Sternguard

[Titan87]

Okay, so I really like the idea of Sternguard but just can't justify taking them. With Tactical Terminators, Assault Terminators, and Dreadnoughts I just struggle taking sternguard as in place of one of those. Their comparative fragility just really hampers their usability. Sternguard are killy but that makes them a priority target, which often keeps them from doing anything meaningful, unless you want to use them with a drop pod (which often makes them a suicide unit). So can anyone give me some positives on using them properly, or what sternguard can do that the other Elites can't?

 

 

P.S.

 

I know that you can make them scoring with Kantor which adds a whole lot to them, so I'm asking if they are viable outside of a Pedro list.

[angry man]

with pedro they are acceptable, and quite strong if you team pedro and lysander together in a list with 20 podding sternies and 10 TH/SS termies

 

in a competitive scenario without pedro and lysander i would be inclined to say no, because as you already stated they take away from your precious dread and hammer termie squad slots (my favourite being 2 dreads and 1 termie squad)

 

for me, they sit in the same basket as vindicators. dangerous (and fun to use) in friendlier games, but when winning becomes more important (such as in a tourney), their weaknesses combined with the FOC slots they deprive you of makes them a less viable option

 

AM

[Jackelope King]

I actually think Pedro is a poor match for Sternguard, to be honest. Sternguard are shooty, while Pedro means they lose Combat Tactics, so they lose the ability to voluntarily fall back from combat, rally, and then rapid fire.

 

As for how to use them, even with just 4 or 5 combi-meltas and a transport, they're nasty. They're as fragile as any ohter marine, but they threaten just about everything on the board. Using them well means knowing the math-hammer on all their special ammo by heart. Rapid firing on Ork Boyz in 4+ cover: dragonfire rounds or hellfire rounds? Quick!

 

(Answer: Dragonfire rounds... removes their 50% chance to save vs increasing the number of wounds by 33%.)

 

I, for one, contend that they're poorly utilized in a Drop Pod. Yeah yeah, suicide drop in, pop a tank, maybe shoot up some Infantry. It's a waste unless you're going for a major drop with some other serious threats (I don't like Drop Pod lists, but I think there's a hybrid approach to them that's just waiting to be found). Rather, these are your trouble-shooters who should be accompanying the rest of your army as you advance. Support them with anti-transport firepower and let them come in and clean up the remainder. Sternguard love working with Dakka Preds backing them up, or with Speeders flying overhead: the vehicle opens the tank, the Sternguard clean out the bozos inside.

 

As for loadout... I don't like plasma, but I can see some validity to people who like to give them two plasma cannons per squad and have them shoot out of the top of a Rhino with them. Honestly, I'd much prefer Heavy Flamers if I were going to give them any special weapons, then a few Combi-Meltas to enable them to take out hard enemy models or vehicles that just don't want to pop.

 

They're sort of like pumped-up Tactical Squads: they actually present a credible threat to a wide variety of enemy units, but they will suffer from attrition and will die just like any other Marine if not supported properly.

[angry man]

I actually think Pedro is a poor match for Sternguard, to be honest. Sternguard are shooty, while Pedro means they lose Combat Tactics, so they lose the ability to voluntarily fall back from combat, rally, and then rapid fire.

 

As for how to use them, even with just 4 or 5 combi-meltas and a transport, they're nasty. They're as fragile as any ohter marine, but they threaten just about everything on the board. Using them well means knowing the math-hammer on all their special ammo by heart. Rapid firing on Ork Boyz in 4+ cover: dragonfire rounds or hellfire rounds? Quick!

 

(Answer: Dragonfire rounds... removes their 50% chance to save vs increasing the number of wounds by 33%.)

 

I, for one, contend that they're poorly utilized in a Drop Pod. Yeah yeah, suicide drop in, pop a tank, maybe shoot up some Infantry. It's a waste unless you're going for a major drop with some other serious threats (I don't like Drop Pod lists, but I think there's a hybrid approach to them that's just waiting to be found). Rather, these are your trouble-shooters who should be accompanying the rest of your army as you advance. Support them with anti-transport firepower and let them come in and clean up the remainder. Sternguard love working with Dakka Preds backing them up, or with Speeders flying overhead: the vehicle opens the tank, the Sternguard clean out the bozos inside.

 

As for loadout... I don't like plasma, but I can see some validity to people who like to give them two plasma cannons per squad and have them shoot out of the top of a Rhino with them. Honestly, I'd much prefer Heavy Flamers if I were going to give them any special weapons, then a few Combi-Meltas to enable them to take out hard enemy models or vehicles that just don't want to pop.

 

They're sort of like pumped-up Tactical Squads: they actually present a credible threat to a wide variety of enemy units, but they will suffer from attrition and will die just like any other Marine if not supported properly.

generally id tend to agree. but drop pods, pedro and lysander is the only way i can see me taking them over dreads. The sort of list i was thinking of was 2x10sternies in pods with whatever trimmings take your fancy. you put pedro in one squad and lysander in the other. drop them close to each other so they all get +1 attack. one squad gets bolter drill. 10 DS assault termies to assist ASAP (i realise this can be unreliable) with wahtever points left over spent on DP tac sqds, dakka preds and speeders

 

AM

[Jackelope King]

I can see that doing a lot of damage as an alpha strike, but they just don't do enough for me to justify being able to throw them away. As for taking them over dreads, this was, honestly, always my biggest concern. I have rumblings in the back of my brain as to how you can pull it off with a Master of the Forge paving the way for them to roll along in their Rhinos alongside three big Ironclads or even just bone-standard Dreads, but I haven't fit all the pieces together yet. I think Rifleman Dreads in particular I wouldn't mind taking over Dakka Predators in this sort of list, but I'd also like to have other threats advancing right with the Sternguard to give them some cover, such as TL-HF Razorbacks.

[rat of vengence]

In 1500 point games on a 6x4 table, a drop pod of sternguard can be great, especially if you have something fast or outflanking to support it. I have run a squad of 10 with a libby in a pod, and try to deploy it on a flank, usually the weaker one. The squad is decked out with a powerfist, 3 combimeltas and a heavy flamer (when I make it!) and deploy into combat squads. The combimeltas slag the tank I wanted dead, and the Libby (avenger template) serge and troops gun down whatever is the biggest threat to the squad. When deployed into cover, this squad takes some serious winkling out.

Meanwhile, while the enemy is distracted with this shooty and potentially choppy squad off to one side, the rest of my army advances or creates a firelane cutting off that flank.

 

Or so the plan goes. I wouldn't use this in an army less that 1500 points, and I don't feel it needs the special character crutch. Save your points for more troops!

 

RoV

 

speelung edut

[BrotherAtrox]

Perhaps you should field them simply because you like them?

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

put them in a list with 2-3 tac squads and you'll have a better chance. a few tac squads supported by the sterns creates a mega messy fire base that anything will have a hard time breaking. powerfist and combi meltas will discourage suicides or assaults

[angry man]

I can see that doing a lot of damage as an alpha strike, but they just don't do enough for me to justify being able to throw them away. As for taking them over dreads, this was, honestly, always my biggest concern. I have rumblings in the back of my brain as to how you can pull it off with a Master of the Forge paving the way for them to roll along in their Rhinos alongside three big Ironclads or even just bone-standard Dreads, but I haven't fit all the pieces together yet. I think Rifleman Dreads in particular I wouldn't mind taking over Dakka Predators in this sort of list, but I'd also like to have other threats advancing right with the Sternguard to give them some cover, such as TL-HF Razorbacks.

they most certainly wouldnt be being thrown away - take 3 tactical squads in pods too, then you have the 20 sternies and 10 tacts coming down turn one. you can use the pods to screen from things you dont want to deal with at the time. and backing you up is 700pts odd of dakka preds and speeder, all from turn 1. then you have anothoer 20tact marines in 2 more pods and 10 DS TH/SS termies coming down to wipe up.

 

Although i dont like not having the flexibility of rhinos, i think that dropping this much on the doorstep of your opponent is the best way to run both sternies and DPs. otherwise they are stealing your dreadnought spots (and if you take a MoTF then they are stealing your dakka pred spots and i know what id rather have) :lol:

 

AM

[FlamingDeth]

Sternguard don't have to run headlong into the enemy to be useful! Consider sticking them in terrain to defend an objective. They've got 30" range after all, and that would let you take heavy weapons in the squad and actually use them. Fun fact, 2 squads of 5 Sternguard with 2 heavy weapons in each is the same price as a full squad of 10 devastators with the same heavy weapons.

 

On a separate note, even without the special ammo and veteran statline, I would love for tacticals to have the same weapon options as sternguard. Not being able to take heavy flamers or two assault weapons make the tactical squads feel like they're missing something.

[Grey Mage]

Taking Sternguard means never having to worry about having the right gun for the job.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

A red shirt at my GW runs a 1850 list with 30 sternguard w/15 combi meltas and plasmas, pedro and 2 ironclads all in DP's amongst other things like LSS' and scouts

 

not my cup of tea, but getting that dropped on you will surely justify taking them!

[spartan249]

they most certainly wouldnt be being thrown away - take 3 tactical squads in pods too, then you have the 20 sternies and 10 tacts coming down turn one. you can use the pods to screen from things you dont want to deal with at the time. and backing you up is 700pts odd of dakka preds and speeder, all from turn 1. then you have anothoer 20tact marines in 2 more pods and 10 DS TH/SS termies coming down to wipe up.

 

Stop describing my 2k list! D:

 

You either like them for what damage they can do, or you don't because they die like tac marines. We're never going to justify a unit for you to take because we all have personal reasons for liking/disliking them. They do their job for me, so I field a lot of them. Others find that job done by other units, and it works for them.

 

Don't ask us. Play with them a few times, get acquainted with how they work in practice, then form your opinion from there.

[Hellios]

A red shirt at my GW runs a 1850 list with 30 sternguard w/15 combi meltas and plasmas, pedro and 2 ironclads all in DP's amongst other things like LSS' and scouts

 

not my cup of tea, but getting that dropped on you will surely justify taking them!

 

 

So has he got 5 elite choices? Maybe I need more sleep.

[Jackelope King]

Methinks he has a Master of the Forge somewhere behind Pedro.

[Hellios]

Methinks he has a Master of the Forge somewhere behind Pedro.

That would make sense :) I need more sleep :P

[Titan87]

First of I play at 2500 points just so everyone knows thus all the toys.

 

Don't ask us. Play with them a few times, get acquainted with how they work in practice, then form your opinion from there.

 

I actually have proxied them in a few friendly games. When I used them in Rhino's they didn't get into the action that much, and when they did get into rapid fire range they were wiped out (My Assault Terminators took care of the rest though.) I feel like when I spend that many points on a unit it should be wiping units off the board every turn or so. However when I drop podded them they were able to pop a couple of tanks, but were annihilated to a man by return shooting. I just wanted to get a sense of how you guys use them.

 

I believe that they are outclassed by Drop podding dreads for the "suicide" pod role, so I wanted to hear other player's uses of them to see if I could develop a better way to employ their unique talents.

[Koremu]

Taking Sternguard means never having to worry about having the right gun for the job.

Quoted for ever so much truth.

 

Sternguard are simply incredible. A unit in a Rhino is a credible threat to almost everything within 12" of it, if equipped correctly. They are especially good with a Librarian in the Squad. Try to keep to Cover when not in the Rhino though, because you're a tempting target to Heavy Weapons fire otherwise.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Methinks he has a Master of the Forge somewhere behind Pedro.

yeah sorry i never run builds like that, so dont know the necessitys. yeah he did say motf

 

im dying to play him with my heavy mech ultras!

[Xeonic]

...I feel like when I spend that many points on a unit it should be wiping units off the board every turn or so...

 

From a durability standpoint, a sternguard squad is just an overpriced tactical squad with some special ammos to increase their damage output. In CC they're just as effective as an assault squad, same number of attacks.

 

Yes, they're more effective at range than tacticals, or even tac terminators, but they need to be properly supported to be effective.

 

If you're looking for some uber killy massive deathmachine, sternguard aren't it. They are just veterans in power armor with shiny boltguns.

They've got ammo for range, targets with a significant cover save, targets at Toughness 4+(more saves to make is more wounds!), and finally, ammos for punching through 3+ saves in open ground. Cheap combi weapons that don't take away their ammos make them awesome, and you can swap couple of boltguns for heavy flamers for horde management, or other heavy weapons to give them a more focused role at range. 2 attacks and strong melee upgrade options for the sergeant round them out as a very strong generalist unit that can fulfill a multitude of roles. It's worth noting they are probably the most efficient way to put wounds on MCs, especially high toughness ones such as the C'Tan.

 

Because of this, sternguard are very versatile, though focused on shooting, and not everybody likes the swiss army knife units such as tacticals, tac termies, or sternguard.

Sternguard are perhaps able to vie for king of the strong generalist units in a strong generalist codex.

 

I'm not sure why anyone would ever suicide them, they're not particularly cost efficient, nor are they durable in the same way as chaos termicide or drop podded dreads.

What they are is a squad that's equal to assault marines in assault, and equal to better than tacticals or devestators at range, with unique engagement options due to their special ammos.

 

I'm not entirely sure a single squad would really be able to make a huge impact espescially in a larger game, afterall they're just veterans with shiny boltguns in normal power armor. At least...not the sort of impact that assault terminators can make.