SM drop pods and terrain

[Aubrie]

Hey all!

 

I cant seem to find a result anywhere for this, as a friend of mine and i keep going back and forth. Although i believe i'm right.

 

I'm running a new SW army against his SM army. I'm tinkering with a rune priest's tempest ability that makes all terrain within 24" of the model difficult and dangerous for all skimmers, jump, and deep striking units.

 

My SM buddy LOVES his drop pods filled with sternguard and meltas. The issue we're having is whether or not the pod and the troop inside is required to make a dangerous terrain check if landing to close to said priest.

 

My argument being, that under the SM drop pod assault entry in their dex specifically calls the unit inside the pod as deepstriking via drop pod. to me meaning the that the pod and the unit are deep striking. The benefit to the pod is simply enabling a unit that could not DS the ability to DS, and do it safely as well as place a stationary weapon on the field, but all other rules apply. Pg 95 of the small book says that all units deep striking count all difficult terrain as dangerous and must roll a check. In this case, one check is required per pod and per unit arriving in each pod.

 

His argument being. that its actually the pod that deep striking not the unit so it arrives safely. and that the rules state that when disembarking from a transport you dont take a check in dangerous terrain.

 

However there is no where that is specifically says that it protects against difficult/dangerous terrain and he is stating rules for a standard transport not for something that is deepstriking.

 

anywho thats the evidence. i'll check back shortly and see what you guys think.

[Mithril hound]

DROP PODS AVOID DIFF/DANGER TERRAIN. Please read the rules first, youve got a dex i hope?

[Grey Mage]

DROP PODS AVOID DIFF/DANGER TERRAIN. Please read the rules first, youve got a dex i hope?

NOT IF THEYRE PLACED ON THE TERRAIN AS DPS ONLY REDUCE SCATTER SO EITHER THEY GO INTO THE TERRAIN OR YOU HAVE A 24" ZONE OF SAFETY. PLEASE DONT YELL, YOU COME OFF AS VERY RUDE.

 

That being said, check the DA FAQ- a unit deploying via DP is in fact Deep Striking, so are affected by such things. Its an odd place to put it, but the rules are identical in either case.

[Mithril hound]

Sorry, i just assumed that no one would choose to deepstrike into a 'danger-zone'.

[Aubrie]

Thank u Mage thats exactly what i was looking for. :]

[Frostfang]

I disagree with Grey Mage and agree with your friend, Aubrie.

 

I would play it as a dangerous test for the drop pod only, meaning a weapon destroyed result on a 1, since the pod is already immobilised. I totally agree with the logic that the Marines inside are safe from the weather effects of the Tempest's Wrath.

[antique_nova]

Looking at what Grey Mage said. Does that mean the drop pod can't pod with 24 inches of the priest? I may need to check the drop pod entry when i get home again.

EDIT: Just remembered, that the pod only reduces scatter distance it is lands on a impasssible terrain. Also, someone told me that if i drop pod scatters of the board ( the SW one ). It reduces the scatter distance required to be on the edge of the board. I am not quite clear on this and my head isn't working properly today.

thanks

antique_nova

[stinkenheim]

the drop pods only reduces scatter to avoid landing on impassible terrain or enemy units. theres nothing in the rules about the avoiding going off table or avoiding all terrain.

 

C:SW FAQ

 

Q. The description of the Rune Priest psychic power Tempest’s Wrath states that some units within of 24" of the Rune Priest treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous terrain. According to the rulebook, disembarking is not subject to difficult and dangerous terrain effects. So can we assume a unit disembarking from a transport vehicle into cover whilst within of 24" of the Rune Priest wouldn’t have to take a test for dangerous terrain?

 

A. Correct, but remember that the Tempest’s Wrath may affect them later that turn.

 

so going by the FAQ the pod will have to take a dangerous terrain test, the unit that disembarks does not. if they then run in the shooting phase they have to test. basically its not designed to prevent drop podding units but teleporting or jump packing troops.

 

 

+EDIT+

the drop pod is deepstriking, the unit within is then disembaking from a transport. the unit inside isn't deepstriking as such, and the DA FAQ is referring to whether their units can assault from a drop pod as there is no restriction in their rules. the asnwer was no, as the count as deepstriking.

its similar to planetstrike, can a drop podding unit assaul- no because they aren't deepstriking the pod is. there needs to be parity on all issues with drop pods. either the unit is deepstriking, in which case in planetstrike games for instance they can assault or only the drop pod counts as deepstriking in which case the unit is unaffected by tempests wrath/dangerous terrain when it disembarks and they are unable to assault in planetstrike games. can't have it both ways.

[Frostfang]

the drop pods only reduces scatter to avoid landing on impassible terrain or enemy units. theres nothing in the rules about the avoiding going off table or avoiding all terrain.

 

C:SW FAQ

 

Q. The description of the Rune Priest psychic power Tempest’s Wrath states that some units within of 24" of the Rune Priest treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous terrain. According to the rulebook, disembarking is not subject to difficult and dangerous terrain effects. So can we assume a unit disembarking from a transport vehicle into cover whilst within of 24" of the Rune Priest wouldn’t have to take a test for dangerous terrain?

 

A. Correct, but remember that the Tempest’s Wrath may affect them later that turn.

 

so going by the FAQ the pod will have to take a dangerous terrain test, the unit that disembarks does not. if they then run in the shooting phase they have to test. basically its not designed to prevent drop podding units but teleporting or jump packing troops.

 

 

+EDIT+

the drop pod is deepstriking, the unit within is then disembaking from a transport. the unit inside isn't deepstriking as such, and the DA FAQ is referring to whether their units can assault from a drop pod as there is no restriction in their rules. the asnwer was no, as the count as deepstriking.

its similar to planetstrike, can a drop podding unit assaul- no because they aren't deepstriking the pod is. there needs to be parity on all issues with drop pods. either the unit is deepstriking, in which case in planetstrike games for instance they can assault or only the drop pod counts as deepstriking in which case the unit is unaffected by tempests wrath/dangerous terrain when it disembarks and they are unable to assault in planetstrike games. can't have it both ways.

 

Drop Pod entry for SM and SW clearly states that troops deep striking via drop pod can't assault the turn it arrives, so that solves your edit paragraph (under Drop Pod Assault Special Rule).

[stinkenheim]

and planetstrike says any units able to deepstrike can assault the turn they arive :)

i know in normal games they can't assault but planetsrike, like cities of death, incorporates changes to the core rules

[Frostfang]

and planetstrike says any units able to deepstrike can assault the turn they arive :P

i know in normal games they can't assault but planetsrike, like cities of death, incorporates changes to the core rules

 

Yes, but they don't supercede special rules in Codexes, I'd say. I would very strongly argue against it if anyone tried to use it against me :)

[Iacton Qruze]

and planetstrike says any units able to deepstrike can assault the turn they arive :)

i know in normal games they can't assault but planetsrike, like cities of death, incorporates changes to the core rules

 

Yes, but they don't supercede special rules in Codexes, I'd say. I would very strongly argue against it if anyone tried to use it against me :tu:

 

But the whole point of those rules laid down in books like Planetstrike, is that the games (when using that book) are played with some alternate rules that supersede certain "normal" rules of play.

[Sulfurious]

So does this entry in the Main Rulebook FAQ help at all?

 

Q. If models disembark from a transport into dangerous terrain, do they take a dangerous terrain test? Unlike Pile-in or Consolidation moves, disembarking does not specifically states that it doesn't trigger dangerous terrain tests.

 

A. Dangerous terrain says you test for every model that has 'entered, left or moved through' the terrain. As there is no exception in the text, disembarking models do have to test. However, if they disembark at the beginning of their move and then move after the disembarkation, only one test is needed, not two.

[Grey Mage]

FAQ Codex DA pg. 2:

 

Q.Can troops disembarking from a Dark Angels Drop Pod assault the turn it lands? Unlike the Space Marines and Black Templars codexes, it does not state you cannot.

A. No the embarked troops can't assault, as they have deployed via deep strike that turn and troops that deep strike can't assault.

 

That seems pretty clear to me eh? Since its a deep striking transport, the rules for other deep striking transports *unless explicity stated otherwise* should be following the same rules- this includes our DPs, those found in other marine codices, and *probably* mycetic spores.

 

The SW FAQ states that because the main rulebook doesnt force a test when you disembark that the unit doesnt take one, this FAQ clearly shows they are considered to be deep striking. Thus, they must take a test when disembarking from a drop pod.

 

Planetstrike doesnt override our rules for our DPs. Its another case of Codex>BRB.

[stinkenheim]

the question in the DA faq is because there is no mention of them not being able to assault he turn they arrive (as there is in C:SM and SW) and as the drop pod is open topped it is a fair interpretation that unless specifically mentioned it would follow all the normal rules for open topped vehicles. in this case that they should be allowed to assault after disembarking.

the faq merely points out that the unit has deepstrike.

 

i would follow the rules laid out in the BRB and in our own faq with regards to dangerou terrain, the unit that disembarks from a vehicle does not need to test.

 

no unit is usually allowed to assault after deepstriking, the BRB is pretty clear on this. as the droppod is an open topped vehicle and the unit within is not deepstriking as such (they dont have the rule threfore they can't) people would have been assaulting left right and centre without a specific mention in the rules that they were unable to. it is only the drop pod that has deepstruck, the unit inside merely hitched a ride and then disembarked upon landing. Im not trying to nit-pick but the rules are pretty clear about how disembarking units interact with dangerous terrain.

 

+edit+

 

the two FAQs contradict each other. going by our codex, and as codex usually supercedes rulebook the answer is no. if you go by the rulebook then yes. easiest way is to dice off until such a time as GW read the stuff they have already written :lol:

 

SW FAQ

Q. The description of the Rune Priest psychic power Tempest’s Wrath states that some units within of 24" of the Rune Priest treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous terrain. According to the rulebook, disembarking is not subject to difficult and dangerous terrain effects. So can we assume a unit disembarking from a transport vehicle into cover whilst within of 24" of the Rune Priest wouldn’t have to take a test for dangerous terrain?

 

A. Correct, but remember that the Tempest’s Wrath may affect them later that turn.

 

 

 

Rulebook FAQ

Q. If models disembark from a transport into dangerous terrain, do they take a dangerous terrain test? Unlike Pile-in or Consolidation moves, disembarking does not specifically states that it doesn't trigger dangerous terrain tests.

 

A. Dangerous terrain says you test for every model that has 'entered, left or moved through' the terrain. As there is no exception in the text, disembarking models do have to test. However, if they disembark at the beginning of their move and then move after the disembarkation, only one test is needed, not two.

[Grey Mage]

The only contradiction I find is with the core rulebook FAQ- our FAQ and the DA FAQ dont conflict at all.

 

*sighs* Another mess. We need to get someone to housetrain the pups at GW.

[Tograth]

the problem was that the old FAQ said you didnt test when you disembarked, and the SW FAQ was written with that one in mind.

 

the new FAQ states that you do test, which would mean that tempests wrath affects units in deep striking transports, as the premise of the ruling in the sw faq is opposite, then the ruling is also opposite.

[Taeken]

Yup I am throughly confused now. I thought (until now) that models disembarking from a drop pod did not make a terrain check. If they moved, then yes. Bah! so confusing!

 

Now I need to go home and have some of my mead.

[Aubrie]

thanks all for the feed back. I'm going to go stricktly by how i'm reading the codex in that the Unit arrives by deepstriking via pod and therefore the pod and the unit inside are going to take the terrain check.

 

I'm thoroughly confused myself by it but until a faw or errata comes out that specifically says otherwise, thats what we (my game group) will go by. the facts that are given seem to out weigh the defense :P

 

as for mead... don't have any myself some sort of alcoholic beverage sounds good about now:]

[Sulfurious]

So should we apply the same rule that since Codex supersedes rulebook that the SW FAQ supersedes the Rulebook FAQ?

 

After a little research, I found that this ruling already existed in the rulebook FAQ before the SW codex was released. So one might argue that we should use the newest ruling in the SW FAQ?

[Grey Mage]

Well we could say none of them matter, since supposedly all FAQs are house rules.

[Wulfen00]

As far as I know the dangerous terrain check only makes a vehicle Imobilised, not weapon destroyed so since a drop pod can't move there is no need for a dangerous terrain check on the pod. Also as noted disembarking does not require a dangerous terrain check and at most the DP unit can run, which difficult terrain doesn't matter.

[Grey Mage]

Actually what it says is it suffers an immediate immobilized result... wich is also what the DP does when it lands, so it would be technically a second immobilization, destroying the weapon.

[Xeenos]

not 100% here.. but sure, id think the Drop Pod itself counts as deep striking so it would take the effect of Tempests Wrath, but so long as the troops getting out of it arnt jump troops or skimmers, they arnt effected by the spell. It would also make sence in a sort of realisem way.. The strong winds are supposed to make it a danger to fly, the Pod comes in and lands, its not doing anything graceful, so isnt overly effected by the winds, though i suppose it can lose its weapon, the troops comming out of it wouldnt be bothered anymore then troops getting out of a Rhino. Scouts getting out of a Land Speeder Storm dont have to test do they?