it is only fun for you if you get your way. B)

 

RoV

 

Piracy is fun, the Disney corporation demands you go to their private facility and take part in a marathon session of Pirates of the Caribbean.

 

It's hardly a search you type it in on google and click download :), as for your standards they are weak and puny because you are willing to lower them... and yes lack of access is a pretty bad excuse... if I cheated and said it was because I couldn't afford the BBB... well I know a number of people without the current BBB but woop... if they don't have it and get caught out by a rule they are not aware of... well tough... if they don't have every codex and don't know all the rules for every army... tough... I guess they will learn as it is sprung on them.

 

As for things being overpowered or under pointed... that is subjective... I'm pretty sure a number of codices have had accussations made about certain units within them or certain lists that can be made... not that I've ever had a problem with said units and lists (and not its not because I was using FW), because I have Faith in the God Emperor and he has told me that FW rules are official for Imperial Forces. Although the Lucius Drop Pod man they need to up the points on that thing a bit XD that was a mistake of trying to sell drop pods that do nothing now and cost 5x as much. Deathstorm is a bit more meh... it can totally smash an army it can also do nothing, if your enemy knows it's coming there are a number of things they can do to reduce it's effectiveness, I still think its a bargin and a risk worth taking, but It's hardly overpowered IMO and also IMO the assault-cannon variant is not as good and costs more.

[Isiah]

I think this discussion is done as not only has it gone around in circles with nothing new added it's now veering into territory that's best not to veer into. B&C doesn't condone the use of pirated anything so let's keep those kinds of references out of here please.

 

 

Cheers

I