Brother Mordeus Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Simple question, as i am building some scouts for my pre-heresy luna wolves, i was wondering if they looked any different from those today. The illustrations in Collected Visions show them as quit similar, but i suppose they did have some differences. And if any know what kind of squad markings they would have in a Luna Wolves army, cheers, Mordeus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I was under the impression that pre-heresy new recruits were put directly into power armour and sent to the front lines, whereas with the Codex Astartes Guilliman decreed a much more controlled and throrough training process for new members, as the accelerated methods for gene growth and recruitment used during the Great Crusade had made them vulnerable to Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2288934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Mordeus Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Ah thats interesting never heard of that view before. Hmm, well there are images of scouts in the collected visions, but it is true that they don't talk about scouts in the HH books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2289266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Keep in mind that the Codex Astartes didn't existed at that time, so scouts is not the same as recruits. They were more likely to very well trained elite units instead. But the HH gives the impression that they were an uncommon sight at the Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2289702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSion Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 doesnt loken mention something about the scout auxilia in one of the books apologies for the vagueness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2289806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I have been watching this thread with enthusiasm, but, yes there are no known references to Scouts Pre-heresy (Rogue Trader) as opposed to post heresy V2... I have dug around in my Rouge Trader book looking for references and have only found some images that might represent a Scout. Hope they shed some light for you. http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/pueriexdeus/scan0007.jpg http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/pueriexdeus/scan0008.jpg http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/pueriexdeus/scan0009.jpg http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/pueriexdeus/scan0010.jpg http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/pueriexdeus/scan0011.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2289984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Well, first of all, Rogue Trader is not taking place pre-heresy. It kinda is "pre-heresy", in that the background about Chaos Marines and the heresy did not initially exist when the first rulebook was released. The core rulebook is introduced by describing how the Emperor has sat on the golden throne for the past hundred centuries, though, so Rogue Trader was already set in the 41st Millennium. Space Marines were already organised in Chapters, though the Marines were all collectively refered to as the Legiones Astartes. Second, the Rogue Trader Rulebook did not have that much information on Marines, and only mentions Tactical Squads and Commanders as far as I know. I think Scouts were introduced with the "Advanced Space Crusade" board game, but I am not that profficient with the Rogue Trader era. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2290103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine God Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I have been watching this thread with enthusiasm, but, yes there are no known references to Scouts Pre-heresy (Rogue Trader) as opposed to post heresy V2... I have dug around in my Rouge Trader book looking for references and have only found some images that might represent a Scout. Hope they shed some light for you. http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/pueriexdeus/scan0008.jpg These are Squats! Doing what they do best, Killing Stuff!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2290154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Dog Studios Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 And smoking cigars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2290981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Thanks for those pics pueriexdeus, they are awesome and anyone posting a picture of a Squat will always be a friend of mine, but sadly they are only a little to do with Pre-heresy i feel. Expanding on what Legatus has already pointed out, GW have made a noble but not entirely successful attempt to retcon some of the Rogue Trader game rule history into what is now 'Pre-Heresy'. This can be seen most prominently in the Collected Visions books, with its 2nd edition Land Speeders, Tyranid-attack esque scouts, black-armoured Dark Angels and rhino/predator design amongst other things. More recently, in Raven's Flight, Corax is described as having the power to make himself 'invisible' per se, which is a reference to the old RT section detailing the powers of Primarchs (I believe the quote was something along the lines of "the Primarchs had great powers, such as the ability of flight or even to make themselves invisible." But, all in all if you wanted to make a list of differences between RT-era background, and what we now have been told about the Heresy, you could make a bloody long list! :rolleyes: For references on Scouts I would probably just go with whatever they have done in Collected Visions. At least you get a bit of choice with this (for example the World Eater scouts are presented as being both the older RT-esque knife and bolt pistol versions, as well as shadowy-type snipers). I would go for whichever you feel fits the character of your Luna Wolf force. As for the actual specifics of scouts pre-heresy, I see no reason to think that they are handled that much differently from the way they are by a 40k chapter. The Codex Astartes was a refinement and a summation of the knowledge that Gulliman had experienced during his life, and I can't imagine why he would suddenly come up with a radical suggestion for putting scouts into some kind of new unit or format that hadn't been tried and tested. It makes sense that marines get combat experience while their implants are forming, and for me the inclusion of power armoured 'recon' marines in Collected Visions suggests that they were still used in this way. After all, if you're going to put marines with the 'black carapace' into battle, why not put them in full power armour? Just my 2 flagons of Squattish ale on the matter ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2291051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Mojonir Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Page 158 of Collected Visions shows the Ultramarine scout squad Telcion, wearing power armor with modified backpack, looking to contain some components similar to a vox caster. Mk.VI power armor was the first with the ability to "power down" to lower the chances of auspex detection. This may have been reason for marines to get out of there power armor at times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2291294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Yeah, and by the HH books, novices joined the companies directly - at least in the Luna Wolves. And by calling scouts "auxilia" dunno if it could mean that they weren't astartes at all... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2291360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bifrons Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 And by calling scouts "auxilia" dunno if it could mean that they weren't astartes at all... I agree, regarding the Legions, the auxiliary troops would be imperial army units, local natives, and so on. There were a few old Rogue Trader scout models, with weird mohican haircuts and stuff, but old school doesn't mean pre-heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2292046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 OK, I thought I had most all the texts up to now. And I am missing Collected Visions never heard of it. So someone enlighten me. As far as Scouts go I would agree with the earlier mention that they were full blooded Space Marines in a unique position. Now V5??? With the GW retcon it will depend on the Chapter you play. Oh I so dislike the GW's failure to stay abreast of their own game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2292253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Here you go mate, Collected Visions. The only place I think you can buy it: Games Workshop website (although you may be able to pick up a copy in-store). It was originally available in 4 separate volumes but is now in one handy collection for a lower price. I really can't recommend it highly enough if you're thinking of getting into Pre-Heresy - the artwork inside it is amazing and really inspirational. Many people, myself included, started on Pre-Heresy because of this book. It's also co-written by Alan Merrett, the mastermind of the current Horus Heresy book series, and the person that all the writers are going through when they meet up to discuss plot ideas. So, while the story inside isn't massively detailed, it will give you some idea of what to expect from the series as it progresses. The GW retcon position is a difficult one - things had changed in the background so much by the time 2nd edition was released it was always going to be hard to tie everything together. If you think that marines were just chemically-hardened psychopaths (think Sardakur from Dune), there was no mention of Genetic engineering, nor of founding Legions or Chapters. Leman Russ was a Commander, not a Primarch for instance. The whole genetic engineering and T4 didn't come in for marines until the 40k compilation (which caused a bit of an outcry haha.. ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2292343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Pacific81: Thanks for the feedback. Though I'll have to wait to spend the $$$ on the book. Right now I'm all over the Tech Dread $$$ wise. Not to mention I still have to finish the remaining six for my DA Ancient Assault Force. Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2292358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormchaserKnight Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 From what I can remember from "Horus Rising," Loken mentions recruiting fresh Astartes from the Scout Auxillia. In my mind, it seems that Scouts fulfilled more or less the same role pre-heresy as they do now, only they where more separated from the Legion, almost a singular fighting force in their own right. As far as looks go, I would imagine they would not look all that different from the current scout models, although I'm tempted to experiment with scout legs and arms, and Cadian torsos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2299038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 From what I can remember from "Horus Rising," Loken mentions recruiting fresh Astartes from the Scout Auxillia. In my mind, it seems that Scouts fulfilled more or less the same role pre-heresy as they do now, only they where more separated from the Legion, almost a singular fighting force in their own right. As far as looks go, I would imagine they would not look all that different from the current scout models, although I'm tempted to experiment with scout legs and arms, and Cadian torsos. I remember Loken saying about taking the novices in the tac squads to be full-fledged astartes, but I don't remember the scouts being mentioned in the same context. An specific quote from the book with a page number could help us here a lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192761-looks-of-pre-heresy-scouts/#findComment-2299160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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