Assault Squad loadout

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Ok im struggling to determine which is better on an all comers list for my assault squad w/chaplain.

 

2 flamers and a sarge w/PF

 

or 2 plasma pistols and a power sword for the sarge?

[JamesI]

Personally, I think the 2 flamers and powerfist is the better all comers set up. You could add a plasmapistol to the sarge if you feel you really need the higher strength shot. The flamer will kill more than the plasma pistol most of the time, is far more useful against hordes.

 

The chaplain already provides a nice powerweapon so the powerfist is the better choice for combat. Actually, I think the fist is the better choice anyway, for the benefit of killing tanks/monsterous creatures.

[thade]

I 100% agree with JamesI. I enjoy stacking two highly mobile flamer templates. Conversely, I do not enjoy risking the squad serg with a plasma pistol; I want me my power fist and my leadership 9.

 

Keep in mind that an assault squad's strengths lie in mobility and fire power; they're good in an assault against anything not spec'd for assault, but they are poor for assaults otherwise. Never Deep Strike them.

 

If you want melee, consider un-upgraded Vanguard, with perhaps only a power fist. They hit a LOT harder on the charge, and sans upgrades they are not much more expensive. Mount them in a Rhino instead of giving them jump packs. You can also consider mounting the assault squad in a Rhino (sans jump packs). I usually find my assault squads will kill the first unit they engage then die to fire power in the next turn...something that could possibly be avoided by interposing their transport between them and what might shoot at them.

[DarkGuard]

Agree with both JamesI and Thade here, 2x flamers and power fist is the best way to go. Those flamers will eat up horde armies (especially useful now that Nid' fever has hit), and can even stack a large amount of wounds onto MEQ armies, resulting in more saves taken and hopefully more casualties. In combat the PF normall beats a PW as a general all purpose CC weapon. People may argue that PW and meltabombs can do the same job but without an Initiative decrease and for 5 pts cheaper, but the PF can more reliably kill MEQ and can hurt MCs easier then the PW, and can deal with walkers better than the meltabombs.

 

So like I said, I'd stick with what JamesI and Thade have suggested.

[Giga]

2 flamers and a sarge w/PF

This.

 

Plasma pistols aren't worth it. They're expensive AND they get a good chance to kill your models, while at the same time not really adding too much to the squad's killiness.

[pryor]

I agree with the PF & 2 Flamers combo but just want to throw this question in:

Is it worth giving the sarge a shield (I know he can get the combat shield but can't remember if he get the storm shield) or just allow the ablative wounds of the squad to keep him in the fight?

[Brother Captain Josef]

I am shying away from giving my serg a shield. He only has one wound and an expensive powerfist upgrade that in some cases might be your best / only hope of winning combat. Don't risk him, man up and take it on a marine!

 

Did I hear someone wisper 'combi flamer'? *I think* your asssault serge can take these

[JamesI]

Shields aren't a bad idea, depending on the cost (I don't recall the cost). Its basically an insurance for when the rest of the squad dies and you need some protection to make sure your fist lives long enough to go. Though, if allowed, a combi-flamer or combi-melta is most likely better idea

[Meatman]

Assault sergeants can't take combi weapon

 

 

I run mine with 2 flamers and a powerfist, and if i have 5 points left over, meltabombs for land raiders ;)

[Koremu]

I have both Plasma Pistols and Flamers modelled up for my Assault Squads, but I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and give the perspective on why Plasma Pistols are good;

 

In short, it's because Mechanised is everything nowadays.

 

As far as taking down an AV11 Transport goes, Flamers are useless. Three Plasma Pistols, on the other hand, actually have a respectable chance of popping the Transport - a chance which increases further when you realise that because of Assault Marines supermobility, they can usually get their shots at AV10 instead (especially vs. IG & Orks). Because the rules allow you to take your shooting in any order, you can try and pop the transport with you PPs first and then fall back to using your genuine Heavy Support second - which can save you valuable shots that can be directed elsewhere.

 

I'm also not that impressed by the arguments for Flamers. While it's true that they are good vs. certain targets, those tend to be the targets that Assault Squads are naturally good at anyway - Low Save Hordes. Plasma Pistols add a lot of tactical flexibility for very little real loss.

[ShinyRhino]

I run my one Assault Squad with one of each: plasma pistol, flamer, powerfist.

This is purely a playstyle choice, as I like to use my Assault Squad as a wildcard in my battles. The flamer can stack some hits on horde, and the plasma can fire at transports or a high-T unit. The fist is for bashing higher-AV, MCs, or anythign I want to die from Instant Death.

Sure, one of these weapons is usually wasted in a given turn, but by having one of each, I can point my Assault Marines at anything and do SOMETHING. They're not the lynchpin of my force, more like the monkey wrench.

[thade]

Shields aren't a bad idea, depending on the cost (I don't recall the cost). Its basically an insurance for when the rest of the squad dies and you need some protection to make sure your fist lives long enough to go. Though, if allowed, a combi-flamer or combi-melta is most likely better idea

 

Again, I'm with JamesI here: a shield is fine if you find you've got the points kicking around and you can't think of anywhere else to spend it, as it means when that model is forced to take a save that it otherwise wouldn't be able to make, it has a chance. Don't go throwing power weapon/AP3 hits on him if you have vanilla models to spare though. Keep that Power Fist alive at all costs.

 

Also, Koremu makes a valid point about transport popping; still not a risk I enjoy taking, but it's really not THAT big of a risk.

[DarkGuard]

I'm also not that impressed by the arguments for Flamers. While it's true that they are good vs. certain targets, those tend to be the targets that Assault Squads are naturally good at anyway - Low Save Hordes. Plasma Pistols add a lot of tactical flexibility for very little real loss.

 

Plasma pistols shine against MEQ, but only when they are in the open. If you're assaulting a squad that is in cover then flamers will probably perform better with auto-hit and multiple hits, potentially forcing more saves then the plasma pistols would. Of course, the pistols would reduce the save, but it is here that flamers win over the pistols, the ability to stack a lot of wounds onto a target.

 

What with pistols liable to overheat (I seem to have every plasma weapon in my army overheat at some point - plasma guns overheat once every turn!), and the increased points cost for a weapons that's only really more effective against tanks and MEQ out of cover, I don't think it's worth it. Of course, you do not a couple more attacks in combat which sometimes can make all the difference...

[Koremu]

I'm also not that impressed by the arguments for Flamers. While it's true that they are good vs. certain targets, those tend to be the targets that Assault Squads are naturally good at anyway - Low Save Hordes. Plasma Pistols add a lot of tactical flexibility for very little real loss.

 

Plasma pistols shine against MEQ, but only when they are in the open. If you're assaulting a squad that is in cover then flamers will probably perform better with auto-hit and multiple hits, potentially forcing more saves then the plasma pistols would. Of course, the pistols would reduce the save, but it is here that flamers win over the pistols, the ability to stack a lot of wounds onto a target.

 

What with pistols liable to overheat (I seem to have every plasma weapon in my army overheat at some point - plasma guns overheat once every turn!), and the increased points cost for a weapons that's only really more effective against tanks and MEQ out of cover, I don't think it's worth it. Of course, you do not a couple more attacks in combat which sometimes can make all the difference...

Firstly, "only good against MEQ" is still good for over half the armies you'll face.

 

Secondly, Plasma Pistols are not only good against MEQ. They are also good against Tyranid MCs, and supreme against Eldar as not only can they penetrate every vehicle they possess, they also inflict Instant Death on their T3. Same to a lesser extent goes for IG - Assault Squads are sufficiently mobile that you can easily get Side or Rear armour on a reliable basis.

 

The only thing that could be better would be having the Raptor's ability to take Meltaguns. Deep Striking Jump Infantry with Meltaguns? :D But apparently that's Heresy :(

[pueriexdeus]

The only thing that could be better would be having the Raptor's ability to take Meltaguns. Deep Striking Jump Infantry with Meltaguns? :D But apparently that's Heresy :(

 

If I recall a V3.5 pdf allowed MG's in the Assault Sqds. I only mention this because I do remember taking off the Jump Packs of two of my MG's. Bummed me out, they were nice against armor.

[Meatman]

Incidentally, what would you suggest if you were to field say, 30 assault marines? Would you recommend 2 x flamer + powerfist for all of them?

[DarkGuard]

I'm also not that impressed by the arguments for Flamers. While it's true that they are good vs. certain targets, those tend to be the targets that Assault Squads are naturally good at anyway - Low Save Hordes. Plasma Pistols add a lot of tactical flexibility for very little real loss.

 

Plasma pistols shine against MEQ, but only when they are in the open. If you're assaulting a squad that is in cover then flamers will probably perform better with auto-hit and multiple hits, potentially forcing more saves then the plasma pistols would. Of course, the pistols would reduce the save, but it is here that flamers win over the pistols, the ability to stack a lot of wounds onto a target.

 

What with pistols liable to overheat (I seem to have every plasma weapon in my army overheat at some point - plasma guns overheat once every turn!), and the increased points cost for a weapons that's only really more effective against tanks and MEQ out of cover, I don't think it's worth it. Of course, you do not a couple more attacks in combat which sometimes can make all the difference...

Firstly, "only good against MEQ" is still good for over half the armies you'll face.

 

Secondly, Plasma Pistols are not only good against MEQ. They are also good against Tyranid MCs, and supreme against Eldar as not only can they penetrate every vehicle they possess, they also inflict Instant Death on their T3. Same to a lesser extent goes for IG - Assault Squads are sufficiently mobile that you can easily get Side or Rear armour on a reliable basis.

 

The only thing that could be better would be having the Raptor's ability to take Meltaguns. Deep Striking Jump Infantry with Meltaguns? :D But apparently that's Heresy :(

 

Shame we can't get meltaguns, would be a fun choice.

 

OK, poor phrasing with "only good against MEQ" I admit. However, although plasma pistols can be good at taking out side and rear armour plus MCs, I wouldn't want to commit my Assault Marines to that task with that in mind, that's what I'd prefer my Attack Bikes and the odd lascannon to try and do. There are better units out there in the Marine Codex that can take out vehicles and MCs, such as the Rifleman Dread and the Combi-Pred, and do so for less of a price. With Assault Marines, you're looking to assault against targets that are smaller than yourself, only assaulting the elite if you manage to stack enough wounds on them beforehand, so it is here that the flamers are better than the plasma pistols.

 

Of course, it all comes down to what fits best in your army. I have a plasma gun and multi-melta in two Tactical Squads, a plasma cannon in another and two MM ABs, so I have vehicles and MEQ/MC covered. My army then benefits more from the anti-infantry flamers, giving me some weapons and a unit a role that the others don't have in my army.

 

I will accept that plasma pistols have their uses, but for their cost I just feel flamers can do better. After all, if you can't hurt the vehicle with your flamer your krak grenade (and the power fist) will always suffice.

 

Incidentally, what would you suggest if you were to field say, 30 assault marines? Would you recommend 2 x flamer + powerfist for all of them?

 

Only if the rest of your army has plasma cannons, plasma guns and melta weapons :)

 

In all seriousness, if you're using 3 Assault Squads in a game that isn't Apocalypse, I'd expect you to not have much points left for other units, so arm them to fill the gaps in your army. If you're short on MEQ then equip one with 3x plasma pistols, maybe equip two of them like that. This kind of relates to what I was saying to Koremu just now, equip your Assault Marines to cover what your army lacks. Some people (like me I suppose), will argue that the better configuration is 2x flamers and a power fist, but it comes down to how it synergises with the rest of your army. However, a power fist is always a must (unless you go for a thunder hammer of course).