Powerfists for Grey Hunters, Worth It?

[Joasht]

While I can understand and do not deny the effectiveness of the Power Fist, I've been thinking that for squads with a WG (with a fist), is it worth the extra XXXX points to get in that extra fist on a normal Grey Hunter, especially if the squad also has a MotW member (for the off chance of rending)? It might not seen like too much if you cut it down from one squad, but given that most people run 3-4 squads in an average army, thats quite alot of points.

 

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

[Rocknar]

I found it is not worth it if the WG has a fist, a power weapon is just fine. I used a fist for a GH and a Frost blade for a while and found it not as effective as the other way around.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

I found it really help take a Wolf Guard with Power Fist.

 

Sure the Wolf Guard a few pts more than a GH, but he still getting a cheap Power Fist, he cheaper than a Power Fist arm Grey Hunter in the end by a few pts & you are still getting a good amount attack if arm on a Wolf Guard over the normal Grey Hunter.

 

I mean on the Charge would you rather have two Power Fist attacks from a Grey Hunter or three from the Wolf Guard. As those extra attack can help.

 

For my own army in general I tend to run three unit of Grey Hunter, each with Wolf Guards pack leader. Mark of Wulfen in the smaller unit to make up the number for Combat reason, say if I battle orks/nids, support by the Power Weapon & Power Fist Wolf Guard. While my Rhino base units will have a Power Weapon & a Power Fist Wolf Guard, the Rune Pirest with Sage of the Warrior born make up for the no mark of wulfen in that unit.

 

It alway work for me :) It all about trying to limit the damnge in return & trying to not get stuck in combat for to long. Also what will happen if your unit come across a Ironclad Dreadnought for exsample, the Krak greandes will not save them from this Dreadnought.

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

I've just recently fielded Grey Hunters with two powerfists in each pack in a tourney. My Set up is this:

 

Wolf Guard, Powerfist, CombiMelta

8 Grey Hunters

Powerfist

Mark Of Wulfen

Meltagun

Wolf Standard

Rhino

 

I run three of these units as my core force and whilst being a tad bit more exspensive they dominate in combat, 5 Powerfist attacks on the charge/counter charge really hurts and means any rending hits from the Wulfen are a nice little bonus. I ended up not doing so brialliantly in the tourney due to some silly mistakes but the Grey Hunters saved my ass a few times and I would have ended up doing worse if it wasnt for thier ferociousness.

 

Check the link out in my signature to see the battle reports.

[Hear da Lamentation]

In my games (1000points) I have 2 GH squads in rhinos. I have one (maxed for assault) with 1 PF WG and 1PF GH, MotW, WS. As Wolf Guard Hengist says .... 5 powerfist attacks on the charge is hard to pass up. For the other unit (with the RP) I have 1PW GH and 1PF WG (to save some points - and gain the extra attack the PW gives.)

 

On the probability side, I havent worked it out, but on an average of an extra 3-4 attacks from MotW, I cannot see this matching a powerfist against those high toughness MC or Dreads.

MotW (on charge - average of 5 attacks MoW. Half hit - lets say 3. 1/2 chance to get a 6 and wound.)

PF (on charge - 2 attacks. half hit - 1. against any 6 toughness ... 5/6 chance of wounding)

 

Plus of course ... one of the best PF abilities .... insta killing toughness 4 stuff.

[Raulmichile]

Power fisted Grey Hunters are nice IF they are joined by a Power fist Wolf Guard. It is a nice backup.

 

5PF attacks in the first round of combat are not bad at all. If your intention is tu run the units without Wolf Guard support it doesn't cut it in my taste. 25 points is too much for only one attack after the first round of combat.

 

It is two or nothing.

[Night Runner]

Against Necrons and Nids I always welcome two PFs in the pack (including the WG), they do well in a defensive or aggressive positions. Against Edar and Tau I might not see the justification for the points usage, where one with the WG would probably be enough for dealing against armour.

[HERO]

Only place I would ever put a PF is on a WG in a GH squad.

[Valerian]

Against Necrons and Nids I always welcome two PFs in the pack (including the WG), they do well in a defensive or aggressive positions. Against Edar and Tau I might not see the justification for the points usage, where one with the WG would probably be enough for dealing against armour.

 

I like this assessment Night Runner. An extra Power Fist is quite helpful against certain armies. I would count other Marines (or MEQs) among them, as the Power Fist is great at overcoming high Toughness and good Armor Saves. Against "weaker" armies (low Toughness and poor Saves), it would be a waste. Against these types (IG and Tau, for example), I'd probably leave the Power Weapon behind, too, and just stick with the MotW to get a few more attacks.

 

Valerian

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

Against Necrons and Nids I always welcome two PFs in the pack (including the WG), they do well in a defensive or aggressive positions. Against Edar and Tau I might not see the justification for the points usage, where one with the WG would probably be enough for dealing against armour.

 

That is good wisdom however I build lists to fight any opponent and dont tailor for certain armies so I always end up just taking that extra fist anyway.

[rodgers37]

I might be being stupid...but what is the advantage of taking a Wolf Guard with a PF?

Especially if the squad is in a rhino...it means you can't have the two special guns...only 1....and i really like having 2 flamers (for anti-horde/troop), 2 meltas (for anti-tank) or 2 plasmas (this is normally my squad that sits back).......

[Emperor's Scourge]

Because the WG has two base attacks...three on the charge. He can insta-gib folks rather nicely with that STR 8 power attack.

[Valerian]

I might be being stupid...but what is the advantage of taking a Wolf Guard with a PF?

Especially if the squad is in a rhino...it means you can't have the two special guns...only 1....and i really like having 2 flamers (for anti-horde/troop), 2 meltas (for anti-tank) or 2 plasmas (this is normally my squad that sits back).......

 

The advantage is the extra attack in every phase of combat. If you are putting the unit in a 10-capacity transport, then just give the Fist-wielding WGL a Combi-melta or Combi-flamer to get that second special weapon.

 

V

[saphius]

No.

[Marek Grimfang]

My train of thought is this.

 

Any squad under any army or codex requires redundancy.

 

Redundancy with Space Wolves for me is this:

 

1.) 2x Special Weapons in a pack as they compliment each other and fulfill a role. Add whatever you want PF/PW to the lone GH, or at minimum a Plasma Pistol.

 

OR

 

2.) 2x Assault/Melee Weapons as in PF/PW. For this kind of pack I usually almost always want both of them to be the same. So a WGL and a GH both with either a PF or a PW, and the obligatory Plasma Gun/Flamer/Melta Gun.

 

Barring that, add a WGBL with the same PF/PW and you have a pretty killy pack.

 

Three models attacking with three PW's is a lot of hits.

[Joasht]

1.) 2x Special Weapons in a pack as they compliment each other and fulfill a role. Add whatever you want PF/PW to the lone GH, or at minimum a Plasma Pistol.

 

OR

 

2.) 2x Assault/Melee Weapons as in PF/PW. For this kind of pack I usually almost always want both of them to be the same. So a WGL and a GH both with either a PF or a PW, and the obligatory Plasma Gun/Flamer/Melta Gun.

 

I understand the point you are coming from, but I've personally always preferred all my "main combat units" to be able to take on scary targets in close quarters, even more so with Space Wolves given that they are pretty much required to be very close to the opponent to even shoot their special weapons. The last thing you want to do is to somehow get your transport popped and your "no special melee weapon" squad charged by a Dread equivalent, Wraithlord or very big scary MC.

 

For me, IMO, there are two squads I'd consider:

 

1) The big killy squad; full squad with a PF-equipped WG. This is the squad I'm questioning the worth attaching a Powerfist to because while it does make them a little more killy, the points you pay for the Powerfists start stacking up when you take multiple of this squad; points that might be spent elsewhere.

 

2) The objective holding squad, because after that one game with five objectives I figured I probably really need a static squad. 5 GHs with a Plasmagun (longer range) and a WG with a PF and Combi-Plasma in a Razorback (probably with TL HBs to keep the cost down), so that they can sit in one place and provide covering fire, and if they get charged by something fairly nasty at least they have a fighting chance with the PF and numerous basic attacks. Plus the squad is fairly decently priced, with the razorback included it comes to just over a naked 10-man GH squad.

[TiguriusX]

This has been an interesting thread. I basically had a rule that I NEVER put a PF on a GH. But hearing some of the arguments has shown me some limited usage.

 

I can definitely see how an assault GH squad with GH+PF and WG+PF can put the smack down on an opponent (someone is even using a WG with 2PF in his list)

 

I still hesitate at the point cost though

[Evilbob]

I know that most people seem to take an All Comers approach to building an army list and answering questions like this, but I just find it too narrow minded to take the same set ups against different opponents. For me, if I'm fighting my buddy's 1k Sons with Invul saves or my two friends Chaos Demons armies with invul saves I stick to MotW or power weapons. Same for Orks. Against Guard I like having the 2 special weapons and 1 fist incase I get some bad stuff Valkyried onto me or those Russes are getting too close for comfort. 2 plasma or 2 melta with a fist will give tanks pause before they get too close to unload troops. Against sisters (which my friend takes a lot of tanks in) or my other buddies regular CSM where I don't need to worry about everything having an inulnerable save I love taking the power fist and a WG with another fist to crush the rebellious scum.