Kill Team: A Tactical Discussion

[Brother Xeones]

After taking a look at the new Battle Missions book at my LGS, I've been very excited about the new rules for Kill Team. It sounds like a fun and quick way to play a game of 40K and might work well for newer players who only have a few models. Additionally, I'm looking forward to having an excuse to go crazy on conversions!

 

The reason I've started this thread is to talk about the concepts and tactics that kill team opens up to players. Although my observations are from a marine perspective, I hope that these thoughts (and any ensuing dialogue) will be helpful to anyone playing the game. So let's get started. . .

 

Rules Questions

Now, undoubtably, there will be rules issues that arise when trying to reconcile a rule meant for 40K with a KT setting. For instance, does Telion get to use his "Voice of Experience" ability since he is technically not in a unit with any other scouts? Or what about models embarking in a transport? 40K rules state that a transport can only carry one unit regardless of its maximum capacity. Does this mean you can only put one model in a transport? I would say that, as with any time there are rules questions, you should work things out with your opponent. The rules for KT are far too loose to play super competitively anyway so don't be a jerk and just do what makes sense in your situation. Don't expect GW to field an FAQ that resolves every rules conflict between the BRB and the KT ruleset. It's not gonna happen.

 

In the above examples, I'd say that Telion should be able to use his ability if he's within, say, 6" of the other scout model, and transports should be able to carry as many models as they have capacity to carry allowing those models to come and go as you see fit. See? That wasn't hard.

 

General Trends and Observations

 

Every Man for Himself!: The biggest rule difference between KT and normal 40K is that each individual model in KT behaves as a separate unit on the field. This opens up all sorts of possibilities for different tactics and tricks that weren't possible in normal 40K. Additionally, the low points cost and victory conditions means that every model is important. As a general rule, there will be no cannon fodder units since every model lost means you are that much closer to being under 50% of your total strength.

FOC: KT gives you a truncated version of the Force Organization chart. Note that you MUST still take at least one unit of troops to have a legal force. That means no all-Sternguard Kill Teams or things of that nature. For marines, scouts actually become a much more interesting option because of their cheapness and flexibility. Also, underused units like tech marines might see a little more action since they are fairly inexpensive ways to get some hard-hitting and cheap power into a bland list.

Mobility: Mobility will be huge. Unfortunately, the means to stay mobile becomes much more difficult at this low points value. Transports such as rhinos, razorbacks, and Landspeeder Storms are going to be hugely effective and it will hurt a lot when they are taken out (don't forget they count toward your total model count too). Also, models with bikes or jet/jump packs will be big force multipliers since they'll be able to overwhelm single models and quickly intercept stragglers. Just be careful they don't end up taking too many dangerous terrain tests or you'll be doing your opponent a huge favor by voluntarily removing a valuable model from the table.

Swords are this season's fists: I know a lot of you guys love your powerfists, but for KT, you'd be better off leaving those models in their case. Without the extra squad members to hit before you and take hits in return, striking last suddenly becomes a huge liability. Most assaults are going to be short, decisive one-on-one events and a simple powersword sergeant (even better with Furious Charge) will almost certainly win out over the more expensive powerfist model. Spending an eighth of your total points on a single, marginally effective weapon is a bad idea. Unless you've somehow got a good invulnerable save and don't mind gambling with an expensive model, don't even bother.

Templates are out: This is one that a lot of people have commented on, but it's worth mentioning again: Template weapons have lost a lot of appeal in KT due to the removal of unit coherency constraints as well as the relatively few numbers of models on the field. Flamers might be taken occasionally since they don't suffer from scatter and they will cut through the cover saves that you would expect in the terrain heavy KT environments. However, for the most part, powerful single-shot weapons (like krak missiles) and multi-shot weapons (like heavy bolters) are going to generally be the weapons of choice.

Don't spread out too much! People's first reaction when playing KT will probably be to take advantage of their new single-model units by spreading them out. That's fine, but be sure not to spread yourself too thin or you will be unable to have your models support one another. KT will be all about multi-model synergy. It's got the word "team" in the name for crying out loud! Be sure to use the few models you have to double up and "bully" your opponent's stragglers or key models to gain the edge.

Uber Units: Certain units such as stock dreadnoughts and single thunderwolves are going to become very powerful at this point range. While realistically, these lists are probably going to win big/lose big, be prepared to endure cries of "cheese" and "power gamer!" if you choose to use them. Words like "cheese" mean different things to different people, but just be courteous to your opponents in your choice of models.

 

USRs: In KT, up to three models may choose one USR for free! Below, I've written out my thoughts on the available USRs.

 

Useful: This are what I consider the top tier USRs for kill team.

• Furious Charge: Probably the number one ability most assault models will go for. In KT, swinging first is paramount for surviving combat since your heavy hitters can't hide behind cheaper models to avoid getting hit. Combined with a powersword, you've got a great model for eliminating other high priority enemy models.

• Relentless: This ability will probably be the second most common ability seen in KT. Expect this ability to be given to a heavy weapon model. With this USR, not only can a model move and fire on it's own, but you can turn a rhino or other light transport into a nice little tank by allowing your model to fire from a fire point when going at combat speed.

• Stealth: With the amount of cover saves that will be available in KT and the lack of cover ignoring template weapons, this USR will be very handy for many models --especially ones that don't have access to a 3+ armor save.

• Infiltrate: Should allow you to place valuable models exactly were you need them before the match starts. This could be particularly nice for fast-moving assault models or long-range weapons allowing you to ensure you get them into the best possible vantage points.

• Preferred Enemy: PE is probably the second best option for an assault model after Furious Charge. More hits in CC means more of a chance to take out the other model. 'nuff said.

 

Situational: These might be nice in certain situations or for certain models, but I predict you generally won't see these.

• Fleet: This one won't be as used that much unless some wise guy decides to give fleet to his dreadnought. Another possible use is to use a model with Fleet to deny the charge to a model with Furious Charge. I assume most models with FC will also have a power weapon so you'll probably want to take a good invulnerable save for this if you have access to one.

• Counter Attack: This could be useful occasionally, but against Furious Charge, your model will probably be dead before Counter Attack kicks in.

• Eternal Warrior: Most KT models will be single wound and very few weapons will be able to ID a model anyway so this isn't a great option for T4 models unless you are bringing a multi-wound model that is likely to get a lot of high S fire.

• Feel No Pain: Not as useful as you might initially think. Since your FnP model can be singled out, expect it to eat a krak missile, or a power weapon attack that will neatly ignore your ability. Only useful if your opponent can't easily counter it. (yeah right)

• Hit and Run: Again, not often useful. Many combats will not last more than one round anyway.

• Acute Senses: Might be nice for your heavy weapon model if you play night fight, otherwise, leave it behind.

• Scouts: Could be good for certain mobile units like bikes so as to re-deploy before the game starts. Otherwise I doubt you'll see this.

• Move through Cover: You probably won't see this as much as the others --not because it's a bad ability, but because it becomes overshadowed by other options much of the time. However, with the amount of terrain that will be prevalent on a KT table, it might be worth a look.

• Skilled Rider: The amount of terrain present in KT might cause some players to take this, but you won't see it very often.

• Slow and Purposeful: A poor man's version of relentless. Expect this to be used only after Relentless is given to another model.

• Tank Hunters: Not likely to often be useful since vehicles will be pretty scarce and the ones that do show up will likely be of the thinner skinned variety. However, if you need to take out a dreadnought or a transport at range, this might come in handy occasionally.

 

Worthless: I won't be giving explanations for these. Leadership abilities will rarely come into play since single-model units don't have to test for leadership after shooting attacks and such.

Fearless

Rage

Stubborn

Swarms

Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates

 

That's all I have at the moment. Feel free to add your own thoughts on the new Kill Team rules or correct any mistakes I may have made since I'm just going my memory of the rules from my in-store read through.

[Demoulius]

a fine post brother, i would like to add a few points myself.

 

imho scouts are perfect for this, for a couple of reasons.

1: price. compared to the power armoured brothers they do got a few drawbacks but the biggest advantage that they bring is that of a low points cost. youll be outnumbered 99% of the time anyway, might be worthwhile to up your nubmers abit with scouts :)

2: scout snipers, now a much better investment as you can actually snipe "character models" (or more likely sargeants) hitting on 4's and wounding 4's isent the perfect combo but if you get a lucky rending hit that character is very very dead ;)

3: move though cover means they are fast, and if you invest alittle in them and give them camo cloaks all of them will have stealth already, so no need to use that USSR...if you wanted to in the first place anyway.

4: number of attacks. scouts with close combat weapons are the cheapest close combat troops in the codex, and while their save is lower they will have higher chances of killing an opponent in close combat compared to a normal marines (extra attacks can go a looooong way)

5: land speeder storms. maybe im putting to much faith in them but vehicles at these point cost are a pain, no matter how strong or weak they are. you can bet that whatever anti-tank your opponent will have will be pointed against it. so if you want to make sure that you have a thorn in his side, kill those first, and then laugh off small arms fire while youve got a nighj indestructible speeder flying around :)

 

needless to say im going to try out a scout army myself. (granted i AM a blood angel players so mine are still BS/WS 4) but imho they defenitly got a spot in kill team ^_^

 

you make some very good points Brother Xeones and i think i finally found a list where i can mash my techmarine into :P

[Brother Xeones]

I totally agree with you about scouts. Even the WS/BS3 ones are going to be a great option for kill team. In fact I'm thinking about running 8 scouts and a 'storm as a solid KT list.

[mega_marines]

I have a strange question, and one not even our store manager/black shirt could figure out.

 

Do you have to purchase squads and not individual models? I mean, I can't buy 3 Space Marines and 2 Scouts now can I? I have to buy FOC legal units?

[Demoulius]

well id say yes for this scenario...but as i dont have battle missions in front of me i cant confirm this ^_^ i suggest you ask the guys/gals at your local gaming group on what their vieuws are on this

[LardO'Blood]

Can't wait to read the full rules for this, sounds interesting. Bounding overwatch anyone?

[Azatoth]

Named characters in Kill Team... :yuck:

[Brother Xeones]

mega_marines: From what I recall from the rules, you have to "purchase" at least a minimum squad or unit for it to be legal rather than individual models. This makes sense since you wouldn't want someone to create a list made entirely of sergeants for instance.

 

However, that being said, as I mentioned earlier, Kill Team seems to be designed more for fun than for competition and strict adherence to the rules so I think that you might be able to convince a friend to bend the rules for a couple of games if you'd like to modify the core rules a bit.

 

Quick Edit: most named characters are too expensive or are an HQ unit so I doubt you'll see too many of these. However, if you want to do an Ultra Marines kill Team lead by Telion, or similar, I'd certainly not turn my nose up at that.

[Xeonic]

Giving Telion relentless sounds AWESOME(in caps no less!)!!?!!11

 

*makes evil schemes*

 

I am looking forwards to this, a lot, should revitalize 40k a bit for me. :yuck:

[waaanial00]

Giving Telion relentless sounds AWESOME(in caps no less!)!!?!!11

 

*makes evil schemes*

 

I am looking forwards to this, a lot, should revitalize 40k a bit for me. ^_^

 

This opens up a question of should/can you add additional rules to a named character (such as Telion). I appreciate that the way this is worded (havent got a chance to read this book until it is released) seems to suggest you can however there might/should be additional rules to stop this.

 

Whats the suggested points range?

 

Wan

[Adam500]

I just have to say; this sounds awesome, and its definitely making me want to build up my scout company.

[Demoulius]

pts range is 400 pts IIRC. you can give 3 models 1 USSR but only give a USSR to a character once. can only place 1 extra USSR on a model. te4chmarine with FnP sounds like a godlike character though :) 2+ save and FnP would be hard to counter here....and the power and powerfist attacks would be quite sure to kill whatever he charges or gets charged by :lol:

[Hfran Morkai]

Dude...I can have the Wolfblades considering they're cheaper now.

 

And 200 points was the limit I wanted, seems my cries have been heard!

 

Must get this book when it comes out.

 

As an aside is there an option for Heavy Support? Because I'd want to take a Long Fang to represent Torin with heavy bolter haha.

[DevianID]

Are you sure you have to take at least 1 troop squad? I thought troops were 0-2, meaning you dont have to take them?

 

As for the independant models rule, my quick and easy solution is to allow units from the same squad to 'squad up' if desired. Make it so all units can join and leave their own squad members as independant characters, but still fight as individual models in close combat. Basicly, the only thing from independant character they wouldnt get is the move through cover/skilled rider special rule.

 

This means that a tac squad sarge couldnt join up with a scout, but the tac sarge with a fist could partner with 4 bolter marines to provide some shooting resistance.

 

Other than my houserule of demi-indepenant characters within their own squad, and assuming you dont have to take a troop unit, the only other house rule I would add is a 3 different model minimum.

 

Thus spaming is less of an issue, as you can not take 3 identical landspeeders or 5 termies as your force (assault termies only come in 2 flavors, and reg termies dont have the points to get a special weapon to make a 3rd unique unit, so they both fail the 3 different model check), and you also cant take uber units like a 200 point venerable dread as your only model (with 0 troop requirements, ven dreads will own almost every standard non-houserule kill team game as it stands, by simply sniping at 48inches the 1-2 models that can hurt the thing).

 

The 3 different model rule also gives you the 3 models you would need for the 3 USR, meaning everyone can use the 3 USR. Since the 3 USRs are an optional rule anyway, requiring 3 different model types in your kill team force means the USR are a bit more balanced.

 

I am excited for the kill team rules. I had been working on my own kill team variant with destructable terrain rules and lots of senario styled missions, also set at 200 points, with similiar force selection rules. The kill team rules means my variant, by adopting the kill team changes for FOC, and my variants 3 different model rule and indepentant character for squads rule, will gain a semi-official backing, since the base rules will now be GW rules!

[Brother Xeones]

Are you sure you have to take at least 1 troop squad? I thought troops were 0-2, meaning you dont have to take them?

I fairly certain that I recall the restrictions as being 1-2 Troops instead of 0-2. The other FOC choices are 0-1, but you still need at least one minimum troops squad.

As for the independant models rule, my quick and easy solution is to allow units from the same squad to 'squad up' if desired. Make it so all units can join and leave their own squad members as independant characters, but still fight as individual models in close combat. Basicly, the only thing from independant character they wouldnt get is the move through cover/skilled rider special rule.

Why would you want to do this? To me, adding squads back in to Kill Team removes a very interesting mechanic from the game. I don't think your 3 different models rule is really necessary if I'm correct about the mandatory troops squad. Being forced to spend almost half you points on basic troops (at best) means that you simply can't afford to bring additional powerful units like Terminators or Venerable Dreadnoughts. Even if you take a bare-bones scout squad as your mandatory troops choice, You've still only got 125 points left and that's just barely enough to get one stock squad of Sternguard or something. Assuming you still have to purchase squads like normal and not individual models, you can see how the system mostly balances itself out by making most uber units unattainable at this points bracket.

 

That's why I think it was completely intentional when Jervis designed it like that. Ignoring the mandatory troops selection, or allowing single models to be purchased instead of squads would seemingly cause balance issues. Kill team seems to be a good platform to come up with some fun house rules so I won't rain on your parade and tell you that you can't play like that, but I think that you will open up a lot of unintended problems from your suggested modifications.

 

Anyway, I've been thinking about some KT lists that sound like fun so here are a couple that I've come up with.

 

All-scout List:

1 Sergeant w/ power sword, cloak + USR: Furious Charge

3 Shotgun scouts w/cloaks

1 Missile Launcher w/cloak + USR: Relentless

2 Sniper scouts w/cloaks

1 Sniper scout w/cloak + USR: Slow and Purposeful

 

1 Land Speeder Storm

 

Total 200 points

 

General Idea: The sergeant, shotgun scouts, and missile launcher ride in the storm, while the three sniper scouts infiltrate into good positions. Sergeant and shotguns are the assault elements with the storm giving the Sergant a 20" charge range ensuring that against most things, he can get the charge first and benefit from his furious charge usr.

 

Dreadnought List:

Scout Marine Kill Team

1 Dreadnought MM/SB + USR: Fleet

 

1 Sergeant w/ power sword & Melta Bombs + USR: Furious Charge

3 Bolter scouts

1 Sniper scout + USR: Relentless or Stealth

Total 200 points

 

This is the sort of list I mentioned in my first post when I referred to fleeting dreadnoughts. You've got a minimum number of models on the field, so you've got to be careful, but a fleeting dreadnought is still a nasty model in such a small game. I'm not sure I'd really use this list, but you get the idea. . .

[spartan249]

At this points level, I think the humble Tactical Squad makes the most versatile and effective unit available. With cheap special and heavy weapon options, access to the power sword, and a relatively large number of bolter marines to use, it's well rounded and useful when countering any threat. Played a few games with the Kill Team rules, and I've begun using the following list very often:

 

200 pts "KT variant 2"

Troops

Tactical Squad: 10 marines, Mgun, Lascannon, Power Sword - 200 pts

Sergeant: Furious Charge

Lascannon Marine: Relentless

Meltagun Marine: Infiltrate

[GreatEscape_13]

What we like is already people are painting up forces just for kill team.

 

Though more than one group is going for lots of Ork gretchin... which should be a disgustingly large number of models in 200 points.

 

And troops are 0-2. So for marine players, they could bring a unit of 5 TH/SS termies and call it a day. Tho look how the grot mob would eat a small force of 5 models alive.

 

I'm leaning toward the following myself:

 

5 tactical marines. 1 is sergeant with power fist and combi-flamer.

5 scouts with a mix of weapons.

 

200 points.

 

Should give options and fun. Though I did strongly think about a variant of what someone else posted before that snuck a landspeeder storm into the game. And before anyone else says it, yes a single dreadnought could be the elite choice, and just be gross.

 

Cheers.

[DevianID]

Ya, if the 0-2 troops is confirmed, then I stand by my requirement for 3 different models at minimum for kill team composition, which enforces the 'TEAM' in Kill Team. Also, I still like the rule of being able to form demisquads--and demisquads will recieve cover better, which seems to be one of the points of Kill Team, plus demisquads can use transports, which as currently stands only 1 model may ever ride in a transport.

 

Seems to me if you were gonna add a rule to let multiple models ride in a transport, you might as well have that rule be demisquads.

 

Also, to me, sniping special models with long range weapons is simply no fun in my opinion without the ability to form demisquads for some modicum of protection.

[Hfran Morkai]

What we like is already people are painting up forces just for kill team.

 

Making mine right now haha

 

Though I need a terminator torso and a set of Assault Marine legs to GW's gamer night!

[Brother Mojonir]

CSM can build a couple of strong KT lists, a basic CSM 10 man squad comes extremely well equipped, with some solid upgrade options. Every marine has Bolter, BP and CCW plus grenades. They also have TDA squads with a minimum size of 3, all equipped with PWs. CSM looks to come up strong in KT, and gives a good base for any pre-heresy themed KTs.

[Chucku]

For those of you with Land Speeder Storms and Dreadnoughts, my understanding is that no Vehicles are allowed other than dedicated transports.

[mega_marines]

For those of you with Land Speeder Storms and Dreadnoughts, my understanding is that no Vehicles are allowed other than dedicated transports.

 

Not true, Ive played Kill Team multiple times at my local GW, and have read the rules for it, inside and out.

 

I've already seen Meganobz and Trukks, and all sorts of crazy stuff!

[Kolath]

My friend and I played two KT games last night, my ultras versus his IG. In both cases I lost, but for different reasons. Here are my observations plus some suggested house rules.

 

Game 1

Me: 6x tactical marines, ML (relentless), Melta (FNP), Powersword (Furious charge), 1x Land speeder

IG: 10x vets with 3x plasma (one relentless, one FNP, one infiltrate), 2x scout sentinels with autocannons

 

We agreed that I could buy a special and a heavy weapon for the tac squad at <10 men and flamers and ML would cost 5 pts. The terrain was a set of ruined buildings interspersed with sections of jungle area terrain (perfect for catachans to hide, I might add). The game went about 10 turns, which was dominated by the sentinels. Though it took them 6 turns of concentrated fire to take out my ML, the ML failed to destroy either sentinel. My marines fared a bit better, but the 4+ save from all the area terrain made it very tough.

 

Lessons learned: Don't allow yourself to settle into a static firefight. I got scared of the autocannons and plasmas so I wasted time in cover when I should have been advancing to fight in hand to hand.

 

Game 2

Me: 7x sternguard, 2 ML (one tank hunter, one relentless), 2x combi-plasma, sergeant with combi-flamer (FNP)

IG: 10x vets with 3x melta in a valkyrie

 

Generals are always fighting the last war. Because of the headache the sentinels caused, I opted for two MLs. And I chose sternguard to negate the cover save that had been so annoying the last game. Unfortunately, when he showed up with the valk, I knew I was in for trouble. The table was a bit more open, with ruined buildings and craters. He went first, so my plan was to position my men so that when I shot down the valk they would either rapid fire the IG to kingdom come or they would pistol and charge into close combat. The valkyrie charged my position and stopped right over my MLs. Fortunately the Str 8 blast went wildly off target. But then my ML, and 2 combi-plasma failed to bring it down. All I did was destroy the other missile and lose a guy to gets hot! The vets proceeded to jump out and kill 3 guys with their meltaguns and the valk killed one more with its multi-laser. I was now down to 3 models, so I opted to take my luck with close combat. The close combat went fairly well, I killed two vets and because they were close together I engaged several at once. But the rest of the vets piled in and took me out.

 

Lessons learned: Bring more models! Stay in cover to avoid AP weapons. Reconsider ways to take take out vehicles. I had considered taking a las/plas razorback with 6 sternguard but I was afraid of putting all my anti-tank eggs in one basket. If only I had 5 more points to take a ML too!

 

Thoughts on kill team

In general I liked it a lot! It was fun and quirky, if frustrating at times. I think if I had the models I would do Brother Xeones' scout + LS storm combo. The dearth of AT makes vehicles a very dangerous option. But I think it is good because the possibility of vehicles prevents people from taking an all grot or all gaunt horde (which would be mighty scary!). For the marine player, I think flamers and combi-flamers will be a very helpful option for ignoring that pesky cover, along with assaults.

 

Now, based on situations in the two games we played, I have two suggested house rules to add to KT:

 

#1 - Ignore unit size restrictions for weapons on tacticals. Must take at least a 5 man squad, but may take special and heavy. This is more for the sake of having interesting combinations to work with than anything else

 

#2 - Allow units to assault any unit with 6" of the unit they fired at in the shooting phase. One quirk of the every man for himself RAW, is that if there were two guardsmen standing next to eachother and my sergeant shoots and kills one with a pistol from 5" away, he would not be able to assault the remaining guardsman because he is technically a different unit. This seemed pretty unrealistic, so we agreed that we should lift the "you must assault what you shot" rule in such situations.

[Tutteman]

I'm liking the look of this, to the point of thinking about buying the Battle Missions pack JUST for this :P £15 ^_^

 

And I may just start making a list right now ;)

[Mysticaria]

Anyone have any thoughts of how to defeat stuff like: Nobs in trucks, or 8 gaunts & Tervigon?

 

It seems like this format would be fun to play, with a tactical squad and some weapon upgrades, but I'm not sure there is really a way to beat some of the stuff other lists can put out there.

 

Does this deserve a new thread for specific army vs army tactics, or can we discuss here?

 

-Myst