IA: Lions of Caliban

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

How can you say "I don't find that the Marines would look at eating the flesh of the enemys in a good way," considering that part of the geneseed is made to do just that?

 

When the Space Marines were first created they had no enemies like the ones faced today that have been tainted by chaos.

 

Also just because you can doesn't mean you should. I could go and strap some hastily fashioned wooden wings to my arms and jump off a cliff. I mean, the wings were made with the express purpose of helping me fly, so why shouldn't I go ahead and jump?

 

Terrible analogies aside I think it would be fairly obvious to even the thickest of space marines that eating the flesh of something tainted by a malicious warp entity is not a good idea. What I really want to see is a good enough reason for someone to chuck this very sensible bit of common sense out the window.

[Ecritter]

It's coming, any comments on what's posted so far?

 

As to whether the tainted existed before, it there were no Chaos gods and tainted ... there would have been no heresy. Chaos is not a new invention in the WH40k universe.

[Ecritter]

More edits and additions added. The basis of the chapter's transformtion should be coming clear now.

[Marshal Rohr]

Someone has been playing a little too much Dragon Age...

[Ecritter]

Someone has been playing a little too much Dragon Age...

 

I've never played it ... so you're have to explain your reference please.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

As to whether the tainted existed before, it there were no Chaos gods and tainted ... there would have been no heresy. Chaos is not a new invention in the WH40k universe.

 

I never said chaos didn't exist earlier than the Imperium. What I meant was that the Emperor and whoever helped him create the first Space Marines had in all likelyhood not encountered anything anywhere near like the Chaos Legions as we know them in modern 40k.

 

Chaos would not have been anywhere near as powerful as they became during the Heresy with the sudden explosion of followers inside the Imperium.

 

In any case I think the ability for a marine to gain genetic knowledge from eating part of a creatures flesh is probably the single weakest ability the original creators of the Space Marines gave them. It's far too esoteric an ability in a time of relatively advanced technology. It is the one single most forgettable ability they have, since it hasn't even entered my mind that they possess it since, oh since I started playing 40k and the moment you created this thread.

 

The only chapters I can really see doing this are the Space Wolves and the Flesh Tearers. The Wolves because it is part of their culture to be barbarian-like and also have the wulfen gene to help them resist the taint of chaos. The Flesh Tearers because they are bat:cuss crazy and pretty much lost to the Red Thirst.

 

I don't know about what other people think, I just know I find the whole concept rather dubious and if you're going to bring me around you had better do a damn good job of writing it out to explain and justify it. That said, you're not here to please me specifically so if you think it works and you really want to do it then great, all I'm saying is that for me in particular it's going to be a hard sell.

 

The idea has potential and I really wish you the best of luck in trying to make it a reality.

[Ecritter]

"This implant allows a Space Marine to 'learn by eating'. It is situated in the spinal cord but is actually part of the brain. Four nerve bundles are implanted connecting the spine and the stomach wall. Able to 'read' or absorb genetic material consumed by the marine, the omophagea transmits the gained information to the Marine's brain as a set of memories or experiences. It is the presence of this organ which has lead to the various flesh-eating and blood-drinking rituals for which the Astartes are famous, as well as giving names to chapters such as the Blood Drinkers and Flesh Tearers. Over time, mutations in this implant have given some chapters unnatural craving for blood or flesh."

 

SM chapters are famous for this, several well known chapters revel in it .... seems its just that you haven't considered it before. It is a standard part, "for which the Astartes are famous" for, of WH40k. That part of my IA is not the part that is in question. Some of the rituals I've yet to post are the questionable parts. As far as anyone outside the chapter is concerned, what they do is a natural part of being a SM.

[Ecritter]

Bump to move back to page 1.

 

Completed first draft will be up later (much later) tonite.

[Ecritter]

First Draft complete and ready for review, C&C welcome.

[Ace Debonair]

Ask and ye shall recieve....eventually. :lol:

 

Well, that seems alright, more or less. You mention use of 'furies' before explaining what 'furies' are, though. I had a minute or so of head-scratching before I realised I hadn't missed anything. :P

 

In all honesty, I have to say I think the flesh-eating is too toned down for it to be shocking. Especially given the points you've made about it being standard practice.

 

I also see that you've axed the eating of chaotic materials, or at least I think you have.

So, what's the chapter's 'hook' now? Right now you have a load of stuff about nearly-heretical, and then...no evidence of nearly heretical acts.

 

Keep at it, though. I sense potential in this one.

[Ecritter]

Thanks for your comments. I've looked over alot of other IAs and guides to put this one together. I hope it finds more welcome responses then my first chapter.

 

Well, that seems alright, more or less. You mention use of 'furies' before explaining what 'furies' are, though. I had a minute or so of head-scratching before I realised I hadn't missed anything. :lol:

 

I saw that too, just couldn't come up with a better way to organize it. Added renaming to Furies in Origins .. so at least people will know its the first company by the time they get to that point.

 

In all honesty, I have to say I think the flesh-eating is too toned down for it to be shocking. Especially given the points you've made about it being standard practice.

 

I decided to keep most (excluding the Harvest) to be more behind the scenes during rituals like the ritual of Oneness. Right now they are more inline with Blood Drinker and Fleshtearer chapters .... and it says that other chapters refuse to be around them. Is that enough for now, or should I make them more gruesome from the start.

 

I also see that you've axed the eating of chaotic materials, or at least I think you have.

So, what's the chapter's 'hook' now? Right now you have a load of stuff about nearly-heretical, and then...no evidence of nearly heretical acts.

 

During the Harvest they'd still eat that, I just never made a statement about separating the two. I'm also considering adding a sidebar about at least one occassion where the dead of fallen marines from others chapters were eaten as well (which was one of my original ideas).

[Ace Debonair]

During the Harvest they'd still eat that, I just never made a statement about separating the two. I'm also considering adding a sidebar about at least one occassion where the dead of fallen marines from others chapters were eaten as well (which was one of my original ideas).

 

Ah, that's a better idea than the eating-chaos-folks altogether. Try not to eat too many chapters of legend, though, or blood angels successors, or space wolves, or anyone else that would give you info on things the chapter shouldn't have.

[Ecritter]

Okay I need help. I have and idea for a sidebar, but I have to keep it short and include the Templars munching on either another chapter or IG dead.

 

The Doton Incident

 

- Dead world, eastern fringe

- Overrun by nids

- Templars either with another chapter or IG in a hard won battle

- Marine in blood-lust munching on a friendly dead

- Not looked on favorably by other side (chapter or IG)

- Appologies all around

 

Just not sure how to write it up.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Okay I need help. I have and idea for a sidebar, but I have to keep it short and include the Templars munching on either another chapter or IG dead.

 

The Doton Incident

 

- Dead world, eastern fringe

- Overrun by nids

- Templars either with another chapter or IG in a hard won battle

- Marine in blood-lust munching on a friendly dead

- Not looked on favorably by other side (chapter or IG)

- Appologies all around

 

Just not sure how to write it up.

 

I'd say use the Guard, but don't make it apologetic.. You could, if you need a bit of extra "oopmh", have the 'erase' the Guard Regiment after the discover their behaviour; then they have a dark secret.

[Ecritter]

Destroying an entire IG regiment, or at least part? I'd not considered that.

 

+++++++++++++++++++++

 

After due consideration, I think you're right. But I'll stick to a couple squads of IG .... the only ones that were close and would be able to tell the tale.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Destroying an entire IG regiment, or at least part? I'd not considered that.

 

+++++++++++++++++++++

 

After due consideration, I think you're right. But I'll stick to a couple squads of IG .... the only ones that were close and would be able to tell the tale.

 

I'd suggest making it a depleted regiment, in that case, as wounds from an Astartes are hard to disguise.

 

Even were there bolter wounds, from command level officers there would be questions.

[Ecritter]

Excellent catch.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Excellent catch.

 

I'm good for some things ;)

[Ecritter]

Excellent catch.

 

I'm good for some things ;)

 

You're good for a lot of things I'm sure. You have very interesting ideas, and that's what makes the world go around.

 

Any comments on the IA overall?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

You mention "Crusaders" in the Combat Doctrine without explaining what they are until later.

 

"Furies" sound like Death Company to me, at odds with the Dark Angel ties.

 

I think you should mention Scouts as veterans, a la Wolf Scouts.

 

"The Ritual of Oneness" - you could make out as if the practice is still used by certain elements, Veterans unwilling to sunder the Chapters legacy.

 

As I noted from the off, I disagree with the use of Dark Angel geneseed but thats by the by.

 

Battlecry - Make it an ululating barrage of noise, its far more creepy and threatening.

[Wolfbiter]

I'm confused...is the 'Gathering' the same as, or different from 'the Harvest?' I wasn't clear from the most recent draft. And is it limited solely to prisoners/enemies, or do the Marines just attack people at random? It sounds more like it's directed at captured enemies in your text; but your sidebar makes it seem like random captives are taken and eaten. At least that's how I read it.

 

Here's something else I'm confused about: You mentioned that other, more 'civilized' chapters see the eating of a foe's flesh as barbaric and savage. OK, that makes sense. But: Why do none of the other Unforgiven chapters intervene if the Templars Secundus are drawing all this unwelcome attention? For that matter, why isn't anyone else calling the Chapter to task? It's well-established that a primary mission of the Dark Angels and their successors is keeping the secret of their hunt for the Fallen. If other Chapters start complaining to the Imperium, 'Hey, these guys are going around eating people left and right!" somebody's going to get upset. If they piece together that the Chapter's Marines are getting more psychotic as this practice continues, aren't the other Unforgiven going to get worried that this deviant behavior is going to come back and lead to unwelcome investigations of their behavior as well? "Hmmm...these guys came from your geneseed, and they've been eating folks left and right! What are YOU hiding?" See what I mean?

 

This is why I raised concerns initially about using Dark Angels geneseed...the Dark Angels not only have a much closer relation with their successors than other Chapters, but also have a really strong reason not to let this kind of behavior go on. And they have at least 4-6 other Chapters they could call on in a pinch to pressure the Templars to knock this stuff off.

 

Also, in the White Dwarf Index Astartes article on renegade Space Marine chapters, the Sons of Malice were excommunicated and attacked by the Sisters of Battle when it was discovered they engaged in cannibalism. It seems to me your Marines would need to be a LOT more secretive in order to keep this practice going. Eating foes wholesale in front of others seems like an invitation to being attacked, especially if anyone compares them to the Sons of Malice.

 

I'm still interested in the basic concept you have going, but I really think you need to either explain more fully how the rest of the Imperium is reacting to this behavior if it's public; or (my suggestion) make it a heck of a lot more secretive. In fact, making the ritual eating more secretive can explain why the other Unforgiven haven't reacted...they can't if they don't know about it.

 

Last, while I kind of see where you are going with the 'Ritual of Oneness' I think it sounds too similar to the Blood Angels and their Red Grail, mixing their blood with the Primarch's and sharing it with new marines. Your Marines are already similar to the Black Templars (Name and symbol), the Dark Angels (origins and geneseed), adding Blood Angels-esque rituals may be too much of a mix of different Chapters.

[Octavulg]

Marked by a savage brutality, the great crusade of the Templars Secundus moves throughout the Imperium not only battling its enemies but gathering knowledge in all its forms. It can be said that in its search for knowledge, the Templars walk a very thin line between learning and heresy. Only with the passage of time will their judgment be found.

 

Why would they be a crusading chapter (or be named Templars)? That's rather un-Dark Angel, who for all their knightliness seem fairly secular.

 

From the honored ranks of the Angels of Absolution and carrying the geneseed of the legendary Lion El'Jonson, a new Chapter of stalwart marines was formed in the 3rd founding in response to great losses during the 1st Black Crusade. Their mission, to not just hold the line against the spreading chaos but to put an end to it entirely. So was born the Templars Secundus Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

Who charged them with this mission? The scope of it seems ridiculously large - twenty-odd Chapters are dedicated to containing Chaos as part of the Astartes Praeses - defeating it would be a rather large job. Furthermore, it would seem to overlap hugely with the mission of the Grey Knights, making their existence redundant.

 

Commander Casius, Supreme Grand Master of the new chapter, immediately sent his fleet to battle dark forces. Casius' poor planning and inexperience nearly lost the Templars on their first campaign. As it was, a full third of the fleet and nearly half the marines perished and the Templars were forced to fall back and regroup. Accepting the blame fully, Casius vowed that never again would a Templar fall because of poor planning and bad intelligence.

 

Casius would be an experienced Captain of the Angels of Absolution. Surely he would not be that foolish.

 

And so the path was set for the chapter. Small forces of scouts would always act as a vanguard and probe areas, interrogating the locals before the main chapter forces entered the field to deal the killing blow. The information gathered by these scout units would save many marines and provide the much needed intelligence to ensure victory. This setup served the Templars for thousands of years, probe, interrogate, and then attack in force.

 

Er...reconaissance what Scouts are for. Why would the Chapter not already do that?

 

Furthermore, interrogation is notoriously unreliable (though the Imperium might not agree with that) and carries a pronounced risk of detection.

 

Over time, due either to ingenuity or necessity, scouts began to gather the information utilizing the Omophagea implant instead. Although the practice was frowned upon, it was recognized that gathering information in this way was more efficient and the practice not only continued but flourished within the scout units. In small step over the centuries, the practice has been modified and grown to not only encompass the ‘Gathering’, as these scout missions were called, and how information is passed on to superiors, but into the chapter wide 'Ritual of Oneness.'

 

Why, then, would they be so foolish as to eat anything tainted by Chaos? If they do this not for some ritualistic reason but for practical ones, eating Chaos Space Marines simply doesn't make sense - the risks outweight the benefits. Even if they start to attach ritual symbolism to eating such things - eating things tainted by Chaos is still so obviously insane that it doesn't make much sense.

 

You need a very, very good justification for them doing this.

 

At first, it was a rarity. One or two brothers would be overcome by the blood-lust, but as the centuries passed it has become much more prevalent. This, as much as anything else, has added to the chapter’s reputation of savage brutality in combat. So slowly the change occurred that it has yet to send up any red flags or cause undue concern within the Administratum. The chapter’s first company was renamed to 'Furies', reorganized and rearmed to take advantage of this blood-lust.

 

Too Death-Company-y. How about some other facets of Chaos corruption? Are they riven by disease? Do they manifest sorcerous powers? Are they all a bunch of sybarites?

 

The Inner Circle is renamed the Priory. In all other ways it mirrors the Inner Circle of the Dark Angels.

 

Renaming is not interesting of itself. If there aren't any particular quirks to a renamed organization, it makes a lot more sense to leave the name the same - there isn't much point presenting the reader with something that doesn't actually matter that much.

 

The 1st Company is home to the ‘Furies’, those marines that either no longer desire, or no longer have the ability, to hold back the blood-lust in battle. Utilizing Terminator armor and close combat weapons exclusively, they tear holes in enemy formations for the rest of the chapter to follow. They remain with the ‘Furies’ till death in battle takes them.

 

They give the Terminator armor to the crazies? Why?

 

Much like the Angels of Absolution, their parent chapter, the Templars covet knowledge above all else. Verging on heresy, knowledge is everything to them, and sharing it amongst the others in the chapter is the highest order.

 

Er...the Angels of Absolution don't covet knowledge above all else. At least, not according to the DA Codex I read...

 

Also like the Angels of Absolution, the Templars believe themselves to be pure from the taint of the 'Fallen'. They see these fallen Dark Angels as no more then any other Chaos Marine and treat them as such. Out of respect for their Dark Angel fore bearers, the Templars maintain the secret of the 'Fallen'.

 

See, that I remember.

 

However, I feel obligated to point out that the Fallen are an obvious avenue to allow Chaos corruption into the Chapter that you seem to be passing up. Dark Angels being dumb enough to eat Chaos Marines? No. Dark Angels eating the Fallen to demonstrate their symbolic forgiveness and reabsorption into the Chapter? That rings a lot more plausible, IMO. Especially if they already have some kind of eating rituals in place.

 

Perhaps it would make more sense for the Scouts to start eating enemies. The marines thus get used to eating enemies. Then, when marines die, they start being ceremonially eaten (perhaps by the members of the fallen brother's company or something). Then, the Chapter captures and redeems its first Fallen. Obviously, he cannot live, but he has repented and returned to the bosom of the Dark Angels. And so out come the knives and forks...

 

Also, if you're not going to do anything with the Fallen, why are you even using Dark Angels? Really. It's basically their defining characteristic.

 

It is common practice for Templars to fall upon the dead after a battle and eat their hearts. Unlike chapters like the Fleshtearers, Templars do this to gain knowledge of the enemy. When faced with the visage of Templars, fresh blood running down their faces and covering their hands, other more 'civilized' chapters simply see this as barbaric and savage.

 

As others have said, this wouldn't fly well with Imperials. Waaaaaaay too Chaosy.

 

During the 'Gathering' it was was common practice for each scout to donate a small amount of blood to a communal cup. Each scout and their Sergeant would drink from the cup to share the information learned amongst the squad. In modern practice this ritual has been expanded.

 

Good touch. I still think you'd be better off using the Fallen as an avenue for corruption, though - eating Chaos Marines just feels too obviously dangerous too do. Whereas a redeemed Fallen is not only purified, he's technically a brother. He must be OK...

 

The geneseed of Lion El'Jonson, by way of the Angels of Absolution, was used to create the Templars Secundus. All the geneseed are pure and functioning properly. Tests within the chapter have determined that the blood-lust is not a part of the geneseed but caused by a yet undetermined source.

 

I think you'd be better off with some unexplained geneseed degradation. This is a wonderful opportunity to show the clear damage these practices are doing to the Chapter without their knowledge.

 

* * *

 

Not bad, but the justification for how it all comes about is weak at the moment. Obviously I'm a fan of my own ideas on how to work on that, but it needs some shoring up regardless.

 

Wolfbiter's critiques are good one. And trust me: he's an expert on organizations that eat people. ^_^

[Ecritter]

First I'd like to thank everyone that read the IA and commented on it. I'll try to keep this in IA order to avoid confusion

 

NAME/INTRODUCTION

 

Why would they be a crusading chapter (or be named Templars)? That's rather un-Dark Angel, who for all their knightliness seem fairly secular.

 

From what I read of the AoA, they are both fleet-based and crusading. As for Templars, its primarily personal preference. Also, Casius is a learned man and would be well aware of the legend of the Knights Templar … the fact that other Templar chapters exists speak to their lasting legend.

 

ORIGINS

 

Who charged them with this mission? The scope of it seems ridiculously large - twenty-odd Chapters are dedicated to containing Chaos as part of the Astartes Praeses - defeating it would be a rather large job. Furthermore, it would seem to overlap hugely with the mission of the Grey Knights, making their existence redundant.

 

Point taken. I'll limit their mission, at least early on.

 

Casius would be an experienced Captain of the Angels of Absolution. Surely he would not be that foolish.

 

Ah, but Casius was overconfident. Even the best of us make mistakes, it takes a real leader to learn from them.

 

Er...reconaissance what Scouts are for. Why would the Chapter not already do that?

 

Furthermore, interrogation is notoriously unreliable (though the Imperium might not agree with that) and carries a pronounced risk of detection.

 

If other chapters use scouts in this way, I've not seen it. I'll have to do some looking around, unless you can point me in the right direction.

 

And I agree on the interrogation …. and it seems the scouts found a more reliable way in the end. That's where all the trouble began.

 

HOMEWORLD/RECRUITING

 

No problems, I'm surprised.

 

COMBAT DOCTRINE

 

You mention "Crusaders" in the Combat Doctrine without explaining what they are until later.

 

I'll move Organization before Combat Doctrine, that will fix that.

 

"Furies" sound like Death Company to me, at odds with the Dark Angel ties.

 

Too Death-Company-y. How about some other facets of Chaos corruption? Are they riven by disease? Do they manifest sorcerous powers? Are they all a bunch of sybarites?

 

They are and they aren't. The Furies are there more or less by choice. Right now the Blood-lust rage is the only corruption that has appeared. More will come later of course.

 

ORGANIZATION

 

I think you should mention Scouts as veterans, a la Wolf Scouts.

 

I have to admit that I'm not that familiar with that chapter. I will be explaining the scouts more in future drafts.

 

Renaming is not interesting of itself. If there aren't any particular quirks to a renamed organization, it makes a lot more sense to leave the name the same - there isn't much point presenting the reader with something that doesn't actually matter that much.

 

Priory is there as part of the Templar myth. And according to your guide, if I change something I have to tell about it. I agree its not much of a change, I did limit it to a very short blerb for that reason.

 

They give the Terminator armor to the crazies? Why?

 

They're not crazies, they're just really angry. Right now the chapter is just best using a condition they neither completely understand nor can control to benefit them, and it seems to be working well for them. Yes this is a very bad idea, and I'm sure the chapter will suffer for it. That's all part of the fun.

 

BELIEFS

 

I'll be expanding parts of this section and possibly losing other parts.

 

Er...the Angels of Absolution don't covet knowledge above all else. At least, not according to the DA Codex I read...

 

Poor choice of words on my part, will be change in future drafts.

 

See, that I remember.

 

However, I feel obligated to point out that the Fallen are an obvious avenue to allow Chaos corruption into the Chapter that you seem to be passing up. Dark Angels being dumb enough to eat Chaos Marines? No. Dark Angels eating the Fallen to demonstrate their symbolic forgiveness and reabsorption into the Chapter? That rings a lot more plausible, IMO. Especially if they already have some kind of eating rituals in place.

 

I've considered that, and I'll be reworking part and may be including it.

 

"The Ritual of Oneness" - you could make out as if the practice is still used by certain elements, Veterans unwilling to sunder the Chapters legacy.

 

Not real sure as to what you mean, but I'll be reworking it … so it may not be an issue when done in next draft.

 

Last, while I kind of see where you are going with the 'Ritual of Oneness' I think it sounds too similar to the Blood Angels and their Red Grail, mixing their blood with the Primarch's and sharing it with new marines. Your Marines are already similar to the Black Templars (Name and symbol), the Dark Angels (origins and geneseed), adding Blood Angels-esque rituals may be too much of a mix of different Chapters.

 

You could say the Dark Angels are similar to the Blood Angels, cause they both use Angels .. but I see what you mean. Right now its only coincidence that the Templars looks like so many others, but its a small universe … has to happen sometime.

 

Why, then, would they be so foolish as to eat anything tainted by Chaos? If they do this not for some ritualistic reason but for practical ones, eating Chaos Space Marines simply doesn't make sense - the risks outweight the benefits. Even if they start to attach ritual symbolism to eating such things - eating things tainted by Chaos is still so obviously insane that it doesn't make much sense.

 

I'll be expanding and more fully explaining those parts in future draft.

 

I'm confused...is the 'Gathering' the same as, or different from 'the Harvest?' I wasn't clear from the most recent draft. And is it limited solely to prisoners/enemies, or do the Marines just attack people at random? It sounds more like it's directed at captured enemies in your text; but your sidebar makes it seem like random captives are taken and eaten. At least that's how I read it.

 

The Harvest as written will be gone in next draft. The Gathering will be renamed to Harvest as it was originally. I'll also be adding more to explain it more fully.

 

Here's something else I'm confused about: You mentioned that other, more 'civilized' chapters see the eating of a foe's flesh as barbaric and savage. OK, that makes sense. But: Why do none of the other Unforgiven chapters intervene if the Templars Secundus are drawing all this unwelcome attention? For that matter, why isn't anyone else calling the Chapter to task? It's well-established that a primary mission of the Dark Angels and their successors is keeping the secret of their hunt for the Fallen. If other Chapters start complaining to the Imperium, 'Hey, these guys are going around eating people left and right!" somebody's going to get upset. If they piece together that the Chapter's Marines are getting more psychotic as this practice continues, aren't the other Unforgiven going to get worried that this deviant behavior is going to come back and lead to unwelcome investigations of their behavior as well? "Hmmm...these guys came from your geneseed, and they've been eating folks left and right! What are YOU hiding?" See what I mean?

 

Also, in the White Dwarf Index Astartes article on renegade Space Marine chapters, the Sons of Malice were excommunicated and attacked by the Sisters of Battle when it was discovered they engaged in cannibalism. It seems to me your Marines would need to be a LOT more secretive in order to keep this practice going. Eating foes wholesale in front of others seems like an invitation to being attacked, especially if anyone compares them to the Sons of Malice.

 

Now I'm confused. Several other chapters are well known for this. Blood Drinkers and Fleshtearers are first to come to mind.

 

Anyway, most will be moved to a more secret ritual in future drafts.

 

GENESEED

 

As I noted from the off, I disagree with the use of Dark Angel geneseed but thats by the by.

 

This is why I raised concerns initially about using Dark Angels geneseed...the Dark Angels not only have a much closer relation with their successors than other Chapters, but also have a really strong reason not to let this kind of behavior go on. And they have at least 4-6 other Chapters they could call on in a pinch to pressure the Templars to knock this stuff off.

 

I'll be making a lot of the questionable stuff more secret.

 

I think you'd be better off with some unexplained geneseed degradation. This is a wonderful opportunity to show the clear damage these practices are doing to the Chapter without their knowledge.

 

My idea now it to focus more on the corruption of the marines remaining humanity, and not blame the geneseed. The marines are going bad, not the DA geneseed.

 

BATTLECRY

 

Battlecry - Make it an ululating barrage of noise, its far more creepy and threatening.

 

Still working on that one.

 

GENERAL

 

I'm still interested in the basic concept you have going, but I really think you need to either explain more fully how the rest of the Imperium is reacting to this behavior if it's public; or (my suggestion) make it a heck of a lot more secretive. In fact, making the ritual eating more secretive can explain why the other Unforgiven haven't reacted...they can't if they don't know about it.

 

Will be working on it for next draft.

[Marshal Rohr]

Templars have nothing to do with the Kinghts Templar, In 40K it's the title that Sigismund bestowed on his Company, and later his Chapter. 38000 years is too long for the Knights Templar to still be a legend.

[Ecritter]

Odd he came up with the exact name and they still use the Cross of Malta as a symbol ... just like the original, don't you think?