Testing the waters...

[Dammeron]

Hey there my brethren in damnation,

 

Having recently hauled my homegrown Chaos Codex out from the archives, it has become PAINFULLY obvious that it needs overhauling and refining. I have been trying out various means of creating a system whereby as many army styles are catered for as possible whilst retaining a realstic degree of functionality.

 

To this end, I have developed a system whereby the various Chaos Space marine "cult" entries are done away with and there is no need for tertiary army lists or the application of abstruse special rules or army list restrictions in order to create forces of Renegades, Traitor Legions etc. Though I've yet to flesh out the details, it basically works as follows:

 

- All units in the Chaos Space Marine army list are Fearless as standard, unless otherwise stated in their specific army list entry.

- All units in the Chaos Space Marine army list may purchase a specific Mark of Chaos (each of which has revised special rules but which basically function as stat-augmentations, e.g. +1 WS and attack for The Mark of Khorne, +1 Toughness and a -1 A modifier to enemies engaged in assault for The Mark of Nurgle.

- ANY unit in the Chaos Space Marine army list may purchase a SINGLE gift from a standard Gifts of the Gods list for a certain points cost per model. All models in a unit must have the same gift apart from IC's joining the unit. These "gifts" are mutations and abilities some of which are modelled after the abilities and weaponry of the existing Chaos Cults (e.g. to make Khorne Berserkers, you merely apply the Blood Rage gift to a unit with The Mark of Khorne, which gives them Furious Assault), others after the standard characteristics of the existing Traitor Legions (for example, the Unholy Horror gift allows a unit to impose a -1Ld penalty on any unit it successfully charges in assault, which is redolent of the Night Lords terror markings). Others are less standardised, allowing for the creation of entirely new Chaos Space Marine cults, Renegade units etc etc. The same system is applied to Daemon units, allowing for the creation of your own daemons.

 

The system is very simple, easy to apply and represent in model form, plus blows the potential of the existing army list wide open. Advice, criticisms etc would be greatly appreciated.

[chaplain belisarius]

Sounds interesting mate-just keep it simple but also deep!:tu:

 

I myself have no idea on how to sort out chaos...i miss the old pete haines dex...:)

[Wolfbiter]

Hey there my brethren in damnation,

 

Having recently hauled my homegrown Chaos Codex out from the archives, it has become PAINFULLY obvious that it needs overhauling and refining. I have been trying out various means of creating a system whereby as many army styles are catered for as possible whilst retaining a realstic degree of functionality.

 

To this end, I have developed a system whereby the various Chaos Space marine "cult" entries are done away with and there is no need for tertiary army lists or the application of abstruse special rules or army list restrictions in order to create forces of Renegades, Traitor Legions etc. Though I've yet to flesh out the details, it basically works as follows:

 

- All units in the Chaos Space Marine army list are Fearless as standard, unless otherwise stated in their specific army list entry.

- All units in the Chaos Space Marine army list may purchase a specific Mark of Chaos (each of which has revised special rules but which basically function as stat-augmentations, e.g. +1 WS and attack for The Mark of Khorne, +1 Toughness and a -1 A modifier to enemies engaged in assault for The Mark of Nurgle.

- ANY unit in the Chaos Space Marine army list may purchase a SINGLE gift from a standard Gifts of the Gods list for a certain points cost per model. All models in a unit must have the same gift apart from IC's joining the unit. These "gifts" are mutations and abilities some of which are modelled after the abilities and weaponry of the existing Chaos Cults (e.g. to make Khorne Berserkers, you merely apply the Blood Rage gift to a unit with The Mark of Khorne, which gives them Furious Assault), others after the standard characteristics of the existing Traitor Legions (for example, the Unholy Horror gift allows a unit to impose a -1Ld penalty on any unit it successfully charges in assault, which is redolent of the Night Lords terror markings). Others are less standardised, allowing for the creation of entirely new Chaos Space Marine cults, Renegade units etc etc. The same system is applied to Daemon units, allowing for the creation of your own daemons.

 

The system is very simple, easy to apply and represent in model form, plus blows the potential of the existing army list wide open. Advice, criticisms etc would be greatly appreciated.

 

Intriguing, Dammeron! I think I like this basic foundation a lot.

 

Let me see if I have the concept down. I'd like to pose some hypotheticals to see if I understand how the idea works clearly, and also to ask a few questions:

 

A) Let's say I want to build a unit starting with basic Chaos Space Marines in a renegade (Not World-Eaters!) warband, who have started to worship Khorne. I can give them the Mark of Khorne, which gives them +1 WS and +1 Attack, but they would retain the normal CSM equipment and options (bolter, ccw, bp, special/heavy weapons, etc.)

 

:cuss Now, let's say I want to take the next step up in Khorninating these guys, and I build this same unit as full Khorne Berzerkers of the World Eaters Legion. I would still give the the Mark of Khorne as in A); but now I would also add in the "Blood Rage" gift, which gives them Furious Charge. OK so far? For thematic purposes, would Blood Rage require the squad losing its boltguns (keeping BP and CCW) in order to take the "advanced" upgrade?

 

C) Question: Would some of the Gifts of the Gods require a certain Mark as a pre-requisite, while others are available regardless of Mark?

 

D) Question: I think you mentioned this, but if you take one Gift, that's it...no other Gift for the squad, correct? (I strongly support one Gift only, to avoid twinking and excessive attempts to min-max units.)

 

I think this is a neat idea because it gives the players the ability to tailor their armies to discrete stages of Chaos "corruption" (sounding quite a bit like the system described in the upcoming "Chaos Rising" computer game) that they prefer, while making different options appealing. I also really like giving players the option of choosing different abilities for different squads to theme as a "warband" or being able to focus on particular Marks or Gifts to have an army reflect a "Legion."

 

I think it's a good starting concept.

[Dammeron]

Hey there my brethren in damnation,

 

Having recently hauled my homegrown Chaos Codex out from the archives, it has become PAINFULLY obvious that it needs overhauling and refining. I have been trying out various means of creating a system whereby as many army styles are catered for as possible whilst retaining a realstic degree of functionality.

 

To this end, I have developed a system whereby the various Chaos Space marine "cult" entries are done away with and there is no need for tertiary army lists or the application of abstruse special rules or army list restrictions in order to create forces of Renegades, Traitor Legions etc. Though I've yet to flesh out the details, it basically works as follows:

 

- All units in the Chaos Space Marine army list are Fearless as standard, unless otherwise stated in their specific army list entry.

- All units in the Chaos Space Marine army list may purchase a specific Mark of Chaos (each of which has revised special rules but which basically function as stat-augmentations, e.g. +1 WS and attack for The Mark of Khorne, +1 Toughness and a -1 A modifier to enemies engaged in assault for The Mark of Nurgle.

- ANY unit in the Chaos Space Marine army list may purchase a SINGLE gift from a standard Gifts of the Gods list for a certain points cost per model. All models in a unit must have the same gift apart from IC's joining the unit. These "gifts" are mutations and abilities some of which are modelled after the abilities and weaponry of the existing Chaos Cults (e.g. to make Khorne Berserkers, you merely apply the Blood Rage gift to a unit with The Mark of Khorne, which gives them Furious Assault), others after the standard characteristics of the existing Traitor Legions (for example, the Unholy Horror gift allows a unit to impose a -1Ld penalty on any unit it successfully charges in assault, which is redolent of the Night Lords terror markings). Others are less standardised, allowing for the creation of entirely new Chaos Space Marine cults, Renegade units etc etc. The same system is applied to Daemon units, allowing for the creation of your own daemons.

 

The system is very simple, easy to apply and represent in model form, plus blows the potential of the existing army list wide open. Advice, criticisms etc would be greatly appreciated.

 

Intriguing, Dammeron! I think I like this basic foundation a lot.

 

Let me see if I have the concept down. I'd like to pose some hypotheticals to see if I understand how the idea works clearly, and also to ask a few questions:

 

A) Let's say I want to build a unit starting with basic Chaos Space Marines in a renegade (Not World-Eaters!) warband, who have started to worship Khorne. I can give them the Mark of Khorne, which gives them +1 WS and +1 Attack, but they would retain the normal CSM equipment and options (bolter, ccw, bp, special/heavy weapons, etc.)

 

:D Now, let's say I want to take the next step up in Khorninating these guys, and I build this same unit as full Khorne Berzerkers of the World Eaters Legion. I would still give the the Mark of Khorne as in A); but now I would also add in the "Blood Rage" gift, which gives them Furious Charge. OK so far? For thematic purposes, would Blood Rage require the squad losing its boltguns (keeping BP and CCW) in order to take the "advanced" upgrade?

 

C) Question: Would some of the Gifts of the Gods require a certain Mark as a pre-requisite, while others are available regardless of Mark?

 

D) Question: I think you mentioned this, but if you take one Gift, that's it...no other Gift for the squad, correct? (I strongly support one Gift only, to avoid twinking and excessive attempts to min-max units.)

 

I think this is a neat idea because it gives the players the ability to tailor their armies to discrete stages of Chaos "corruption" (sounding quite a bit like the system described in the upcoming "Chaos Rising" computer game) that they prefer, while making different options appealing. I also really like giving players the option of choosing different abilities for different squads to theme as a "warband" or being able to focus on particular Marks or Gifts to have an army reflect a "Legion."

 

I think it's a good starting concept.

 

 

Hey there Wolfbiter,

 

Questions A and B: Yes, there would be certain cult specific upgrades that would be balanced out by affecting the recipient's war gear options, however, there would also be other less standard gifts that would still be redolent of a particular Chaos God's aspects that would not. The idea is to represent that there are varying "cults" in service to the Chaos Gods that represent different aspects thereof. For example, it is not out o the question that there are Chaos Cults dedicated to Khorne that, rather than emphasising close combat, revere him in his aspect as "The Hunter," "The Great Hound," or the Lord of War itself. As a result, the army list would allow for specific and distinct followers of Khorne who sport special and heavy weapons, or servants of Tzeentch that are not restricted exclusively to bolters. The idea is to allow true freedom of choice and for players to theme their armies according to their own inclinations, as the current codex purports but fails to.

 

Question C: I'm not sure on this one yet. I was toying with the idea of making lists of gifts that are redolent of particular Chaos Gods (e.g. "Gifts of Rage," "Gifts of Hope," "Gifts of Despair") but which are not restricted to followers with a particular Mark. This would mean that Khornate purists would have the option of choosing exclusively from the "Gifts of Rage" list whereas others would be free to experiment. However, this may change should the options prove too readily abuseable.

 

Question D: Most certainly: units would be restricted to a SINGLE gift, with Aspiring Champions and Independent Characters having the option of taking one or two more as war gear.

 

Many thanks for the questions and input thus far!

[chaplain belisarius]

sounds interesting-so basically i get "basic" chaos marines (renegades, undivided etc) and if i want to make them worship any of the gods i pay x amount of points. After this i decide i like nurgle a lot so my army are now all going to be plaguemarines. I pay another x amount of points to do this and voila! an army of plaguemarines.

 

Have i got the hang of the idea? I reckon so far, its pretty straightforward and i look forward to seeing more of this idea!

[Dammeron]

sounds interesting-so basically i get "basic" chaos marines (renegades, undivided etc) and if i want to make them worship any of the gods i pay x amount of points. After this i decide i like nurgle a lot so my army are now all going to be plaguemarines. I pay another x amount of points to do this and voila! an army of plaguemarines.

 

Have i got the hang of the idea? I reckon so far, its pretty straightforward and i look forward to seeing more of this idea!

 

 

That's it exactly. Furthermore, there will be a number of gifts that allow you to create "cult" troops that are specific to a particular God but different from the traditional cults, for example, I am working on a gift for followers of Tzeentch that makes their bodies psontaneously combust with flame (a la "Hakanor's Reavers"). I don''t know whether there should be restrictions in place limiting gifts to models with a particular mark, or if there should simply be looser categories for each list that suggest their ethos. More soon.