jmlee Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well. I played a game today and the guy I played apparently disagreed that my berzerker skull champs chain axes don't count as power weapons. I argued with him about it for a good while. Well, apparently Khârn has the only power chain axe in existence. He says since the rule book describes ccw as chainswords and axes then in game they are only normal ccws. Is that stupid or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmlee Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Anyways, let's try to make a list of weapons, chain axes and swords or otherwise and that are power weapons. I'm talking not conventional hammers/claws/swords etc. I mean sure they're not crackling with electricity, but theyer so huge and freakin massivly deadly that they count as power weapons! Now I know most people don't care. I just wanna show this guy hey! Just because the rulebook doesn't mention it doesn't mean it doesn't exist! I've got fulgrim and Khârn so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Chaos Terminators used to have chainaxe powerweapons. The newer plastics have regular poweraxes instead. As long as you tell your opponent at the beginning of the game, and as long as the skull champion is clearly distinguishable from the rest of the squad, a chaonaxe should be fine. If you did not tell him in advance and then surprised him when the squad was in combat I could understand that he was complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Just because the rulebook doesn't mention it doesn't mean it doesn't exist! Yes, yes it does that is why it is called a rulebook. Khârn’s is special because the teeth are made out of some kind of super metal that lets it cut through anything. There are weapons like the Witch Hunter’s “Eviscerator” which is a giant chain sword but also known for being a power weapon (power fist). Honestly the game does run by WYSIWYG he is within his right to complain. If the model that you are talking about is one of the three metal Skull Champions none of them have a power weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 If you paid the points for a power weapon, its a power weapon. If you didn't make that clear that the champ's chainaxe counted as a power weapon then he had a case. If you did, he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kable Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 As long as you tell your opponent at the beginning of the game, and as long as the skull champion is clearly distinguishable from the rest of the squad, a chain axe should be fine. If you did not tell him in advance and then surprised him when the squad was in combat I could understand that he was complaining. I agree. There's nothing wrong with subbing a weapon with another as long as you inform your opponent. I have a Khorne terminator lord with two chain axes which are counts as lightning claws. I informed my mates of it and they have no problem and even my local GW staff members had no problems. I think opponents who over react to strongly to situations like that take things to seriously. Some people just are not worth playing sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgerer Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I agree. There's nothing wrong with subbing a weapon with another as long as you inform your opponent. I have a Khorne terminator lord with two chain axes which are counts as lightning claws. I informed my mates of it and they have no problem and even my local GW staff members had no problems. I think opponents who over react to strongly to situations like that take things to seriously. Some people just are not worth playing sometimes. Agreed. And eaven if you dont inform your opponent but have the army list with you, there should be no problems. Its a bit meh to complain about stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 WYSIWYG-wise I don't think that it wouldn't fly in many tournaments. I'd have no problem with it in a friendly match however, as long as it was clearly stated before the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmlee Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well, he knew before hand. He only started complaining when I got into cc with him. They are plastics, I can change their axes with power swords if I need to, but those just don't look berzerkerish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seregon Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 If he knew beforehand that they were count-as power weapons/lightning claws and accepted it, and still complained well into the game I'm sad to say he's a douchebag. Though I'd probably make another set of arms with real lightning claws to use if you are to enter a tournament sometime, just to get it WYSIWYG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrex Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I agree. With Khorne, the metal Skull Champs only have two models with power weapons. The rest of them have pretty big chain axes, and there is a precedent for chain axes counting as power weapons. I've got a Khorne Terminator sporting one from the factory right now. If you have a character model with an imposing looking chainaxe, there's no reason why it can't count as a power weapon, particularly since you inform your opponent of what it is at the beginning of the game. Even says in the rulebook players might want to substitute different weapon load outs without changing the model. I have a metal chainaxe champion that I count as having a power weapon myself, but mostly I get stuck playing people with unpainted plastics, so it's not like they really care anyway. That being said, I think if you're concerned with having a really nice army, you'll model everything appropriately. My Black Templar army is entirely WYSIWYG. Everything is fully painted and modeled appropriately. I'd do the same thing with my World Eaters, but it is really just difficult to get the right parts sometimes for those older sculpts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmlee Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Ya I keep my stiff wysiwyg. I just figured the huge chainaxes they have would be viewed as power weapons. A zerker with a little power sword just looks wierd if you ask me. His big thing was in the ccw section it says they are commonly chainswords or chainaxes. So he's like its a chainaxe so its a normal ccw! Which eventually I gave in and said whatever. And then I lost combat because only 5 were left when they charged, and I killed 3 marines. Shouldve been more like 5 or 6 with a power wep. And his returns killed 4, and I took my save and lost the last one. Made a huge difference in the outcome! Oh well. I'm off to change the weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 If you paid thge 15 pts tp make it a PW then it was a PW. If your opponent argued with that then he is indeed stupid, and a :cuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kythnos Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 If you paid thge 15 pts tp make it a PW then it was a PW. If your opponent argued with that then he is indeed stupid, and a :cuss. Not if he didn't tell him before the game - and I read it like he didn't. Because knowing of a power weapon makes some difference to you tactical decisions and maybe he wouldn't have let him charge at all. Stuff like that. I think it's just a stupid situation which arose out of a lack of pre-game communication and none of them should be called a stupid :cuss because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmlee Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Yes I did tell him. He spent 5 minutes looking at my list as well after I told him. I think he just forgot, hence the its not wysiwyg deal. And I do not appreciate being called a liar, bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kythnos Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well, in this case he was just a bad sportsman about it and it should have been him who agreed and not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmlee Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Oh well.I already changed the weapons so I guess it doesn't matter any more ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp space Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well, he knew before hand. He only started complaining when I got into cc with him. They are plastics, I can change their axes with power swords if I need to, but those just don't look berzerkerish. have you tried to model your skull champion's to be bigger or more spiffy than the rest. just a thought. Trully i agree with the rest here if you warned him he should have no problem with it. I am personally a nut for WYSIWYG, but i understand not being such in friendly games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kable Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Funnily enough in white dwarf 333 (the issue on the Chaos Releases) there is a sample army with a squad of berserkers listed in it with skull champion and power weapon. But if you look through the squad the SC isn't really identifiable and doesn't appear have a power weapon. I think if you haven't converted the appropriate model for the SC you could just nominate one of your zerkers if you wish. Personally i would convert one up for the fun of it, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronWinds Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 You could always paint the teeth of the chainaxe to look like they are glowing. Then paint the rest of the axe different from your other chainaxes. That would be my solution in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 If he knew beforehand that they were count-as power weapons/lightning claws and accepted it, and still complained well into the game I'm sad to say he's a douchebag. Though I'd probably make another set of arms with real lightning claws to use if you are to enter a tournament sometime, just to get it WYSIWYG. I agree if he was ok with it then he shouldn't complain so yes he is a douchebag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmlee Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 Eh I just put the sword that's in the scabbard on him. He's still holding the chainaxe, but now there's a sword on him that he can pull out lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 If you paid thge 15 pts tp make it a PW then it was a PW. If your opponent argued with that then he is indeed stupid, and a :cuss. agreed.I have a similar problem here,but with power fists.I have two skull champions,one with a double headed chain axe and another with a one-handed eviscerator,counts as power fists,and some times I hear nonsense things like:-My skull champion is equipped with a power fist..´-that's no a power fist!!and I said:is a conversion,I paid it.-No,no, a power fist is a FIST,it can't be a very big axe!(:tu:???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 You could always paint the teeth of the chainaxe to look like they are glowing. Then paint the rest of the axe different from your other chainaxes. That would be my solution in this situation. +1 This... Agreed, if you want to do a counts as, that's not a problem in my book. If you model it or paint it differently, even better. I agree confirmation at the start of the match is always a good call, but if you can specifically mark your models accordingly, that way your opponent has even less of a reason to get nit-picky. If you want to switch them around between normal and power.. tipex the base rim with PW or PF or ChAx... etc. Just my thoughts :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmlee Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 Well, I changed the situation. After a game, I realized to my dismay that I couldn't do anything against dreads. Well! After some cutting, my plague marine champs now have chainswords )I never use them except to absorb fire on home objectives anyway) and my 3 skull champs have power fists. And strength 10 on the charge, heck yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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