I am a bit confused about Tac Terminator hate

[Giga]

In reality, terminator armor is not all that much, simply because basically every army has tons of weapons that will just plain ignore it. Which is why th/ss terminators are the rule - they have a great combination of strengths and weaknesses, and they fill the counterattack niche in vanilla armies. Tac terminators are like tactical squads, and hence need to be supported a lot to do anything.

 

Add lysander and that 5 man squad becomes a very deadly throw away unit, helps make sure the enemy faces lysander at his fullest (ironically he often deflects the lascannons!)

Lysander + 5 tac termies with cyclone missile launcher = 430 pts.

 

That's too expensive for a throwaway unit, IMHO.

[chapter master 454]

In reality, terminator armor is not all that much, simply because basically every army has tons of weapons that will just plain ignore it. Which is why th/ss terminators are the rule - they have a great combination of strengths and weaknesses, and they fill the counterattack niche in vanilla armies. Tac terminators are like tactical squads, and hence need to be supported a lot to do anything.

 

Add lysander and that 5 man squad becomes a very deadly throw away unit, helps make sure the enemy faces lysander at his fullest (ironically he often deflects the lascannons!)

Lysander + 5 tac termies with cyclone missile launcher = 430 pts.

 

That's too expensive for a throwaway unit, IMHO.

 

They are throw away only because they have lysander with them, they are there to add the ranged fear (because land raiders do get popped and having the opponent still sweat from the terminators is valuable). Another note is the term 'throw away' isn't exact: I just throw them at whatever is the deadlyist thing in my opponents army (so far it has proved that they are the most effective line breaker yet). They also perform anti-tank duty if targets are lacking or land raiders are about (because nothing says tough luck when you can carve up easily the one thing many people hate to face because of duriblity). So speaking in general they are actually Kamikazes, they often die but cause serious damage. Think about it, whats more scarey than seeing a unit divide into two entities as they come out the tank and start rampaging with ease through your lines and that your normally tarpit dread or killer ironclad suddenly just gets spanked away while your tank shocking land raider finds itself getting carved in two by a DoG and all the while you have to put down so much firepower onto lysander to get rid of him he will generally become a serious kneecapping factor.

 

and your maths is wrong

Lysander + 5 tac termies with CML and 4 chainfists = 450pts

[Cadarn]

Tactical terminators can be meaty against the right opponent. Yes, they will suffer against things with lots of power weapons or loads of attacks, but considering that many of these will be hitting at equal or higher initiative anyway, then they're still likely to do some mean damage. It's all a case of being canny about how you use them.

 

As mentioned, having an IC alongside them can be useful, especially if they have a Storm Shield or can use their high initiative. I find a Terminator Librarian can be a great companion to Tactical terminators.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that terminators cannot perform a sweeping advance. As such, you run the risk of them being bogged down, or worse, that your opponent might run away, then turn around and charge/shoot you in the next turn. Supporting them with Scouts can be handy.

[Voltaire]

Now, a lot of people rightly point out that strong CC units can kill termies before they swing. BUT, can they kill TEN termies before they swing?

 

Oh god no... not the meatshield theory! No marine, and certainly not a terminator, should be used as a meatshield in CC.

 

 

 

Although I find that Assault-terminators are excellent extermination/clean-up units, I still enjoy and recognize the value of ranged terminators. An example of this is when your fighting a hoard army and need some form of support that will force the enemy to split there (It's can easily be a her as it is a him) attention. A ten man Terminator squad teleporting behind the hoard and peppering them with 20 bolter rounds will certainly get their attention as well as giving you some breathing room.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Now, a lot of people rightly point out that strong CC units can kill termies before they swing. BUT, can they kill TEN termies before they swing?

 

Oh god no... not the meatshield theory! No marine, and certainly not a terminator, should be used as a meatshield in CC.

 

Of course ten terminators are a force not to be taken lightly. ITS TEN TERMINATORS! 5 on the other hand... not so scary

 

and yes, marines whole MO doesnt involve throwing away battle brothers, ever.

[Voltaire]

What I mean by my example is simply that a squad of shooty marines is an immediate threat on the turn it teleports on the field.

Assault terminators are not as nearly as scary outside of assault range. It's actually very amusing to see assault terminators forced to footslog.

 

 

Plus I've actually found that the 'shooty' terminators are much better against hoard armies than Assault Terminators, but they are far less effective against elite armies. E.G. SM, Eldar, CSM and so on. Vice versa with the Assault Terminators.