Combating a Lash List

[Bloodmange]

Like the title says, I'm playing Space Wolves list and one of my friends plays a Lash CSM list. How do I overcome Lash and how does it work? Im thinking of running a mech list with Bjorn as my HQ and MAYBE an Iron Priest. Any thoughts?

[Sarapham]

Well a very simple answer is that transports and rune priests are your friend to help you make lash useless.

[Chucku]

Well a very simple answer is that transports and rune priests are your friend to help you make lash useless.

 

This. Njal will make you even better if you have the points.

[Bloodmange]

Using Njal may be the way to go since Ive already got him in a list I'm runnging now. Though I do want bjorn still

[MagneticFreak]

Using Njal may be the way to go since Ive already got him in a list I'm runnging now. Though I do want bjorn still

 

Then add a runepriest! You can do that!

 

Yeah, its kinda sad for the chaos players, but their psychic powers are pretty easy to turn off by all marines/eldars players. Even Arhiman can be turned into a useless power weapon holder by very easy going armies...

 

Then, the only thing you need to worry about are the cult marines.

[rodf]

the player running lash will get it through once or twice in a game but is expected , deploy away from the daemon and make move into the open to get closer to you , get a couple of rounds of good fire on it.....thats the best way to defend against it , bring it down. if you try to lock it down in an objectives game with a rune priest or njal , you may lose to a fail atempt to use the rune staff and find the chaos player pulling you off a needed objective for an easy win. i seen a game where the daemon will fly to contest one objective and lash getting through a failed rune staff check only to have a scoring unit be pulled off another. Double lash list is not uncommon, best thing to do is bring those beasties down.

[Grey Mage]

Is there any reason not to give every single HQ a wolf tail talisman?

 

Not in this edition of the game there isnt.

 

Rhinos will protect most squads though.

[antique_nova]

Well, with 100% success against lash lists recently, 3 drop pods podding down first turn with 3 squads of grey hunters with power fists, thunderhammer and melta guns with a rune priest seem to help with jotww. Also having them supported by 2 squads long fangs with 3x missile launchers + 2x lascannon seems to spell doom for them every time i meet them. Adding another rune priest with jotww wouldn't hurt either in 1500 points and onwards.

thanks

antique_nova

[Stormbrow II]

Rune Priests and Transports for your grunts is the short answer.

[DV8]

Rather than try and spell out units X, Y or Z to use against the Lash, why not just explain what Lash does, what it's effective against, and why, so that the OP will actually LEARN how to combat not only Lash, but similar powers in the future?

 

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life.

 

Lash is a psychic power. What it does is it targets one of your units (not vehicles of any sort) and, if successful, that unit immediately moves (it's either D6" or 2D6", can't remember off the top of my head) in any direction, under the control of the Chaos player. That means he can Lash a unit out of cover, and clump them together to land a Demolisher shell on their heads. As an example.

 

That's what makes Lash particularly nasty, because as long as the Psychic power is successful, there's very little you can do to fight it unless you have certain items handy (and that's assuming you expected to come up against it). HOWEVER Lash in and of itself is rather useless; it's only when working in combination with other units does it really come into it's own.

 

Now then how do you over come it? Before you even encounter the power, remember that it is a psychic shooting attack, bound by those rules. Meaning that it has a range, and needs Line of Sight. So to mitigate the effects of Lash, before even having to try and stop it, is by being proactive. Deny LoS, hide in transports where your units can't be targetted, or simply stay out of range! All these will help to stop a Lash before you even have to actually "stop" it.

 

Now if you must close to within range of a model with Lash, you can mitigate damage by targeting heavy hitters (like heavy weapon teams, or nearby assault squads, or ground-pounding vehicles like Plasma-Dreads or Vindicators) to limit the damage he can do to you if he successfully Lashes one of your units. You can also make assaulting your unit a rather deadly prospect by including some Power Fists/Weapons, or even a character in there! Learn to analyze what your opponent will try and combo with Lash, and launch a pre-emptive strike by denying him those units with which to combo. Lash by itself is hardly a threat.

 

And of course there are ways you can attempt to stop Lash entirely, using Rune Priests (i.e. Njal or generic) with their Null Rods to create 24" bubbles to try and shut down Lash, or having characters with Wolf Tooth Necklaces.

 

The key is to simply understand what Lash (or any power) does, and to develop a method of handling it based on that understanding (instead of simply trying to combat his rock with your paper). This will allow your experience to grow exponentially and you'll be much better equipped to handle it, or similar/other powers, in the future.

 

EDIT:

 

One thing to remember with Lash is that it doesn't necessarily have to be used as an offensive power, i.e. to lure units into prime positions to take damage. It can also be used defensively, to knock units out of the game for a turn or two (i.e. Long Fangs), denying you the use of those units as you reposition them, OR by opening up an avenue by which your opponent can throw the rest of his army. Anticipate this by either keeping such units out of range, out of LoS, or out of your list entirely! Or ensure that your opponent never gets Lash within range of said units. Don't bank simply on a Null Rod to completely shut down Lash.

 

 

DV8

[Bloodmange]

DV8 that was exactly what I was looking for, thanks a ton! So in the list I have in my head I cant decide between taking Njal, 2 generic rune priests, or maybe Bjorn. Im mostly just trying to come up with an anti-lash list. I know the Chaos player has a Defiler, and 1 Demon Prince, and Lucious the Eternal and some cult marines at least. Anyways I was thinking of tanking up, get my 2 grey hunter squads in Rhinos go for 1 shooty dreads (maybe 2 autocannons?) and 1 more suited to melee but still has long range fire with maybe a multi-melta. Sit them next to a pair of predators with an Iron priest hiding behind them if they get shot up. If I go for Njal maybe just run him behind the rhinos or keep him in cover? If I go 2 Rune Priests I could just drop 1 grey hunter from each pack and run them with the grey hunters in the rhinos. And Bjorn Id probably keep him right by the iron priest and just shoot with him. At least this is just the preliminary ideas I could do, What do you guys think?

[Iacton Qruze]

To elaborate on DV8's answer, the distance is 2d6, and the affected unit is then forced to make a pinning check, but his assessment is sound.

[White Hunter]

First, Great info DV8 great points. I would like to echo one in particular though. Lash is dangerous because it is combined with vindis, oblits, and other units that can trash even units in TDA. Therefore when I play I focus on two things. 1. neutralize the part of his army that actually kills units 2. Kill the lash user. Granted this sounds simple in practice, however as always not as easy as it sounds. Personally I feel that Space wolves are uniquely qulaifed to handle lash for a 2 major of reasons.

 

1. Long Fangs- Cheap Heavy Weapons (i.e ML and Lascannons) combined with split fire means that you can put wounds on the lash user or knock his killers (vindi, defiler, etc) out at long distance.

2. Rune Priests- negating psychic powers on a 4+ is massive with this unit, in addition Runic weapons make daemon's cry wounding on a 2+, also much of the army is NOT immune to ID.

3. Wolf Scouts- Though a suicide unit this again is a unit that can kill what the chaos player relies on to make lash so dangerous

 

in addition we can use the tricks that Codex: marines have as well

 

3. Drop Pod Dreads- same as wolf scouts though more of an investment

4. Land Speeders- fast moving melta platforms can close with the enemy fast

5. Mechanization

 

And again DV8 great work

[Spacefrisian]

And dont forget that it needs line of sight. Might not be much but always keep that in mind.

 

A guy once tried to jaws a unit he couldnt see The guy had parked his Rhino in front of the caster.