Fighting Eldar with SW.

[SJumppanen]

So everyone agrees that those pathfinders are going to stay back, possibly holding objectives there? As in: not going to take and hold objectives by infiltrating them?

Its possible that theyll infiltrate and take one, but most players wont do this because 1) Its only possible in one mission and 2) Its safer to keep them in the backfield- they have good range so they dont need to be placed forward.

 

As for striking scorpions- 160pts gets him 40 attacks on the charge at I 5... wich turns into about 3.5 dead marines before you get your counter-attack. For another 40ish points they infiltrate, get some bonus attacks, and can take out bigger things.

 

Banshees are better against marines, but only a little.

 

Come to think of it, my last message is kind of stupid. Fight is Annihilation. DUH! :D

[gojira316]

Just played against an all Jetbike army last week with SW. They do not like Thunderwolf Cavalry. My unit of five wiped out a unit of Shining Spears, the Seer Council, and a squad of Jetbike Guardians in three successive turns only taking a single wound the entire game. Which was from a Fire Prism shooting at them. Long Fangs with Missile Launchers are awesome as is a Rune Priest with Living Lightning.

[SJumppanen]

Just played against an all Jetbike army last week with SW. They do not like Thunderwolf Cavalry. My unit of five wiped out a unit of Shining Spears, the Seer Council, and a squad of Jetbike Guardians in three successive turns only taking a single wound the entire game. Which was from a Fire Prism shooting at them. Long Fangs with Missile Launchers are awesome as is a Rune Priest with Living Lightning.

 

Well, least i got those Long Fangs...

[wiplash]

i play against eldar :lol:

ok they hate heavy flamers, most of their units will be wounded on a 2+ with no save!!!!!

Arjac or anyone with TH/SS always does well if they have a reasonably sized squad to back them up

 

long fangs with ML work against their tanks or infantry

anything S6 and above instant kills (a few things have eternal warrior though)

 

I tend to run landspeeders with heavy flamers and multimelta (something like 70 points each and ALWAYS make their points with me, usually deep strike them in lining them up with a squad, take out most of the squad then move on to a tank, multimeltas aren't affected by the tank upgrade that is only affected by S8, and the other eldar upgrade that makes you roll 2 dice on the damage table you get a +1 for being AP1

 

whirlwinds can work, CAN one game i took one against eldar and with lucky rolling i took out a squad of wraithguard with yriel and their wave serpent in 2 turns

i tend not to take rune priests against eldar becuase my opponent always takes runes of warding and witnessing meaning you roll 3D6 for a test and if you roll above 12 then you suffer perils of the warp.

 

as for striking scorpions they aren't that great against marines they are better against those with lower armour saves, howling banshees are killers, as are dark reapers

if he isnt taking reapers against SM then you should be asking him why?! Loadsa shots wounds on 3+ with no armour saves able to take an entire squad of marines in one phase!

 

anyways please ask me any questions on the above

[SJumppanen]

i play against eldar :lol:

 

anyways please ask me any questions on the above

 

I posted link earlier where you can see my and my opponents list. They aren't very detailed lists but my upgrades are basicaly as follows: Meltas, fists, missiles and HF in typhoon. Any comments about the lists?

[wiplash]

i play against eldar :huh:

 

anyways please ask me any questions on the above

 

I posted link earlier where you can see my and my opponents list. They aren't very detailed lists but my upgrades are basicaly as follows: Meltas, fists, missiles and HF in typhoon. Any comments about the lists?

 

missed that :P ill read it now...

 

EDIT~: Okay so he has an Avatar.... from what i can see your list will have some trouble taking him out, personally i take them out in CC with a couple of TH/SS with arjac or a wolf lord with the beastslayer upgrade

you may take it out with fire though but they are fairly beefy, i have to say a Wolf lord on thunderwolf with TH/SS and wolf tooth necklace goes down a treat :) strike last, 6 attacks on charge 3+ re-rollable to hit, 2+ to wound your gonna wound with most hes gonna save half hes dead :), so if you and your buddy play with counts as ever (just give him some sweet talk that you want to see how good thunderwolves are) and run him with 10-15 wolves, they cause utter carnage remember they fleet too :) 24" range for assault

the points did top out at 2-300 points tho... so a bit pricey!

 

transports, presumably his tanks are armed with bright lances? and he has a few on weapon platforms etc so if you gun your tanks forward 12" (including vindicator tbh as he is short range) and pop smoke giving you a 4+ cover and blocking LOS of the squads behind (if there are any)

next turn your vindi is in range to shoot, and with another 12" move your landraider is likely to be able to assault mofo's and the rhinos be close

 

landspeeder the question is whether you deepstrike or start on the board personally i deepstrike but i usualy run 2 so on average 1 comes in first opportunity for you that may not be the case. Anywho they are great for taking out objective holders against eldars his reapers and scorpions will sadly get a save as they have 3+ but by the looks of things not a single troops choice of his will have a save from the flamer and even the aspect warriors that do will still be wounded on a 2+ XD

 

long fangs, not really sure who to go for :P you could split fire and shoot frag missiles at 2 pathfinder units or you could just shoot krak missiles until you kill a tank (if the tanks are in veiw first turn i would go for this probably the serpent over the falcon but thats down to opinion i think if its an objective game then definately the wave serpent)

 

dont forget about your vehicles once you have disembarked either use them to contest (tbh im not sure if they can!) and tankshock, ramming is risky as the skimmers can dodge

obviously you know what to do with the flamestorm cannons

thats a point

flamestorm cannons and krak missiles from long fangs or speeder = instant death

 

i havent used wolf scouts but im sure they will be good for gassing out pathfinders and dark reapers im sure you know how to use them mate ;)

 

your probably best just tying down the avatar in combat a 10 man squad will keep him occupyed for what? 3 turns or just outright avoiding him!

hopefully ive given you some inspiration, in all honesty ive given myself some from looking at your list

 

thanks

wiplash

[TiguriusX]

when is this matchup scheduled?

 

I'm eagerly awaiting a batrep already!!

[SJumppanen]

when is this matchup scheduled?

 

I'm eagerly awaiting a batrep already!!

 

Next tuesday at noon, local time. Time is now 2302.

[SJumppanen]

i play against eldar :lol:

 

anyways please ask me any questions on the above

 

I posted link earlier where you can see my and my opponents list. They aren't very detailed lists but my upgrades are basicaly as follows: Meltas, fists, missiles and HF in typhoon. Any comments about the lists?

 

missed that :P ill read it now...

 

EDIT~: Okay so he has an Avatar.... from what i can see your list will have some trouble taking him out, personally i take them out in CC with a couple of TH/SS with arjac or a wolf lord with the beastslayer upgrade

 

Well, Specials are out in this tournament. Otherwise there would be Ragnar running around.

 

you may take it out with fire though but they are fairly beefy, i have to say a Wolf lord on thunderwolf with TH/SS and wolf tooth necklace goes down a treat :) strike last, 6 attacks on charge 3+ re-rollable to hit, 2+ to wound your gonna wound with most hes gonna save half hes dead ^_^, so if you and your buddy play with counts as ever (just give him some sweet talk that you want to see how good thunderwolves are) and run him with 10-15 wolves, they cause utter carnage remember they fleet too :) 24" range for assault

the points did top out at 2-300 points tho... so a bit pricey!

 

I propably would have taken WL or WGBL, but that LRR took much of my points and going without least 3 troops is a bad idea. But i think that if i had taken character with I5 i would have used it. I1 weapons go to retinue.

 

transports, presumably his tanks are armed with bright lances? and he has a few on weapon platforms etc so if you gun your tanks forward 12" (including vindicator tbh as he is short range) and pop smoke giving you a 4+ cover and blocking LOS of the squads behind (if there are any)

next turn your vindi is in range to shoot, and with another 12" move your landraider is likely to be able to assault mofo's and the rhinos be close

 

Funny enough, for what i have seen is that this guy has Falcons with that pulse laser and eldar missiles and i think that serpents have pretty much same load out. Apparently to keep things cheap. Come to think of it, i haven't run any calculations on what he may have in his army in upgrade front. As for assaulting, should i try to keep my people inside their transports (rhinos in particular) so that they get to charge right after they disembark? Or do i do, move, disembark, shoot and charge at the next turn manouver?

 

landspeeder the question is whether you deepstrike or start on the board personally i deepstrike but i usualy run 2 so on average 1 comes in first opportunity for you that may not be the case. Anywho they are great for taking out objective holders against eldars his reapers and scorpions will sadly get a save as they have 3+ but by the looks of things not a single troops choice of his will have a save from the flamer and even the aspect warriors that do will still be wounded on a 2+ XD

 

Match is Annihilation with Dawn of war deployment. So this is night fight at the first turn and as a special rule night fight may continue to second turn at 4+ roll. So i was thinking of starting on table or possibly off table depending on if i go first or second.

 

long fangs, not really sure who to go for :P you could split fire and shoot frag missiles at 2 pathfinder units or you could just shoot krak missiles until you kill a tank (if the tanks are in veiw first turn i would go for this probably the serpent over the falcon but thats down to opinion i think if its an objective game then definately the wave serpent)

 

Personaly i was planing to shoot at whatever looks like the most likely to die at once. That is basicaly anything that doesn't have cover. Then i shoot a full salvo at it and to hell with slitting fire. (if you read that other thread you might understand why i don't like enemies in cover). But transports are high in my list of priorities.

 

dont forget about your vehicles once you have disembarked either use them to contest (tbh im not sure if they can!) and tankshock, ramming is risky as the skimmers can dodge

obviously you know what to do with the flamestorm cannons

thats a point

flamestorm cannons and krak missiles from long fangs or speeder = instant death

 

Well, i do hope that i do know, but i'm not very experianced SW player (but WH armies are bit different mater).

 

i havent used wolf scouts but im sure they will be good for gassing out pathfinders and dark reapers im sure you know how to use them mate ;)

 

your probably best just tying down the avatar in combat a 10 man squad will keep him occupyed for what? 3 turns or just outright avoiding him!

hopefully ive given you some inspiration, in all honesty ive given myself some from looking at your list

 

thanks

wiplash

 

I think i do know how to use Scouts, but it remains to be seen if my opponent knows what they do and how he inteds to avoid them.

As for avatar, if i get a good shot at it with LFs then i will take it, but otherwise i may try to avoid it.

[wiplash]

Funny enough, for what i have seen is that this guy has Falcons with that pulse laser and eldar missiles and i think that serpents have pretty much same load out. Apparently to keep things cheap. Come to think of it, i haven't run any calculations on what he may have in his army in upgrade front. As for assaulting, should i try to keep my people inside their transports (rhinos in particular) so that they get to charge right after they disembark? Or do i do, move, disembark, shoot and charge at the next turn manouver?

 

Match is Annihilation with Dawn of war deployment. So this is night fight at the first turn and as a special rule night fight may continue to second turn at 4+ roll. So i was thinking of starting on table or possibly off table depending on if i go first or second.

 

Personaly i was planing to shoot at whatever looks like the most likely to die at once. That is basicaly anything that doesn't have cover. Then i shoot a full salvo at it and to hell with slitting fire. (if you read that other thread you might understand why i don't like enemies in cover). But transports are high in my list of priorities.

 

Well, i do hope that i do know, but i'm not very experianced SW player (but WH armies are bit different mater).

 

I think i do know how to use Scouts, but it remains to be seen if my opponent knows what they do and how he inteds to avoid them.

As for avatar, if i get a good shot at it with LFs then i will take it, but otherwise i may try to avoid it.

 

with the combination of no brightlances and DOW deployment (that means that first turn uses nighfighting right?) then you may want to pop smoke on second turn? up to you really runs a bit of risk of him pot shotting your rhinos but on the flip side it would mean that you could shoot and assault on the third as you said above^^ plus eldar have BS3 so they are more likely to miss :)

 

fair enough about shooting, up side of shooting tanks first is that you have more targets to assault or flame! If he is saving points by not buying lances then he may be spending them on holo fields (makes you roll 2 dice on damage table and choos the lowest result) so ask him before you start!

 

another thing to think about first turn is shooting the farseer first turn with missiles if he suffers 1 wound then he's dead, well maybe not first turn cos of nightfighting

 

just read the previous stuff a bit more and you were asking bout striking scorpions and infiltrate etc. They have a good armour save, and can infiltrate but it costs them 5 points so he will probably take it

but yeah they are bettar for large squads with 4 attacks each on the charge? and the exarch with 4/5? so they hit a lot but they wound on 4+ and you still get a save

your gonna suffer wounds

do your wolf scouts have upgrades? they may be able to give them a run for their money

[SJumppanen]

with the combination of no brightlances and DOW deployment (that means that first turn uses nighfighting right?) then you may want to pop smoke on second turn? up to you really runs a bit of risk of him pot shotting your rhinos but on the flip side it would mean that you could shoot and assault on the third as you said above^^ plus eldar have BS3 so they are more likely to miss :D

 

fair enough about shooting, up side of shooting tanks first is that you have more targets to assault or flame! If he is saving points by not buying lances then he may be spending them on holo fields (makes you roll 2 dice on damage table and choos the lowest result) so ask him before you start!

 

Everytime i have been playing with Eldar they have had Holofield and usualy stones too, so i think that i can expect it this time too. I think that he uses those pulse lasers to compensate poor accuracy.

 

another thing to think about first turn is shooting the farseer first turn with missiles if he suffers 1 wound then he's dead, well maybe not first turn cos of nightfighting

 

If he is seen running around alone witch i realy doubt.

 

just read the previous stuff a bit more and you were asking bout striking scorpions and infiltrate etc. They have a good armour save, and can infiltrate but it costs them 5 points so he will probably take it

but yeah they are bettar for large squads with 4 attacks each on the charge? and the exarch with 4/5? so they hit a lot but they wound on 4+ and you still get a save

your gonna suffer wounds

do your wolf scouts have upgrades? they may be able to give them a run for their money

 

I wasn't going to use Scouts on them unless he decides that Pathfinders or Reapers need a bodyguard unit. In that case Meltas and Plasma pistols will reduce his attacks. But i definitely intend to use scouts on some less choppy unit if possible.

[SJumppanen]

I just did some calculations and i think that he may have just enough points for few bright lances in his vehicles. Damn!

[SJumppanen]

Game is now over, i won. Just barely. Battle report will follow soon.

[TiguriusX]

Game is now over, i won. Just barely. Battle report will follow soon.

 

 

Congrats on the victory brother

 

SKOAL!!

[bareserker]

CONGRATULATIONS !!!!! AAAOOOWWWWHHHH!!!!

[SJumppanen]

Now that battle report:

 

Mission: Annihilation.

Deployment: Dawn of War (additional rule was that second round would be a night fight on 4+)

 

Set up: Relatively little terrain. My side had about 4 different sized wooded hills pretty evenly spread, his side had just 3 similary spread. In between was open terrain that had some features like some tank traps and stone fence, but these had almost none effect to the game.

 

Initiative: I won the roll off so he went first.

 

Deployment: He put Waweserpent (this one had Bright lance) with Dire Avengers and Farseer on board first. I kept everything off-board at begining. He placed his Infiltrators on each of those hills on his side and Scorpions did outflank.

 

1st. Eldar.

 

He brought his stuff to the table and ran his people to those same 2 hills on my right as those Pathfinders. Guardians (with EML) to the right most (about 12"x12" sized irregular shaped lump) hill to the right and behind the Pathfinders and Dark Reapers to the middle hill (middle hill was about 6"x12" or longer and set up wide side towards me) to the left of Pathfinders on that hill. Avatar lumbered in at about center board from the left side of the center hill. Falcon set him self to the right side (flat out) and Serpent floated around between right and center hills.

 

1st. SW.

 

Since he had spread his forces all aroud i decided to ignore the left side and so i played out Avatar out for the most of the game and left side Pathfinders entirely. I sent LS to flat out along right side, right next to his Falcon. LRR followed with 12" move and Rhinos stayed behind LRR and the right most hill. Long fangs ran to the 2nd. hill from the right (this was very small hill, about size of my palm) and took positions. Vindicator hid behind 3rd. hill almost directly opposite to both pathfinders ont he right and center.

Shooting: Only shooting was done by LRR and its AC against the Falcon. Nothing hapened.

 

2nd. Eldar. We failed the 4+ roll so from now on it was day time.

 

Movements: Pathfinders stayed still. Guardians ran some more to reach beter positions. Dark Reapers were satisfied with their positions. Falcon moved back IIRC 12". Wawe serpent moved bit to the front and got a line at the LRR. Avatar lumbered towards the right side.

 

Shooting: DR and Pathfinders(2x) all shot at Long fangs and killed 2 of them. I removed 2 missiles, but not at the hind sight i should have taken the squad leader as splitting fire wasn't needed or wanted. Falcon shot at the LS and failed to penterate or flat out saved me. Waweserpent shot and hit the LRR but rolled 1 for penetration (his rolls sucked bad) .

 

2nd. SW.

 

Movements: LRR moved to foward 12" and dismounted the Grey Hunters (mistake). Rhinos trailed the LRR. LS moved to the left right in front of the Pathfinders, but still staying away from the hill. Smaller Scout pack came from the reserves and directly behind the Waweserpent. Vindicator moved to the right and ahead and took positions to shoot pretty much everything from DR to Guardians.

 

Shooting:

 

LRR shot again at the Falcon and stunned it. LS shot out everything at the Pathfinders and killed 4 of them and 2 Guardians. Scouts wrecked WS and forced DA to dismount in tight pile. Long fangs shot frag missiles at the DA and scored 24 hits. Some DAs died. Vindicator shot at DRs and killed one.

 

Assaults:

 

Scouts assaulted DA and were tarpitted for the rest of the game.

 

3rd. Eldar.

 

Movements: Scorpions showed up and prepared to assault LRRs squad. Banshees decided to join, but were forced to go arounf the Falcon as it was stunned and i didn't allow him to pivot it around and the flip back around. This wasn't a problem howewer. Avatar lumberd on and on this turn it managed to run full 12".

 

Shooting:

 

Guardians managed to stun LS with Shuriken fire. Everyone else who were able, shot at GHs at the open killing some.

 

Assaults: Scouts were entangled with DAs and Farseer. Banshees and Scorpions assaulted GHs and killed them and the priest to the last man before they had a chance to hit back.

 

3rd. SW.

 

Movements: I positioned LRR so that it could flambee both Scorpions and Banshees. One Rhino dismounted its passengers to insure that anyone left from BBQ would be dealt with. Vindicator positioned itself beter. Rest of the Scouts showed up. LS was stunned.

 

Shooting:

 

Banshees go bye bye (come to think of it, my Rhino may have killed the last one), Scorpions had 3 left, then down to one after GHs shot at them. LFs caused one wound to Avatar. Scouts didn't shoot as they might have killed inapropriate DR in the process.

 

Assaults: GHs assaulted the remaining scorpion who killed one GH before dying itself. Bigger scout pack assault the DRs but i made a mistake and tied down also that DA pack so i wouldn't be flat footed if they would manage to kill the other pack. These scouts would also remain tied down for the rest of the game.

 

4th. Eldar. At this point we agree to end to this turn as there were other players coming to play next to us and their reservation was made earlier.

 

Movements: Avatar moves within 6" to LS that was stunned earlier. Falcon may have moved a bit.

 

Shooting: Avatar misses LS and everyone else again open with everything at the GHs at the open. GHs were killed down to 3.

 

Assaults: Scouts remain in CC. Avatar assaults LS that haven't moved and blows it up. Explosion kills a GH and other 2 fail morale check and fall back.

 

4th. SW. Since we had agreed that game would end to this turn i didn't need to worry about anything. Game was tied at that point so i could go head first and try for winning point.

 

Movements: LRR moves to the left past Avatar and so that it can flame at that last Pathfinder left by LS. Remaining Rhino Squad moves 12" towards Guardians and dismounts. Those 2 GHs (gh and wg actualy) remaining consolidate at the Falcon. Can't remember what Vindicator did in this turn.

 

Shooting: LRR kills the Pathfinder and some Guardians. GHs kill the remaining Guardians. Other GH squad fires at Falcon and stun and destroy a weapon, but do nothing relevant. LFs manage to do nothing to Falcon.

 

Assaults: My scouts manage to win the CC but Eldar won't break and game ends.

 

Results: I win by 2 KPs. That gives me 13-7 victory.

[TiguriusX]

Russ looked after you with that penetration roll.

 

Sounds like the LRR was your MVP

[SJumppanen]

Russ looked after you with that penetration roll.

 

Sounds like the LRR was your MVP

 

It should be! Unfortunately i tossed my GHs out too soon and they were pretty much useless. That was when i almost lost the game.

[Rokafort Stonewolf]

Mech Eldar vs anything on a table with little vehicle cover usually ends badly for the Eldar regardless of players. As someone who plays both Eldar and SW, I find the best options wolves have against Eldar are TWC, Bikes, Jump Packs, Long Fangs, and deep strikers. You need to be able to have LONG threat ranges to keep them from screwing with you. In KP games, concentrate fire on anything vulnerable - the Eldar player will try to deny this by massing all of his assets out of range/LOS of your main body of long-ranged fire. This is why deep strikers are useful - they can catch such a formation and do a lot of damage, or drive them into your guns. You have to deny Eldar vehicles anywhere to hide throughout the WHOLE game, then prevent them from tank shocking objectives (in objective games) at the end.

 

Make sure you never give Eldar a KP lead. They'll spend the whole game running away.

[antique_nova]

Eldar also tend to suffer greatly when someone uses there own tactics against them. Isolating a part of the army and taking it piece meal. However, you can never outrun the eldar or out manovuer them.

thanks

antique_nova

[MalachiOfRuss]

Shooting:

 

LRR shot again at the Falcon and stunned it. LS shot out everything at the Pathfinders and killed 4 of them and 2 Guardians. Scouts wrecked WS and forced DA to dismount in tight pile. Long fangs shot frag missiles at the DA and scored 24 hits. Some DAs died. Vindicator shot at DRs and killed one.

Were the DA that got shot by the LF the same that were in the WS? I was under the impression that units that are forced to dismount in the Shooting phase cannot be shot at since they were not disembarked at the beginning of the Shooting Phase, and all shooting is considered essentially "simultaneous." Someone confirm or deny this?

[SJumppanen]

Shooting:

 

LRR shot again at the Falcon and stunned it. LS shot out everything at the Pathfinders and killed 4 of them and 2 Guardians. Scouts wrecked WS and forced DA to dismount in tight pile. Long fangs shot frag missiles at the DA and scored 24 hits. Some DAs died. Vindicator shot at DRs and killed one.

Were the DA that got shot by the LF the same that were in the WS? I was under the impression that units that are forced to dismount in the Shooting phase cannot be shot at since they were not disembarked at the beginning of the Shooting Phase, and all shooting is considered essentially "simultaneous." Someone confirm or deny this?

 

They were! And it is allowed as soon as they dismount. Just not with the same unit that shot the transport, that shooting is considered simultaneous.

[SJumppanen]

Update on tournament: On this second round i'm facing Demon hunters and Tyranids as a secondary opponent. Secondary because we have odd number of players so somebody must play two games at once. In this secondary fight i won't get any points, just the opponent.

 

Mission is kind of special, we get KPs normaly and additionaly for controlling table corners. 1 for my own corner, 4 for opponents corner and 2 for those remaining ones.

 

Hmm. Maybe i should start a new thread...

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

I detest tailoring a list for an opponent.

 

I highly suggest you don't drop pod unless you absolutely plan on doing it en masse. Say it with me suicide units don't work and throwing points away hurts you. Now let's say you take 3 drop dreads and thake 3 squads of cheap 6 man missile long fangs and give 2 of them drop pods then yes the dreads might work.

 

However think about this Logan and bjorn. 2 squads of 6 man missile long fangs 4 packs of 5 man wolf guard each packing a cyclone. Maybe a rune priest and some sort of counter punch.

 

That alone is packing 18 missile shots a turn and with ancient tactician you can get the alpha strike off and neutralize a lot of his mobility and vehicles and even the seer council.

 

Also ignore that dreadful foot list blackmoore and bols suggest those read of a dreadful list.

 

 

However as stated psychic defense is a must as well as sticking together. Don't let the eldar lead a wolf to stray from the pack.

[SJumppanen]

I detest tailoring a list for an opponent.

 

However as stated psychic defense is a must as well as sticking together. Don't let the eldar lead a wolf to stray from the pack.

 

Ah! If you take bit time to read through the thread you notice that my list was already done and that Eldar fight is also now in the past.