Making a good Thunderwolf model...without the thunderwolf

[Grimtooth]

So you want to throw counts-as out of the window?

 

Fine, He'Stan can only be taken by Salamanders, Telion can only be used in an Ultramarines list, only armies modeled as Space Wolves can use the SW codex.

 

Pedantic? Yes, but that's the impression you're giving me. All it take is a minute or two at the beginning of the game.

 

 

Except the Space Marine Codex states it is allowed to use the characters in other lists, and they still have to be modeled.

 

You aren't throwing down an AoBR Captain and saying "this is Calgar". That's what throwing down a BIKE and saying "this is my Thunderwolf Cavalry". No.... it's a BIKE. There is an entry for BIKES in your Codex.

 

WYSIWYG. I need to see a Cavalry model for it to be cavalry. In a friendly game I'd allow it to test out rules. In any sort of competitive game, absolutely not. Just the same as my Gatorade bottle isn't being used as a Dreadnought anytime soon.

 

By your standard I could get a cavalry model, convert it into what I think is a thunderwolf, and you could still say it isn't a thunderwolf because..........wait for it...........wait for it...........,

 

GW HAS NOT RELEASED A THUNDERWOLF CAVALRY MODEL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

/sigh

/facepalm

 

Avoid this guy like the plague at your LGS. He will WYSIWYG your models to death for not having krak grenades and MotW represented on your models.

[Grimtooth]

I like Thunderwolves.

 

However, I want my thunderwolves to have varying and dynamic poses. Canis is a nice model. But I don't want to pay £125.00 for five Thunderwolf riders with too similar looking mounts.

 

Sorry Coverfire. By the standard set by a couple of folks in this thread, even buying 5 Canis models you would not get to play them as Thunderwolves since per RAW Canis is not riding a TWM, he is riding Fangir.

 

You zink zos are Thunderwolvez? ZEY ARE NOT! - Colonel Klink

[MagneticFreak]

One of my fellow friend came up one day with soldiers riding bicycles. Really...a soldier riding into battle with an old style bicycle. He was claiming these were Rough Riders.

 

It was a bit to much. Altough comic relief is great sometimes, I like the game to be somewhat serious. Its for the same reason I could not proceed with Orks.

 

So I can imagine a player not being very enthusiastic about all the conversions that seen here and there.

 

But sadly, you just have to live with it. I love converting my models, and when its done properly, it adds so much to the game.

[Rhellion]

But what if they're relic jetbikes? :angry:

 

EDIT: Are you seriously comparing using a gatorade bottle as a Dreadnought to converting up a replacement model?

 

I responded to one extreme with another, and the response that Telion can ONLY be used in Ultramarines, or Vulcan can ONLY be used in Salamander. That is a different situation as outlined in the Space Marine Codex than using "counts-as" to use a model that represents something it doesn't even look like remotely.

[Rhellion]

By your standard I could get a cavalry model, convert it into what I think is a thunderwolf, and you could still say it isn't a thunderwolf because..........wait for it...........wait for it...........,

 

GW HAS NOT RELEASED A THUNDERWOLF CAVALRY MODEL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

/sigh

/facepalm

 

Avoid this guy like the plague at your LGS. He will WYSIWYG your models to death for not having krak grenades and MotW represented on your models.

 

Not in the slightest. I love the conversions I've seen of Juggernauts, or High Elf Lions, or resin wolves off ebay, or the new ones I saw pictures of today from MrDandy, or the Circle of Orbos wolves, or even Hero Clicks wolves.

 

They are actually WYSIWYG. Thunderwolf Cavalry, not 3-4 models on a base that are not cavalry that magically charge 12"... for what reason again? Or bikes that now move 6" and charge 12" instead... what is the explanation for that?

[Hfran Morkai]

That is a different situation as outlined in the Space Marine Codex than using "counts-as" to use a model that represents something it doesn't even look like remotely.

 

Huge wolves on leads still look like wolves, want to know what happens when you happen to let go?

 

What about Chaos players who I saw mentioning the other day they simply use gargoyle heads on bolters to represent combi-weapons? Because apparently then you get to choose what weapon you want it to represent. I've never seen a combi-weapon look like that, in fact if I see someone using that technique I'll just say they are comibi-bolters, because they're not combi-weapons.

 

This is a hobby with our own interpretations and about using our creativity, the OP doesn't want wolf riders so he doesn't have to have them. Thirty seconds explaining something is fine, perhaps not for Tournaments but not everyone plays tournaments.

[Rhellion]

This is a hobby with our own interpretations and about using our creativity, the OP doesn't want wolf riders so he doesn't have to have them. Thirty seconds explaining something is fine, perhaps not for Tournaments but not everyone plays tournaments.

 

Really, I am talking about what I think should go in a Tournament setting. I don't care in friendly games. I've SEEN pop can drop pods and gatorade bottle dreadnoughts. It's funny, but it would NOT be funny in a tournament to line up against an entire Kroot army, to find out it is instead a "counts-as" Ork army and you have no idea which guns are rockets, shootas, etc. I've seen this happen. Tournaments should be strictly WYSIWYG.

 

Even then, unless I am running the tournament (which I would not be), I would defer to the organizer. I dropped out of the tournament before the event where they allowed the counts-as Kroot-just-kidding-Orks.

[Grimtooth]

By your standard I could get a cavalry model, convert it into what I think is a thunderwolf, and you could still say it isn't a thunderwolf because..........wait for it...........wait for it...........,

 

GW HAS NOT RELEASED A THUNDERWOLF CAVALRY MODEL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

/sigh

/facepalm

 

Avoid this guy like the plague at your LGS. He will WYSIWYG your models to death for not having krak grenades and MotW represented on your models.

 

Not in the slightest. I love the conversions I've seen of Juggernauts, or High Elf Lions, or resin wolves off ebay, or the new ones I saw pictures of today from MrDandy, or the Circle of Orbos wolves, or even Hero Clicks wolves.

 

They are actually WYSIWYG. Thunderwolf Cavalry, not 3-4 models on a base that are not cavalry that magically charge 12"... for what reason again? Or bikes that now move 6" and charge 12" instead... what is the explanation for that?

 

They are not WYSIWYG since GW has not released a TWM model.

 

See, someone else can be just as pedantic about it. Which ends up being the more sporting, playable, and fun position on this matter?

[Rhellion]

They are not WYSIWYG since GW has not released a TWM model.

 

See, someone else can be just as pedantic about it. Which ends up being the more sporting, playable, and fun position on this matter?

 

Except they are, because they are a marine riding cavalry. What you see (marine cavalry) is what you are getting.

 

Marines holding Fenrisian wolves on chains look like Fenrisian Wolves, not marines riding cavalry.

4 Wulfen on a base look like 4 infantry Blood Claws or other marines, not marines riding cavalry.

What you see (infantry models, or fenrisian wolves) is not what you are getting.

[Grimtooth]

This must just then be an affront to all the you find decent and acceptable:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=190350

[Marmande]

Kroot used as Orkz would be perfectly fine as long as there's a clear way of distinguishes wargear. I certainly wouldn't protest by dropping out of tournament, if anything.

 

EDIT: For example, Rhellion, how would you feel about this:

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2775/4368587748_c2641e86e2_o.jpg

[Rhellion]

This must just then be an affront to all the you find decent and acceptable:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=190350

 

Again you miss the point. Those models are modeled with terminator armor and the weapons they represent.

[Grimtooth]

I think other then the new set that Capt Nuss has created, my second best conversion for TWM has been the Dire Wolves on chains. Granted that I am working on getting some from Nuss (he is in Germany, I am in US), I would tackle the dire wolves conversion next in a heartbeat to represent TWM.

[Marmande]

Again you miss the point. Those models are modeled with terminator armor and the weapons they represent.

 

They are obviously not wearing Terminator armor. Or much else, for that matter.

[stinkenheim]

can we please get back on topic and not descend into flaming each other.

The OP askedwhat they could use instead of marines riding wolves as they dislike the idea, i therefore assume marines riding horses is also not what he is looking for.

 

as has been said, some options include mounting several wulfen on a large base. The wulfen are fast moving, stronger thn a normal marine and savage and therefore fit in reasonably well with the TWC rules.

Larger bikes could be used, bulk them out, add spikes/scythes on them to represent the bonus strength/rending, maybe some sort of turbo booster for fleet. Make the riders seem more fera and bestial, drape them in pelts, but above all make them look different to your normal bikes (if any are being used in your army)

Wolves and marines co-existing on a base like an example above, the marines have the wargear and the wolves are.... well wolves. It works and it looks different from normal wolves, even better if you use say chaos hounds as normal wolves and then the dire wolves/circle of orborus (spl?) wolves for te TWC as they are different sizes and have different visual impact.

Some use juggernauts/dognaughts as cybernetic mounts and this works pretty well, although is quite costly.

 

there are many things you could use, and i assume it is for regular games and not tournaments, in which case people should be more open to different things. A quick chat with your opponent is normally all thatsneeded, maybe have a bit of paper with TWC written on it that you keep next to the unit until your opponent is familiar with your 'count-as' models.

 

in tournaments its best to talk to the organiser before you turn up as some have pretty strong rules on whats legal or not, some may insist you use the Canis model as the basis for all of them as that is the only Thunderwolf model available, others may accept different 'count-as' models based on their personal opinions. either way, ask first with tournaments.

 

@MagneticFreak really, thats an awesome idea. lol. i used to use cadians on motorbikes for my cityfight rough riders, they each had close combat weapons, flamer tanks for a 'nitro booster' to represent the fleet and improved charge and random other bits. they fitted well with the rest of the army and never confused anyone, but if i had found bicylces for them i would have done it in a flash as i like the humourous side of it... still your've cheered me up with that image :D

[Marmande]

Fair enough then. So, for the OP, we've come up with ideas for:

 

-Marines leading personal packs of Fenrisian Wolves (would be a bit confusing if you ran a unit of Fen. Wolves, however.)

-Wulfen (Not a bad idea at all, really)

-Jet bikes (Cavalry movement rules could be used to represent the unreliability of the engine due to age, while the momentum gained could account for the S5 with the advanced protection offers explains the T5 and 2 wounds. Just be sure they're on the 60mm base)

-Iron Priest Praetorian Combat Servitors

-Juggernaughts

 

Any others?

[Grimtooth]

I think one of the things that GW promotes are army lists that people have not only just copied down from the book, but also have modeled a bit of their personality into the models.

 

With the "lost companies" and such that allow the player to create a custom SW company, some liberties need to allowed to account for fluff.

 

Dognoughts/modifed bikes/jetbikes as TWM go well with a heavily mechanized force.

Juggers or Wulfen on bases as TWM go well with a 13th Co themed force.

Chained wolves just go well since you really cannot confuse them as anything else in the list and they are unique in themselves.

 

The point being is not everyone is going to be a master modeler or have the cash to plunk down a few squads of Canis clones. No one here is even suggesting dropping a plastic squeak dog toy on the table and say it is a TWM, just that TWM can be represented in many more ways then just a cavalry wolf.

[Grimtooth]

Fair enough then. So, for the OP, we've come up with ideas for:

 

-Marines leading personal packs of Fenrisian Wolves (would be a bit confusing if you ran a unit of Fen. Wolves, however.)

-Wulfen (Not a bad idea at all, really)

-Jet bikes (Cavalry movement rules could be used to represent the unreliability of the engine due to age, while the momentum gained could account for the S5 with the advanced protection offers explains the T5 and 2 wounds. Just be sure they're on the 60mm base)

-Iron Priest Praetorian Combat Servitors

-Juggernaughts

 

Any others?

 

That one point I would say would never happen. A pack of dire wolves (which I used to rep my 13th Co fenwolves) on the rectangular cavalry bases they come with would no way be confused with the example of the chained wolves:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s89/Grimtooth_photos/m1184737_99120207014_VCDireWolvesMa.jpg

and

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fxjUg4AnZnw/S2kRDRM607I/AAAAAAAAAWA/vXG3QU4Ino0/s1600/Thunderwolf%20Cavalry%20profile.JPG

[Marmande]

I wasn't referring to bases, but to the models themselves. Are your Fenrisian Wolves painted and modeled the same way? If so, it could lead to some confusion at the game table.

[Thontos]

some of my own attempts at Thunderwolves that you might be interested in

 

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/SteelShade/Space%20Wolves/IMG_4417.jpg

my first attempt, funny part was that I didn't have to cut the legs they fit right on with a little push.

 

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/SteelShade/Space%20Wolves/IMG_4420.jpg

second attempt, I realized that the dire wolf was too small so I tried to make it larger. the white clay is just a cheap clay I was using as a filler and then I was going to put green stuff over it to make the fur. But while working on this I decided I want to know just how well thunder wolves are going to do in game before I set out to do so much work.

 

so I did this next

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/SteelShade/Space%20Wolves/IMG_4422.jpg

Left to right is an Iron Priest, Wolf Lord, regular Thunder Wolf

 

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/SteelShade/Space%20Wolves/IMG_4425.jpg

I used Chaos Knights to make these, the heads are khorne berserker heads with the horns shaved off.

And thus you have marine cavalry but not riding wolves

[Marek Grimfang]

Please, someone model a WG carrying a Fenrisian Wolf piggy-backed!!!!

[Marmande]

Please, someone model a WG carrying a Fenrisian Wolf piggy-backed!!!!

 

Haha, well, at least nobody could claim they confused something like that with a unit of Ferensian wolves. Also Thontos, those cav. rule.

[gravmania]

I've used the Warhammer Fantasy Lizardman Cold One. They are broader and beefier than the dark elven ones and look better with Marines on their backs.

 

I've painted them nicely and all pretty with lots of layers on the scales and such. I've never gotten anything but compliments about them. (no pics yet sorry)

[Marmande]

Did you paint them as Space Wolves or did you do them up as a DIY chapter? :P