White Hunter Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 So I love everything about the thunder wolf cav, except that I don't want my wolf lord/wolf guard riding a wolf. I just can't get over space marines riding wolves. So I was wondering if there was any way to model thunder wolf cav without making my marines ride them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadir Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 A few scattered through this forum: Big Wulfen, model with cyber fen wolves on chains, tooled up bike rider, metal war beast (jugernaut, wolfie dread as an example). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
saphius Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I thought about doing a model with a marine like stalking or hunched over with a wolf doing the same along side him and putting both of them on the same base. - Basically having a dismounted marine next to his mount - you could do the same but with all your cav models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf363839 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I like the idea of using a SM Bike to substitute for the wolf. Would you recommend using greenstuff or bits to somewhat build it up and separate it from normal bikes? Or do you think a few extra wolfy totems on the bike is enough to separate the two unit types? I would really like to see if anybody has pics of their substitute TWC models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I hate to be the guy who rains on the parade, as their have been a few cool alternate conversions that I don't really want to dis because a great deal of effort went through them, and they look great... But I think this line of thought is super lame. Either do it right or don't do it at all. Don't make some cheesy model that doesn't make sense because you want to power game the benefits, don't be the guy who frustrates me because I can't figure out what the hell you're deploying (Wulfen, Fenrisian Wolves w\ handlers counts as, bikes counting as, uh...). If you're going to do it, at least have them riding something with four-legs, so they resemble cavalry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fenrisian Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Use plastic Chaos Knights. Just take off the spikes and remove the chaos icons. They look pretty good and it's a lot better than shelling out a crap load of cash on a 3rd party idea. That's what I went for my cheap alternative until GW/FW make some (if at all). Failing that, use the DC Heroclix Hammer of Thor Fenris Wolf. I believe that's what it's called. That seems to be the right scale. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanyPrawny Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I'm tempted to do a guy on a quad style bike for mine, not that I'd run one but it would give me more incentive as I run mech wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhellion Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 But I think this line of thought is super lame. Either do it right or don't do it at all. Don't make some cheesy model that doesn't make sense because you want to power game the benefits, don't be the guy who frustrates me because I can't figure out what the hell you're deploying (Wulfen, Fenrisian Wolves w\ handlers counts as, bikes counting as, uh...). If you're going to do it, at least have them riding something with four-legs, so they resemble cavalry. I agree 100%. A BIKE doesn't get you +1 strength, toughness, and attacks. It's not a vicious, large creature you are riding. Bikes move 12". They aren't beasts / cavalry. A foot troop with a wolf, or a wulfen model counts-as isn't a giant wolf, and isn't worth granting all of the bonuses and the 12" charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Hunter Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 I hate to be the guy who rains on the parade, as their have been a few cool alternate conversions that I don't really want to dis because a great deal of effort went through them, and they look great... But I think this line of thought is super lame. Either do it right or don't do it at all. Don't make some cheesy model that doesn't make sense because you want to power game the benefits, don't be the guy who frustrates me because I can't figure out what the hell you're deploying (Wulfen, Fenrisian Wolves w\ handlers counts as, bikes counting as, uh...). If you're going to do it, at least have them riding something with four-legs, so they resemble cavalry. I understand your thoughts, and I really am torn between using them and not. On one hand as you said do it as written stick to the fluff and accept that Space Wolves ride...wolves, make T-wolf models so no one gets confused. However, on the other hand just because I don't like the model/concept of Thunderwolf Cav, I don't want to lose out on maybe the best unit in our codex, (If that's powergaming I admit to it). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athalus Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 The best conversions I have seen are one's on juggernauts. They look really good, and are awesome if you are doing it as 13th company (as you really don't have any access to thunder wolves =P). And if the models GW comes out with, whenever the hell that is, are as ugly as Canis, you are better off converting =P. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf363839 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Folks are arguing that a converted/bigger bike doesn't match the fluff or is undeserving of the +1's it hands out, but does RIDING A WOLF really make ANY sense at all? It is ridiculous, just like GW's attempt to play it off in the codex that they were there all along. Basing a model more in the realm of possibility doesn't detract from the game, it adds to it. Obviously, if you were to make a bike-riding TWC then the bike itself should befit the stats and be something fearsome looking. I also like the idea of a model walking/running alongside a large wolf, as they can work in tandem to earn those +1's too. Let's not kill good ideas because they don't match YOUR idea of coolness... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophecy Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Am I the only space wolf player who LOVES the idea of beer drinking, power-armor wearing, genetic supermen-vikings with a tendency towards lycanthropy riding around on unstoppable killing machines of animalistic rage? You talk about the realm of possibility? WHAT in this universe is grounded in possibility? Is it the unstoppable horde of robot-skeletons? Or maybe the H.R. Giger/Zerg love-babies? Perhaps it's the blood drinking, power-armor wearing, genetic supermen-vampires with anger-management issues whose daddy had wings? Possibly the race of psychic space elves, and their spikier sex-crazed cousins? Do any of us even want to bring up the little blue men and their mecha? >.< Hi. My name (pseudonym) is Prophecy. I like thunderwolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Grimfang Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 IMHO the best way to do this is having fenrisian wolves being held back on chained leashes by WG handlers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I like Thunderwolves. However, I want my thunderwolves to have varying and dynamic poses. Canis is a nice model. But I don't want to pay £125.00 for five Thunderwolf riders with too similar looking mounts. I am hoping the Forgeworld will release something to help us out but in the meantime I would like to find something that looks good and will allow me to represent the Thunderwolf Cavalry until proper models are released. Last night I played the Thunderwolf Cavalry for the first time, and represented them with Rackham Wolfen from the confrontation system. I cut out suitable sized bases for them, the same size as Canis Wolfborn's base, Their height is (as near as makes no difference) the same as Canis Wolfborn's. Glued some grenade belts to one to represent meltabombs, and I found some sparkling wine bottle caps made suitable stormshields. Sure these are not GW sanctioned models and not likely to be supported my any tournaments, but as a temporary solution, I thought they worked out reasonably well. As far as I am concerned Height and Base size are the most important aspects to consider, if it is about the same size as Canis Wolfborn and you can easily display weapons on the model, then it should be okay. If you can do this with GW models then it should be tournuy themament legal. As for my battle last night verses Necrons, Thunderwolves destroyed x2 four man squads of Necron Destroyers and x2 squads on Necron warriors (that came in from reserves after both squads of Destroyers were wiped out). The only only casualities my 1500point force inflicted was my predator killed x2 Heavy destroyers and Jaws of the World wolf killed x2 immortals. I lost x2 Fenrisian wolves and x2 Thunderwolves and my Vindicator was immbolised and weap destroyed AND a rhino immbolised itself. When models are released... I'll definitely buy them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2289999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Folks are arguing that a converted/bigger bike doesn't match the fluff or is undeserving of the +1's it hands out, but does RIDING A WOLF really make ANY sense at all? It is ridiculous, just like GW's attempt to play it off in the codex that they were there all along. Basing a model more in the realm of possibility doesn't detract from the game, it adds to it. Obviously, if you were to make a bike-riding TWC then the bike itself should befit the stats and be something fearsome looking. I also like the idea of a model walking/running alongside a large wolf, as they can work in tandem to earn those +1's too. Let's not kill good ideas because they don't match YOUR idea of coolness... My complaints have nothing to do with anything coolness, and everything to do with looking down at the table and recognizing it's supposed to be. bikes are bikes. fenrisian wolves being walked by marines... are, well, fenrisian wolves. cavalry is cavalry. My argument is have a marine riding something on four legs, or don't do anything at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 just use horses and dont take note of all those guys who bang on it for it not being realistic. Its a game... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 But I think this line of thought is super lame. Either do it right or don't do it at all. Don't make some cheesy model that doesn't make sense because you want to power game the benefits, don't be the guy who frustrates me because I can't figure out what the hell you're deploying (Wulfen, Fenrisian Wolves w\ handlers counts as, bikes counting as, uh...). If you're going to do it, at least have them riding something with four-legs, so they resemble cavalry. I don't think you understand what 'power game' means if you think it only has to do with what models to use to represent a unit on the tabletop. The OP wants to field the Cav anyways, but doesn't like the idea of marines riding wolves and wants a stand in. Besides, I can't think of a unit in any Marine codex aside from Space Wolves that uses multiple models on 60mm bases, so it's not like you'd confuse it with a unit of Bikers or Fenrisian Wolves. To the OP, how about pre-Heresy jetbikes? The toughness and extra wound could be accounted for with the bike's shield array or what-have-you, and the S5 could be chalked up to momentum build up from the bikes moving so fast. You'd be stuck playing a PH or 13th Company list, however, in terms of fluff. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCanuk Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I hate to be the guy who rains on the parade, as their have been a few cool alternate conversions that I don't really want to dis because a great deal of effort went through them, and they look great... But I think this line of thought is super lame. Either do it right or don't do it at all. Don't make some cheesy model that doesn't make sense because you want to power game the benefits, don't be the guy who frustrates me because I can't figure out what the hell you're deploying (Wulfen, Fenrisian Wolves w\ handlers counts as, bikes counting as, uh...). If you're going to do it, at least have them riding something with four-legs, so they resemble cavalry. Don't listen to this person. It's your money, it's your models and it's your game. If you want to convert up a bike and claim it's a thunderwolf stand in then you do that. GW is nto releasing a model so you have to do what you have to do to get it done. Don't let nay sayers nay say because what your doing is not what they want to see in their warhammer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 My complaints have nothing to do with anything coolness, and everything to do with looking down at the table and recognizing ;) it's supposed to be. bikes are bikes. fenrisian wolves being walked by marines... are, well, fenrisian wolves. cavalry is cavalry. My argument is have a marine riding something on four legs, or don't do anything at all. So you want to throw counts-as out of the window? Fine, He'Stan can only be taken by Salamanders, Telion can only be used in an Ultramarines list, only armies modeled as Space Wolves can use the SW codex. Pedantic? Yes, but that's the impression you're giving me. All it take is a minute or two at the beginning of the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammon Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 @ Wispy. If the only thing offended are your sensibilities then don't rain on the parade. Besides if some one uses a counts as model they will tell you what it is so that should solve any issue. Try using heavily modeled Chaos bikers. trick them out a little bit. As far as bikes go I figured those would be closer to the thunderwolf because they have a habit of becoming possessed. The Juggernaut of Khorne with an added wolf tail would also be a good one. The Uber Wulfen is the idea that I might try. I have several warlord models and a lot of GW Wolfy bits fit perfectly on them, not to mention they also can use the GW bases makes it easy to convert a few without a hell of a lot of hassle. Might lop of an arm and give one a powerfist for giggles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Alternatively: A Iron Priest's take on Praetorian combat servitors: reverse-jointed legs or adrenaline plug-ins to account for the 12" assault range and fleet, with various weapons to represent chainswords/Fists/Thunder Hammers, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhellion Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 So you want to throw counts-as out of the window? Fine, He'Stan can only be taken by Salamanders, Telion can only be used in an Ultramarines list, only armies modeled as Space Wolves can use the SW codex. Pedantic? Yes, but that's the impression you're giving me. All it take is a minute or two at the beginning of the game. Except the Space Marine Codex states it is allowed to use the characters in other lists, and they still have to be modeled. You aren't throwing down an AoBR Captain and saying "this is Calgar". That's what throwing down a BIKE and saying "this is my Thunderwolf Cavalry". No.... it's a BIKE. There is an entry for BIKES in your Codex. WYSIWYG. I need to see a Cavalry model for it to be cavalry. In a friendly game I'd allow it to test out rules. In any sort of competitive game, absolutely not. Just the same as my Gatorade bottle isn't being used as a Dreadnought anytime soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 But what if they're relic jetbikes? :ph34r: EDIT: Are you seriously comparing using a gatorade bottle as a Dreadnought to converting up a replacement model? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusthetraitor Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 WYSIWYG. I need to see a Cavalry model for it to be cavalry. In a friendly game I'd allow it to test out rules. In any sort of competitive game, absolutely not. Just the same as my Gatorade bottle isn't being used as a Dreadnought anytime soon. So if I threw these down on the table and said, "Hi Rhellion, these are my counts-as Thunderwolf Cavalry. They are on large bases, and I use multiple models and the armament of the Space Wolves on the base to justify the slight stat upgrades over a standard marine," you would have a problem? I'm having trouble deciding exactly where you are coming from. Is it an aesthetic decision? I just don't understand why you would be upset at someone else coming up with their own crack at a model that isn't even released by GW. Can you honestly compare what I have modeled with a gatorade bottle? Magnus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Folks are arguing that a converted/bigger bike doesn't match the fluff or is undeserving of the +1's it hands out, but does RIDING A WOLF really make ANY sense at all? It is ridiculous, just like GW's attempt to play it off in the codex that they were there all along. Basing a model more in the realm of possibility doesn't detract from the game, it adds to it. Obviously, if you were to make a bike-riding TWC then the bike itself should befit the stats and be something fearsome looking. I also like the idea of a model walking/running alongside a large wolf, as they can work in tandem to earn those +1's too. Let's not kill good ideas because they don't match YOUR idea of coolness... My complaints have nothing to do with anything coolness, and everything to do with looking down at the table and recognizing :ph34r: it's supposed to be. bikes are bikes. fenrisian wolves being walked by marines... are, well, fenrisian wolves. cavalry is cavalry. My argument is have a marine riding something on four legs, or don't do anything at all. As stated, count as is big in the hobby. Your opponent should be very explicate if they are not fielding WYSIWYG models. If they are not doing that, then there is a bigger model. ------------ With respect to the sentiment that marines riding large beasts is ridiculous.... All of 40k is pretty ridiculous. And I would say that a force who venerates a wolf, and uses them in large packs, would certainly utilize a larger version which is on atomic steroids and able to rend most foes to pulp. I just don't see space wolves leaving those at home when they are about to face fungal spewing orks, Sourgorney weaver xenos things on crack, and pointy eared space elves. The real problem, which many knew during the rumor phase when thunderwolves were first revealed, is that GW really had to pull the model off since there are many detractors. They failed with the canis wolf. (although the more I look at it, and upon seeing some of the Dave T. conversions and others on this board, I don't think the Canis model is that bad) --------------- Back on topic, One of the ideas I like is 3-4 Wulfen Models to represent one thunder wolf with space marine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/192790-making-a-good-thunderwolf-modelwithout-the-thunderwolf/#findComment-2290519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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