Offspring possibility

[The Butcher]

greetings i was just wondering what peoples views on the possibility some of the Primarch could maybe of had children.

leman russ for instance was born into a fierce warrior culture which would have taken women as spoils of war.

so is it not possilble atleast one of the primarch could of had children.

 

sorry for the grammer :ermm:

[Logan230]

Interesting thought, I have toyed with the idea, but I figured the Primarchs just didnt think about gals. Of them all, I would expect Russ to have a gal (or more). That would certainly be interesting to say the least, but I would expect that the Imperium (more specifically the Inquisition) would keep that kind of information under wraps, imagine a clan of humans that are part primarch. One Leman Russ was destructive enough, now imagine 3 of the little buggers and the sister! <-scary thought, female Russ...

 

Ninja: spelling

[Astalon]

I suspect their genetic structure would mean it simply wouldn't work, for a space marine let a alone a primarch. You're essentially looking at different species.

[Walter Payton]

I have already examined this with Night Haunter, who led a legion of thieves, murderers and rapists. Our eventual conclusion was that whilst marines can feel sexual desire (C:SW mentions a Wolf Lord making a "casual pass" at a female daemon by accident), most do not, and procreation is impossible, although there was a reference to an old piece of fluff mentioning the Ultramarines as keeping concubines to keep Macragge's gene-pool healthy, although no source could be cited.

[Kurgan the Lurker]

That source you are looking for is WD99 which was the first Index Astartes: Ultramarines. They had the half-eldar (and former Dark Eldar) Chief Librarian in those days too.

[Korraz]

They had the half-eldar (and former Dark Eldar) Chief Librarian in those days too.

 

Wait, what?! Whats the story of this...abomination?

[Lucifer216]

If you want lots of baby primarchs running around, here's an idea I came up with a while ago...

 

Imagine a member of the Adeptus Mechanicus who studies the Genestealer threat and comes to a sudden epiphany:

 

"Surely, it must be possible to take the Genestealer genetic delivery system and change it's payload to that of say... a Primarch?"

 

In other words, you would effectively take out the genes that encode the genestealer body form and replace them with the DNA from a Primarch. So these would be the steps necessary:

 

1) Obtain genestealer ovipositior

2) Obtain Primarch DNA sample

3) Change the genetic payload of the Ovipositior so that all genestealer traits encoded are replaced with primarch traits

4) The altered ovipositior (possibly surgically implanted into the inquisitior) is used to infect someone.

5) Their offspring become 1st generation primarch/human hybrids. They then go off and infect people.

6) the cycle is repeated until the 4th generation (almost entirely human is reached), where upon their offspring are full primarchs.

 

Of course this is utterly blasphemous and does beg the question as to where you get Primarch DNA from, but hey a Rogue Inquisitor would probably see that as a challenge. Potential targets include Saguinary High Priests, the Red grail and quite properly a very very quick visit to Robute Gulliman, before running like hell from the resulting horde of very very pissed off smurfs. Aside from matters of availability, the latter is actually the best best, as the DNA from Sanguinius's blood cells has doubtless mutated down the years (aside from the black rage).

 

Still, if it was successful.... then you'd probably have a 3rd generation Sanguinius hybrid asking his mother why his wings don't work properly.

 

Importantly, the Magos Biologis wouldn't have to understand the processes by which genestealers integrate their DNA or even any of the inner workings of primarch DNA. All he has to do is work out where the mechanism stops and the actual information encoding for the genestealer phenotype starts. Then he could cut out the latter and insert the Primarch DNA.

 

Now for this to work, you would have to make pretty damn sure you got rid of every last scrap of genestealer DNA in the ovipoisitor delivery system.

Imagine how bad it would be if you were completely successful, apart from eliminating the tendancy to psychically call to the Hive fleets? Suddenly you have a large amount of Primarch DNA being used to make new Tyranids. Not pretty!

 

Incidentally I reckon that the only way you could have a system like the genestealer method of reproduction which counts through generations, would be some form of persistant DNA methylation. Telomeres are only good as a counting mechanism for somatic cells, while the modifications have to occur at the germ-line.

[spiros14]

to be honest i don't think chaos would try that anyway, with primarch chaos warlords you are potentially giving your warlord position to something you created, plus, if you use gullimans DNA he might go ultrasmurf on you and kill off your entire warband... and give you instructions on how to fight properly... and maybe make a codex chaotica for all the warbands to follow, i mean, with said primarch/human hybrid, you do not want to hear the words: he's just like his father...

[Lucifer216]

Erm..

 

I never said that it would be something that Chaos would try to do, more an extremely desperate Inquisitor in combination with a very gifted Magos Biologis. Inquisitor Kryptman is a good example. The man has shown that he will do anything if stands to help stave off the Tyranid menace. In addition, he has already successfully captured live genestealers with the aid of the deathwatch.

[spiros14]

point taken, lucifer, but anyone fighting a demi primarch will be in a world of pain :tu:

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I never said that it would be something that Chaos would try to do, more an extremely desperate Inquisitor in combination with a very gifted Magos Biologis. Inquisitor Kryptman is a good example. The man has shown that he will do anything if stands to help stave off the Tyranid menace. In addition, he has already successfully captured live genestealers with the aid of the deathwatch.

 

Kryptmann is not a Radical, not in the usual sense. Extreme ruthlessness and pragmatism =/= radicalism. A standard Puritan wouldn't have abandoned so much territory - a Radical Xanthite (for example) would have pulled out the Daemon weapons first. Kryptmann is more of a grey area than a simple Radical or Puritan. You're better off looking for another Radical faction for this kind of work, or maybe even a Thorian sub-faction. IMO, Kryptmann would know all too well the risks of it going wrong, and the ensuing consequences of that As you say:

 

Imagine how bad it would be if you were completely successful, apart from eliminating the tendancy to psychically call to the Hive fleets? Suddenly you have a large amount of Primarch DNA being used to make new Tyranids. Not pretty!

 

Tyranid-Primarchs are not something I can see Kryptmann encouraging, even if it was just a risk.

[Lucifer216]

Ah but...

 

Kryptman is convinced that basically no matter what happens, the Tyranid will win eventually and all that can be done is to slow their progress. With that sort of a mind set, there effectively is nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

In addition, he took an immense gamble when he diverted an encroaching hive fleet into the Octavian cluster, as the chances are that the Tyranids might emerge much stronger than before, thanks to the fierce combat against the Orks, the chance to gather so much highly engineered genetic material and the amount of biomass there.

 

So while, Kryptman isn't a "rawr, chaos artifacts for tha win. Lolz!" radical, I'd say he has the sort of mindset that would entertain doing something like this.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Ah but...

 

Kryptman is convinced that basically no matter what happens, the Tyranid will win eventually and all that can be done is to slow their progress. With that sort of a mind set, there effectively is nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

In addition, he took an immense gamble when he diverted an encroaching hive fleet into the Octavian cluster, as the chances are that the Tyranids might emerge much stronger than before, thanks to the fierce combat against the Orks, the chance to gather so much highly engineered genetic material and the amount of biomass there.

 

Is this in the new Tyranid Codex? I've never seen it before - much about Kryptmann's mindset is unknown, and what little we do know hasn't been elaborated on.

[Lucifer216]

The first part is Kryptman's address to a council of either Imperial big-shots or his fellow inquisitors in Xenology,

 

The second is Tyranid background from the latest and previous codexs.

[Walter Payton]

The first part is Kryptman's address to a council of either Imperial big-shots or his fellow inquisitors in Xenology,

 

Are you referring to the "There is a cancer eating at the Imperium...if it is aware of us at all, it must know us only as prey," speech? Because if you are, that was Inquisitor Czevak at the Conclave of Har.

[Lucifer216]

I'm referring to this passage from Xenology:

 

Adminstratum Krytogrameter:0008892

Inquisition classified: 00912

Kryptodestr:infosele99332

Krypto:classified:0232

 

'My brothers, do not make the mistake of thinking yourself prepared. I have stared into the face of our ruin, and it is not a face. It is a mouth. A mouth containing a billion teeth and each tooth is a living thing, and each living thing is a horror built only to kill, and when the mouth closes it shall not be to honour the Supreme Emperor, or sue for peace, or discuss terms. It shall be to swallow our Imperium whole.

 

We call them Tyranids as if they're a race; another xenos clan to be faced-down and cleansed. In the face of horror we cling to our sciences, our labels, little realising they do nothing but drown us.

 

We'd do better to call them a disease. There is no better analogy.

 

I've seen the hive ships, brothers. Barbed horrors scuttling forth to kill, bloated vermin writhing back to be absorbed, their bellies full. I've seen the forest picked clean of life. I've seen the biofleets draining the water of teeming worlds, the vortex mouth guzzling the prairies, I've seen the shadows moving in the warp, the tentacles stretching out of the darkness beyond the Eastern Rim.

 

This is the End of Times, brothers. Death approaches, and it is not at the hands of a ravening horde nor an army of contemptible aliens. Our enemy is a single intellect. A single gesalt consciousness, more ancient than we can conceive, more massive than we can measure, a single mind that has not one body, but a trillion. An all-seeing eye that has no shape and no form. How can we fight such a thing?

 

I will tell you: until the last breath.

 

If we can but delay that great maw from closing around us, then we have achieved what countless Empires, countless worlds, countless galaxies, have not.

 

I say this not to terrify you. I say it simply so you understand, simply so you do not waste your time with such luxuries as hope.

 

There is no hope. The Great Devourer is upon us.

 

Let us see how long we may restrain her jaw."

 

- Inquisitor Kryptman, addressing the Congresium Xenos, 992. M41

[Inquisitor Engel]

Are you referring to the "There is a cancer eating at the Imperium...if it is aware of us at all, it must know us only as prey," speech? Because if you are, that was Inquisitor Czevak at the Conclave of Har.

 

Who then decided the Eldar are way more interesting...

[gil galed]

I imagine that their genes are simply to removed from humans to sire children, not to mention the mechanics of it might be awkward.

 

I'd imagine it like superman, he's kinda human and super, but can't have kids.

 

I really doubt they were a-sexual though, various marines make mention of the attractiveness of humans in the HH books although note the differences, equally various humans make note of the attractiveness of unarmoured space marines, I just imagine that they repress such desires in line with their monk like warrior ethos.

 

~Gil <_<

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I'd imagine it like superman, he's kinda human and super, but can't have kids.

 

Didn't superman have a child in superman returns? :rolleyes:

 

Anyways, I think you have to ask the Emperor himself. Did he want them to be able to have children when he was making them?

[gil galed]

I'd imagine it like superman, he's kinda human and super, but can't have kids.

 

Didn't superman have a child in superman returns? B)

 

Anyways, I think you have to ask the Emperor himself. Did he want them to be able to have children when he was making them?

 

O right yeh... that is true, but hollywood films arn't generally correct applications of super heroes :woot:

 

Gil :blush:

[Octavulg]

that is true, but hollywood films arn't generally correct applications of super heroes

 

Neither are comic books. :D