For the Drop pod Player: Dawn of War

[zedsdead]

Im looking for some advice on how full drop pod players deal with DoW deployment. Especially when they are given forst turn. I would also like to hear ideas on second turn as well.

 

I run a full Salamanders drop pod list anywhere from 1750-2k points. Mostly 2k

 

My 2k list consists of

Motf

Vulkan

3 tac squuads

6 dreads (2 ironclads, 4 mm)

5man assault squad (vulkan and Motf accompany them)

 

Thats a total of 10 pods.

 

Ive been trying different ways of coming in first turn. Usually i go conservative and will drop in 3 tacs mid range with 2 dread support. Ill try to go midrange and setup the tacs to fire missles 2nd turn the dreads will accompany them for support.

 

Ive attempted dumping the 5 dreads right in there deployment zone and popping smoke. this has worked with mixed results. especially vs mech vedetta IG lists. Ill try to weather the storm and then im within melta assault range. However i rarely survive with many dreads. So its a little used option.

 

Ive also dropped 3 empty pods and walked on the tac squads. then drop 2 dreads in midrange.

 

Out of all of the setups this deployment gives me the most fits. i find i can really almost lose the game by 2nd turn if i dont choose properly.

 

The boards lack any tacticas on how drop podders deal with this deployment and maybe we could get one going here.

[Top Secret]

Why go right for the enemy? I often read of Drop Pod armies doing this and I do not believe it is the only option. If playing Capture and Control, or Seize Ground why not start planting those pods on objectives? Podding right into the enemies hands only to pop smoke puts you at a disadvantage. While this tactic works great if just doing one or two Ironclads (great way to stall the enemy) I do not see the benefit in doing it with your entire army. Using the C:SM dex, you have the advantage in that you KNOW what pods are coming down turn one.

 

If you do wish to pod unto the enemy, I'm not sure I understand why you have two Ironclads and four normal Dreadnoughts. I would rather have five Ironclads total than two Ironclads and four Dreadnoughts. I understand the desire to have the 12 inch melta range, but honestly, if you die before you can fire, what is the point? Cut down on one pod. You still drop five on turn one.

 

Five AV 13's is a lot harder to deal with than two AV 13's and three AV 12's.

 

Another small criticism I have is, where are the Deathwind missile launchers? They are REQUIRED in my opinion. First, they turn your AV 12 annoyance into an actual threat. Second they are a STR 5 Large blast weapon. As for pods NOT coming down on turn one, I could see doing without them as the number of turns they actually get to fire could be minimal but for turn one pods, get them.

 

Just some suggestions, hopefully they will benefit you in some way.

 

*Edit*

 

Here is a quick list I threw together, based on yours:

 

Vulkan

MOTF

5 Man Assault Squad in DP

3x Tactical Squads (F/MM)

3x Drop Pods

5x Ironclads (HF/MG)

5x Drop pods w/ Deathwind Missile Launchers

 

Now on turn one, you have more armor, AND your drop pods are now a threat as each one has a STR 5 large blast. This comes in right at 2005 points. You could cut a Heavy Flamer off one Ironclad to make the list legal.

[Grey Mage]

Well first off, I think your crazy to take 10 pods like that.

 

Drop the assault squad, get yourself a nice brace of landspeeders, or at the least a typhoon- why, because those are units you can gaurantee will be on the board first turn.

 

Frankly though, it comes down to the equipment on your Dreads/ Tacs. You NEED long range firepower, even it you wont always use it. A missile Launcher is free, do all of your tacticals have one? I notice none of your dreads have anything over 24", you should surely fix that.

 

Because the best thing to do when the enemy gets second deployment in Dawn of War is to deploy two tactical squads, and keep their pods in reserve. Give them decent fire arcs.

 

Then, if your opponent drops in nothing at all, drop some guys in near cover or near your gunline, and set up a nice firing line... and then use your reserve pods to hit him later in the game. Feel free to drop those empty pods in to block LOS, convenient entry points, and block up natural funnels.

 

Because right now your list shows alot of what can be wrong with DP lists- you have no long range options, you have no fast options, and you have 1/5 of your army in pods alone.

 

1) Drop the assault squad and put your ICs with some tacticals.

2) Get a landspeeder Typhoon, or two.

3) Upgrade some of your Dreads to autocannons/plasmacannons/lasccannons, and get some heavy flamers on them.

4) Consider getting some scouts, and cutting your total pods down to 7 if you need the points- and if you get scouts make sure they have a storm.

[zedsdead]

My tacticals actually take missle launchers. i like the ability to drop my 3 squads futher back. The dreads have enough imho melta to take out tanks, plus my squads have meltas so i can combat squad them as well.

 

Grey mage i appreciate your comments on list building for optimisation outside of using drop pods.. but im looking for DoW tactic using fully podded armies. The list is built and i play it with a great deal of success. However Dow trips me up. I would be willing to test some ideas within the parameters of a fully podded list. Ones like Top secret posted are more what im looking for in the thread. However i do appreciate the comments.

 

Im not also necessarily looking for how "this List" would work in DoW but how people who use Full podded armies tacticaly make there armies work in DoW setups and scenarios. I think that players who play against those armies can also shed light on how the may work better.

 

Top secret. Ive considered going more ICs instead of only 2. however ive found out that with a DP list tha going all out with max pods seems the most effective way to go. I also figure if im taking the Motf i should be maxing there numbers out. Dropping to all normal dreads actually would allow me to field 6 dreads in first turn. However i like the IC's too much to take them out. I also tried the deathwinds as well. However without the ability to use them first turn they seem like such a waste on such a fragile chassis. However tactically its a very sound and great idea in this scenario... so i might have to give them another try. 100 points however seem like a lot.

[Grey Mage]

And I wasnt talking about out of DP forces- Nothing in the forces I mentioned is unable to deepstrike into combat, or is unfluffy in a DP force. *shrugs*.

 

The problem that DOW shoes keenly is that DPs mean your tactics are somewhat predictable, and the list you showed above is straightforward enough to be even more predictable. Drop in the Dreads as a first wave, kill things, mop up with reserve dread, RAS and tacticals to bolster/take objectives. What Im proposing is inside the same style of force that you diversify your selections, giving you more ability to adapt your plans to the changing battles around you.

 

Do you play WFB? Two small core choices of warriors and alot of chaos knights is a very "strong" list until someone knows how to counter it properly, or you get a terrain setup that allows your enemy to take away its main strengths. This DP list is the same way- it is very strong, its just not flexable. But each person has their own playstyle, I just think a lack of flexability it shooting yourself in the foot.

 

I wouldnt take the DW launcher- the DP is a deilivery system, and its main benefit is its cheap and efficient. Every time you add an upgrade that isnt absolutely needed you take away from its strengths.

 

I also would point out that alot of Khan Players feel if a unit isnt outflanking theyre somehow "wasting" points/potential and that many vulkan players will max out the number of TL weapons to the exclusion of weapons that might help them round out their list and defeat foes they otherwise get rolled by. So if you feel the need to drop your dreads down to five, dont hesitate- try it out and see what happens.

 

Now, I dont play 2k of DPs often, but when I last did it was like so:

 

HQ: 185pts.

Rune Priest- Bike, Master of Runes, Stormcaller, Living Lightning- 185pts.

 

Elites: 405pts.

Dreadnaught- Assault Cannon, HF, EA- DP- 165pts.

Dreadnaught- MM, EA- DP- 155pts.

5 Scouts- Meltagun- 85

 

Troops: 1055

10 GHs- 2x Meltagun, PW, DP- 205pts.

10 GHs- 2x Meltagun, PW, DP- 205pts.

10 GHs- 2x Meltagun, PW, DP- 205pts.

10 GHs- 2x Plasmagun, PF, DP- 220pts.

10 GHs- 2x Plasmagun, PF, DP- 220pts.

 

 

6 Swiftclaws- Powerfist- 175pts.

Landspeeder Typhoon- 90pts.

Landspeeder Typhoon- 90pts.

 

Only non-dsing unit in the list is the swiftclaws, who are for the record half a THs worth of bikers.

 

Anyways, DOW rolls up, I get first turn... knowing the IG player, I figured hed deploy almost all of his stuff in reserves, "wasting" my first turn advantage. So I deployed to squads of GHs as far forward as I could get, in cover in some ruins, and I then dropped in... the AC Dread, another GH pack with Meltas, and two empty DPs placed to block his way into some ruins near the opposite table edge that also allowed me to neatly cut his deployment zone into two rough chunks.

 

Had he gone first and deployed in entirely in reserves, I would have done much the same. Why? Because if theres nothing to shoot at the appropriate thing to do is to set up a firing position and wait for your targets to appear so you can send them to oblivion. We used to call this "overwatch".

 

However you wish to accomplish this, I find it is without a doubt the best way to deal with this kind of situation.

 

If my opponent is Nidz or Orks where I know theyll come to me and their primary weakness is the time I have to shoot at them first, I wont drop on their lines- Ill drop down a gunline and shoot the crap out of them, then drop the other side of the vise behind them and crush them between the two halves of my army.

 

Make sense at all?

[zedsdead]

grey mage... this is the stuff im looking for. I get where your coming from.

 

I was assuming the dread setup you mentioned didnt include drop pods. Riflemens usually sit back in deployment. Other then that yea.. your ideas are all deep striking units of some form. If i called them unfluffy my apologies :)

 

I have found that DoW the scenario plays a huge part. In objective missions ive started placing as many objectives to one side of the board as much as i can. Regardless of who gets to place first ill follow up with placing one within 12 " of his near the same edge. What i want to do is to get my opponent to consider going first by tempting him to go for the easy objectives grab first turn. Its worked well vs gunline armies. If they choose to still give me first turn ill take the side heavy on objectives and make him come to me.

 

in my list i also run the MLs instead of MM's on my tacs. So far they have worked better then expected in being able to deploy further away if needed.

[Grey Mage]

Ahh... I see. Well yes, people dont often see a Dreadnaught with a Autocannon and Heavy Flamer come out of a Drop Pod.... but that doesnt make them any less effective for all that :huh:.

 

I do like that idea on the markers though.... I usually try to spread them out against most forces, to try and split the enemy up... then apply just enough of the right kind of pressures to make their army collapse accross the board. I find it suits DPs, with their superior ability to deploy what you need where you need it. *shrugs*.

[zedsdead]

In my area the IG players (mech vet +vendetta lists) love giving me first turn. They dont bother reserving and just role in on first turn after ive landed my troops and take there shots. Night fight has been my friend on many occasions. Do you find an optimal range on aggresive deployments in DoW ? Mid field 24" or around "18. Ive actaully from time to time loaded one side of my opponents deployment with so much stuff that they were forced to deploy on only 1/2 of there deployment area using the drop pods as a wall between us.ill place them less agressivly within there deployment area. so i get cover.

 

Whats your opinion on just dumping into there deplyment and popping smoke and hoping night fight will protect you ?

 

Mech vets still need to be avoided however because there so loaded with melta its almost impossible to not get hurt.

 

 

I find myself in killpoint missions deploying less agressivly to protect my "easy kill" pods. The thing is it just goes against the grain in how Pods work. I find myself struggling with going overboard agressive with them..

 

Ive also toyed with actually removing a squad to get 100 points to put deathwind launchers into the first 5 pods that land. I agree with keeping them cheap. However the ST5 templates seem pretty tempting to have on turn 2. The biggest thing i find is the dreads really can open up the transports. However its the darn infantry filled with meltas that spill out which tend to bring down the dreads. So im wondering if those dw launchers might be valuable in taking them out. ?

[Grey Mage]

Against IG?

 

Air Mounted IG?

 

Yeah, two of those dreads would definitely be sporting TLACs on BOTH arms lol. Id drop them down, and the tacticals, on turn 1, and Id do it about midfield, near cover, with my rear end covered and then Id light up anything that was in the sky the next turn- use the dreads to pop the transports, use the marines to kill the squads inside.

 

Do you have heavy flamers on your dreads? If theyre not sporting 2x TLACs then they should have heavy flamers... infantry problems will go down. You also need to increase the range you can kill enemy infantry at- you want 12" for that +2d6 armor pen, and they want it to they can return the favor... not good.

 

The Deathwind Launchers really comes down to... are you killing those Valkyries when the pod drops, or are you killing them the turn after when the valkyrie comes to you to kill the dreadnaught? Because if its the first turn where you have the element of suprise you r shooting yourself in the foot to take the template, but if its the turn after then your more likely to get some points out of it.

[Top Secret]

I also tried the deathwinds as well. However without the ability to use them first turn they seem like such a waste on such a fragile chassis. However tactically its a very sound and great idea in this scenario... so i might have to give them another try. 100 points however seem like a lot.

 

I can see why you might be hesitant, but you need to realize just what you are getting for 100 points:

 

First, and most importantly, your enemy has FIVE more AV12 Open Topped "vehicles" to worry about. Nobody stresses over a Stormbolter. This is what is commonly known as presenting your enemy with two bad choices. If he (or she) is shooting at your Dreadnoughts, they are not shooting at your Drop Pods. If they are shooting at your Drop Pods (which is the goal here, we WANT them to shoot at the drop pods) they aren't shooting at anything else!

 

Second, the the anti-horde capabilities of a Deathwind vs Stormbolter are far in the Deathwind's favor. This means your Dreadnoughts can concentrate more on armor, while the Deathwinds can concentrate on Troops and Transports.

 

Third, a Deathwind can open up a transport. Being a template weapon with a BS4, it has a decent chance of hitting a Rhino-sized transport (I believe the math is about 50% chance with a BS3, not sure how much better it is with a BS4). It will pen or glance 1/3 of the time they hit. Remember, you have five of them. And even if you "miss" you could still "hit" something. You could very easily disable two or more transports in a game.

 

Oh, and did I mention FIVE Strength FIVE LARGE Blasts per round? Assuming a Turn 5 ending, that is a probable twenty shots in a game.