Most effective way of dealing with armor

[White Hunter]

So with the great debate of Lascannon vs Melta and the Longfangs vs speeders I was wondering what everyone thought of as the most point effective anti tank (AV-13-14) units are. Specifically from among these

 

Lascannon long Fangs: (I could upgrade some of both current long fangs to 2x lascannon and 3x Missile Launchers)

 

Drop pod Dreadnought: Could potentially afford 2 of these coming in turn 1

 

Multimelta Speeder squadron: 2 squadrons of 2x speeders provides highly mobile melta platforms.

 

What is the best option as you guys view it?

[wolf363839]

I'm a big fan of all of those options, because they each have their own advantage and role. I prefer to use a mix of transport-popping firepower. In a 2000pt force I run:

 

1 Landpeeder Typhoon - 2 missile shots at a transport and could provide a late-game objective contestor

 

1 Long Fang Pack with 5 missile launchers - keeps costs down and can kill a variety of targets

 

1 Vindicator - versatile anti armor and anti infantry

 

1 Land Raider - 2 twinlinked lascannons at obvious targets and delivers Ragnar's GH's into battle

 

1 Dreadnought w/ twinlinked lascannon - hits transports and armor on the way in, and then available for close combat

 

1 Razorback w/ twinlinked lascannon - should be ignored in favor of other parts of my army, and protects a GH Pack on an objective

 

I still have enough points for 2 full GH Packs, 1 GH Pack with Ragnar and Rune Priest, and 1 5-man GH Pack for nearby objectives. I could alternatively use a drop podding Dread with multi-melta, but I'll have to play test it to decide.

[HERO]

And.. of course Meltaguns for your Grey Hunter squads.

[bareserker]

I feel like I say this now with boring regularity, my best anti tank guy was my Ven Dread with Twin Linked Lass Cannons & Missile Launchers. I dont know if hes got worse in the new dex but in 3 years of playing my Ven Dread was NEVER DESTROYED ! He lost weapons , got Immobilised but I never lost him.He hits on 2's, gets extra save,re~rolls start. Hes one mean Mother !

[White Hunter]

And.. of course Meltaguns for your Grey Hunter squads.

 

QFT, I was just looking for something to get at the armor a little bit faster either turn 1 or turn 2.

 

My biggest concern is the ability to pop high AV tanks (i.e. battlewagons, land raiders, vindicators, IG tanks). I am hesitant to use "spam" lascannons as they require a 5 to glance and a 6 to pen. (adding logan improves the odds, but still) Meanwhile the Melta weapons have such a short range that it takes time to close with the bad guys to use them, unless it can be delivered by a fast platform (i.e. drop pod units or speeders).

[Kenmichi]

Scouts with a Meltagun is one of my favorite anti-armor units. You can sneak them in wherever on a 3+, really effective against Guard who like to sit and shoot. You could also attach a WG and WGBL with Saga of the Hunter and combi-weapons if you're afraid 1 meltagun won't be enough.

[Yeti]

I'll start off by saying that I don't like drop pod dreads, especially not if it's the only thing podding. Basically it's a one shot wonder that gives up 2 KPs and muffs 1/2 the time (between misses and not rolling for amor pen).

 

Melta speeders are an option, but have to be used inteligently because they're fragile. To make them more reliable, get them with 2x multimeltas and run them as independent units to avoid getting multi-stunned by bolters.

 

I'm personally a fan of Annihilator preds, though I'll admit that they have a tough time against AV14. Rhino/razor mounted melta hunters (w/ combimelta WG) really are one of the better options for SWs. The mobility offsets the lack of range and the transport provides some protection.

[Valerian]

Scouts with a Meltagun is one of my favorite anti-armor units. You can sneak them in wherever on a 3+, really effective against Guard who like to sit and shoot. You could also attach a WG and WGBL with Saga of the Hunter and combi-weapons if you're afraid 1 meltagun won't be enough.

 

You can also add up to two Plasma Pistols to your Wolf Scout packs, which are great against almost all Rear Armor values of tanks (exception is Land Raider/Monolith, which are 14 all-around).

 

 

V

[Godhead]

I have had terrible experiences with my scouts. For every good experience I have 3 meh or just bad ones to offset. Poor reserve rolls and then that unlucky roll that puts them on the side of the board where you can do absolutely zero good and die next turn has really put me off to these guys, or finally getting them to where I need them and they muff the shot. Now I'm using 3 pods in my current list dropping two dreads with assault cannons to hopefully get rear/side armor shots on tanks, supported with 1 or 2 TML speeders. I like MM's but not on my dreads. I prefer something a little more flexible. For every 2 flubbed shots I can typically get one that comes through for me.

[Greywolf]

Melta armed Dread in a Drop Pod

 

Long Fangs with 2 Lascannons/2 Missile Launchers

 

Meltas in my Grey Hunter Packs

 

Pintle mounted Meltas where I can get them on vehicles

 

Those four things usually do the trick for me in just about any list I write.

[saphius]

I think the question has several answers... The real question is what do you currently have in your list? I'll give you my philosophy on how to run a solid force that wastes half of the opponents guns turn 1 and 2 and possibly through 3 while allowing you to take out what you desire.

 

My successful lists are usually (not always) going to waste half of my opponents guns. Here's how. - Make sure through turn 2 or 3 that all you have on the board is Vehicles or infantry. I know people aren't huge fans of foot slogging but trust me, 10 Grey hunters a WG pack leader, and possibly a Wolf priests running across the board will get the job done. Especially when you have 6 squads - which is quite affordable.

 

If all you run are infantry then any anti-vehicle weapons are wasted. And in reality you move and run turn 1, and by turn two you can usually have range for rapid fire - when you have over 70 marines moving across the board people have a hard time finding places to hide. And worse case, it takes 2 turns of running. Now in this type of list you want to run 1 or even 2 full scout squads. - The only real ranged threats are going to be things that can pump out firepower and sit back. Even land raiders want to be moving forward to deliver their package. Go ahead, take the charge W/ 10 GH, a MoTW, a Standard, a WG w/ a PF, and a Wolf priest giving them all re-rolls and a counter assault check at LD 10. You MAY loose the unit (Unlikely) but in either case you WILL kill off about everything that a land raider can deliver. (Beware of TDA W/ Lighting claws and furious charge.) - 10 or 20 scouts from behind will kill anything that doesn't move forward. Now, I realize this seems detracted from your question but here's your answer now:

 

- Take Long Fangs in this list. Your opponent will only have range to shoot the Fangs and won't be able to get there w/ out going through 60+ Grey hunters. (Depending on list size. round here we play 2000-2500 but in either case, a lot of marines.) And seeing as how and non-idiot will put their Fangs in cover, more than half the time he's shooting you with his big guns he's not doing anything. Sit back with some lascannons and watch your Grey Hunters move up w/ 3-4 Meltas a unit taking out and raider or transport that dare come close.

 

Now if you're running an all pod list (hard, but doable) stick to Long Fangs, and leave the dreads at home. - You'll give up killpoints to loosing those drop pods but won't lose effectiveness. I would even recommend - Assuming a larger game - 6 LF w/ 5 Multi-Meltas, Logan, and a TDA WG in a pod. - That will be two dead vehicles on the drop from one unit. And, if anyone feels like charging your long fangs, have run, Logan and his WG will make quick work of them assuming you don't hag yourself out to dry. - Though I will caution you, when you blow up those land raiders on the drop, make sure you have a full unit of Plasma Hunters or Combi-Plasma WG drop there as well to clean up the nasty units.

 

So, to sum up, if your running a NON-Mech list (including a mostly or all pod list, run the Fangs).

 

Now, if your running an all mech list and want turn 1 or 2 vehicle killers Ven Dread in a pod w/ a Multi melta would be my first suggestion. Next would be TLLC Razorbacks then vindicators, then speeders. - I prefer the survivability and versatility of the Vindicator to the speeders.

 

The Ven dread is awesome, even by himself imo. If everything you have is in tanks across the board and you race forward first turn with and raiders you have, vindicators you have, and move and shoot you TLLC razorbacks, you can put some hurt one. And don't forget he hit's on 2's and will ALWAYS be in double melta range. - A full scatter is 12 inches, put the pod next to the vehicle and when the dread gets out even after a full scatter, ta' da! you're only 9-10 inches away hitting on 2's. And seeing as your opponent now has vindicator(s) on the way, possibly a landraider or two, and a lascannon razorback or two taking shots and even possibly a speeder flying up, that dread looks a lot less of a threat. And don't forget, anything below Str 6 is worthless in his army at this point. Nothing on the board can be hurt by anything but High strength shots. - Keep those speeders moving and in cover if possibly, keep that Razorback out of range, and hide any other Rhinos or Razorbacks behind your wall of AV 14/13 and he's got a real problem. - He can't get at infantry without cracking something AV 14 or something two far away to matter. And if he doesn't take care of a dread it's going to blow up another tank and charge any unit that was inside it.

 

Now if you prefer a mix list, I'd say Either could work. But your opponent will be able to act more opportunisticly with his target priority. In this case you need to be precise and I'd say leave the Vindicators, Dreads, and expensive razorbacks at home - the TLLC Missle dread is not a favorite of mine. Waste of such good CC ability and not survivable enough in a mix list. Take the Fangs or the speeders or both.

 

Now, I realize I've done more of a personal tactica than just a recommendation on what unit to take but I wanted to illustrate that it really depends on what you are running. All of them are viable, all can be effective in any list, but to increase their longevity and to maximize their damage potential I think running them something akin to what I have mentioned pulls the most out of them.

 

Hope this helped and hope the wall of text wasn't to daunting.

 

- I didn't spell or grammar check this if I made a mistake.

[TiguriusX]

There was a good discussion on this not too long ago that might be worth your time

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=186175

 

Good debate with feedback from some of the brain trust members of the SW forum (Grey Mage / WG Vrox etc)

 

Many pros/cons and tactical usage of the proposed units were made

 

I believe the majority top candidate was 2 LS with 2xMM (cheap and utility outside tank hunting)

 

I am still partial to Logan working with LC LFs if it fits with the rest of the army (love the idea of S10 lascannons)

[wolf363839]

One final thought. I understand your concern about AV 13 & 14. However, typically these units are rare in enemy army lists, only 2-3 vehicles at most. Therefore, when facing this kind of enemy, try to eliminate or cripple or delay everything else in his army first, and let his AV 14 come to you (i.e. transports for Orks and enemy SM). In short, kill him piecemeal with shooting, and then mop up in close combat.

 

In the case of Guard & Tau, I field a totally different list, which is focused around getting bikes & attack bikes up close and personal. It's not seen very much, but I field Blood Claw bikers with a meltagun, attack bike with multi melta, and a powerfist either in the pack or on an HQ leading the pack. And I field 2 packs of them for redundancy's sake.

 

They are superb against Tau because if they do their job, his tanks are yours. If they fail, they still attract firepower from the rest of your army making the assault.

 

Against IG use them on the flanks to eliminate as much armor as possible throughout the game as they close in.