IA: Lions of Caliban

[Octavulg]

One of the many improbable coincidences that dot 40K. Like Sly Marbo's name happening to be an anagram for a 20th century movie character. Or Doctor Jheste of the Dark Eldar having a name that's exactly the same as that of Elric of Melnibone's court torturer.

 

Allusions by the author are not necessarily examples of in-universe memory.

[Ecritter]

One of the many improbable coincidences that dot 40K. Like Sly Marbo's name happening to be an anagram for a 20th century movie character. Or Doctor Jheste of the Dark Eldar having a name that's exactly the same as that of Elric of Melnibone's court torturer.

 

Allusions by the author are not necessarily examples of in-universe memory.

 

My other reason for the name would still stand then ... I just like it. :woot:

[Captain Juan Juarez]

My only problem with the name stems from the fact it makes me think "Second Templars".

[Ecritter]

My only problem with the name stems from the fact it makes me think "Second Templars".

 

It should, that's what it means ... if not referring to the Knights Templar, perhaps referring to the Black Templars then I guess.

[Octavulg]

Point taken. I'll limit their mission, at least early on.

 

Keep in mind, there'd be little problem with them choosing to expand it for some reason.

 

If other chapters use scouts in this way, I've not seen it. I'll have to do some looking around, unless you can point me in the right direction.

 

Both C:SM and C:DA refer to scouts infiltrating ahead of the rest of the Chapter in order to gather information. They don't mention how far, but I try to assume that Space Marines are smart enough to do things carefully.

 

They are and they aren't. The Furies are there more or less by choice. Right now the Blood-lust rage is the only corruption that has appeared. More will come later of course.

 

I assume you're not going to directly state they're being corrupted by Chaos, yes? Just put the cause and effect in sight and let people draw their own conclusions?

 

If so, I'd recommend rounding it out with a little susceptibility to disease, a little bit of hedonism, that sort of thing. Not necessarily all in the same people, of course. Maybe a bit more Chapter infighting? There's more to Chaos than bloodlust, and it'd be a shame to miss the opportunity to show that off.

 

Priory is there as part of the Templar myth. And according to your guide, if I change something I have to tell about it. I agree its not much of a change, I did limit it to a very short blerb for that reason.

 

Change should also add something. I'm not sure this does, really. If you keep it, you should probably explain it with less reference to the Dark Angels - i.e. explain the concept of the Inner Circle briefly and explain that that's the Priory.

 

They're not crazies, they're just really angry. Right now the chapter is just best using a condition they neither completely understand nor can control to benefit them, and it seems to be working well for them. Yes this is a very bad idea, and I'm sure the chapter will suffer for it. That's all part of the fun.

 

I just...giving sacred Chapter relics to people you can't control is dangerous and wasteful. Surely they'd see that...

 

You could say the Dark Angels are similar to the Blood Angels, cause they both use Angels .. but I see what you mean. Right now its only coincidence that the Templars looks like so many others, but its a small universe … has to happen sometime.

 

They did used to share the same Codex. :woot:

 

Now I'm confused. Several other chapters are well known for this. Blood Drinkers and Fleshtearers are first to come to mind.

 

The Flesh Tearers are a Second Founding Chapter, hide it as best they can, and still make people phenomenally uncomfortable. The Blood Drinkers, IIRC, are actually an Ultramarine successor and do this sort of thing as part of their rituals - not publicly.

 

My idea now it to focus more on the corruption of the marines remaining humanity, and not blame the geneseed. The marines are going bad, not the DA geneseed.

 

Ah, but the Marines are the geneseed. The geneseed is the Chapter, in many ways - if it is unhealthy, so is the Chapter, and vice versa.

 

EDIT: Also, Second Templars...

 

The Templars bit is fine, but the Second bit is kind of lacking. Some allusion to what they do would be both traditional and likely possible in Latin. Templars Secundus sounds like they're intentionally imitating another Chapter, which feels rather un-Space Mariney.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

My only problem with the name stems from the fact it makes me think "Second Templars".

 

It should, that's what it means ... if not referring to the Knights Templar, perhaps referring to the Black Templars then I guess.

 

I actually knew that - despite the way my post may have sounded.

 

My point being the "Second" part just sounds off.

[Ecritter]

Keep in mind, there'd be little problem with them choosing to expand it for some reason.

 

I'll keep that in mind.

 

Both C:SM and C:DA refer to scouts infiltrating ahead of the rest of the Chapter in order to gather information. They don't mention how far, but I try to assume that Space Marines are smart enough to do things carefully.

 

Sadly a friend has my C:SM and I don't have C:DA, I have C:AoD instead ... I'll look over it again.

 

I assume you're not going to directly state they're being corrupted by Chaos, yes? Just put the cause and effect in sight and let people draw their own conclusions?

 

If so, I'd recommend rounding it out with a little susceptibility to disease, a little bit of hedonism, that sort of thing. Not necessarily all in the same people, of course. Maybe a bit more Chapter infighting? There's more to Chaos than bloodlust, and it'd be a shame to miss the opportunity to show that off.

 

I am not going to come out and say it, its true, but I'm not going to say it.

 

Chapter infighting is a must and will be shown in The Doton Incident

 

Change should also add something. I'm not sure this does, really. If you keep it, you should probably explain it with less reference to the Dark Angels - i.e. explain the concept of the Inner Circle briefly and explain that that's the Priory.

 

I'll add more to it then.

 

I just...giving sacred Chapter relics to people you can't control is dangerous and wasteful. Surely they'd see that...

 

Yeah, you'd think anyone in their right mind would see that ... its kinda the point.

 

They did used to share the same Codex.

 

Yeah I'm looking at it now. :P

 

The Flesh Tearers are a Second Founding Chapter, hide it as best they can, and still make people phenomenally uncomfortable. The Blood Drinkers, IIRC, are actually an Ultramarine successor and do this sort of thing as part of their rituals - not publicly.

 

I actually have you on this one. C:AoD shows both as being BA successors. The Blood Drinkers are oddly more Ultramarine like and completely codex adhearant.

 

Ah, but the Marines are the geneseed. The geneseed is the Chapter, in many ways - if it is unhealthy, so is the Chapter, and vice versa.

 

What I'm saying is I'm going more towards the marines corrupting the geneseed not the other way around.

 

Also, Second Templars...

 

The Templars bit is fine, but the Second bit is kind of lacking. Some allusion to what they do would be both traditional and likely possible in Latin. Templars Secundus sounds like they're intentionally imitating another Chapter, which feels rather un-Space Mariney.

 

The timeline would show the TS and BT being formed at roughly the same time.

 

I'm really more drawn to the Knights Templar angle. The AoA are collectors of knowledge, it's possible they came across some ancient text about the Knights and Casius would in turn know about them.

[Octavulg]

I'll keep that in mind.

 

It's good that you'll keep that in mind.

 

Sadly a friend has my C:SM and I don't have C:DA, I have C:AoD instead ... I'll look over it again.

 

P. 66 of C:SM, should you get it back. Don't have AoD myself. The current stuff seems better about actually thinking about how Space Marines would work militarily, at least. Less gothic, but also usually a lot less stupid. :P

 

Yeah, you'd think anyone in their right mind would see that ... its kinda the point.

 

You do rather have a built-in excuse for each time they do something stupid, don't you? :D

 

I actually have you on this one. C:AoD shows both as being BA successors. The Blood Drinkers are oddly more Ultramarine like and completely codex adhearant.

 

Ah, that's it, then. Knew they weren't typical BA somehow.

 

Have you read IA: Flesh Tearers? If not, you should. It would be valuable reference for this.

 

What I'm saying is I'm going more towards the marines corrupting the geneseed not the other way around.

 

True. You could make it very clear that their progression toward being all Chaosy started long before the geneseed problems, and that those are likely a manifestation of whatever is doing it. But then, the Night Lords and some other Chapters still have OK geneseed, so I suppose they can, too.

 

The timeline would show the TS and BT being formed at roughly the same time.

 

3rd Founding's about a thousand years later, IIRC. They wait quite a while. It just seems to limit the Chapter's identity. They're not their own Chapter - they're a knockoff. A publicly proclaimed one. B) That sort of thing can be so damaging for a young Space Marine's identity.

 

Plus, your name isn't an explicit allusion to their character! I mean, if it's not an explicit allusion to their character that small children can get, it just isn't a proper chapter name, you know? ;)

 

More seriously - it really does rob the Chapter of an individual identity in many ways. Templars Vorator is about as subtle as a brick to the head (and likely grammatically incorrect), but there might be sneakier references available.

 

Actually, if you want to make them even more Templary - have them be a cover Chapter (the Templars Resplendent would seem a good name in this case). Intentionally created to draw attention away from everyone else's hunt for the Fallen. The BT do know how to draw attention. Not sure that the idea's compatible with what you have, but you may have a way to make it fit. And the idea amuses me. :P

[Ecritter]

How about the Lion's of Caliban?

[Octavulg]

Lions, not Lion's. But sounds pretty good.

 

Templars Leonine could also work, but I'm suggesting it out of obligation. I don't particularly like it, and it's my idea. :)

[Captain Juan Juarez]

There is nothing wrong with

 

Templars *Something*

 

But don't make them the Second Templars.

 

 

Templars *Latin Word For Eternal*?

Templars Furioso - Which could exist, because it sounds familiar?

[Ecritter]

Sorry, I don't particularly like Templars Leonine ... I may go with Lions of Caliban, I've even found a chapter symbol already .... still thinking.

 

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/lion-logo-trans.png

[Octavulg]

Templars Furioso has been done. That's a good Chapter symbol, and I think it'd work pretty well with the Chapter (though getting it closer to the red you're currently using would seem wise).

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Templars Furioso has been done.

 

Sometimes its hard to know what I have thought of and what I'm subconsciously stealing from other sources!

[Ecritter]

I'm going with Lions of Caliban, give me a couple days to make the changes and I'll post a second draft. Till then, pray ... like you've never prayed before.

[Ecritter]

No Templars = No need for a bike Cavalry

 

So I'm thinking of make the 2nd company all Jump Pack Troops? Still need a new name for them. Comments?

 

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/ghostlion.jpg

[Octavulg]

Black Lions? :P

[Ecritter]

I was kinda leaning towards Ghost Lions :P

 

Black Lions is one I hadn't thought of.

[Octavulg]

Ghost Lions - only if they're sneaky.

[Ecritter]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/TemplarSecundusTerminator3-1.jpg

 

Black Lions for 2nd Company

 

1st Company .. still up in the air.

[Octavulg]

Ghosts of Caliban.

[Codex Grey]

Caliban Specters?

 

I wanted to try...

[Ecritter]

Thanks CG, I may go with that.

 

For now, 2nd Draft up and needing C&C. Major changes made.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Caliban Specters?

 

I wanted to try...

 

Just for point of reference: It's Spectre; "re".

 

I'm about to reread, so will edit this when i'm done!

 

in the 3rd founding..

- I'd say "during the Third Founding".

 

So was born the Lions of Caliban Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes

- "And so the Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes knows as the Lions of Caliban was born".

 

Interstingly, you can build a flaw in using the planning aspect -they fail to end a campaign swiftly, because of an opening they did not plan for and cannot utilise?

 

Some capitalizations, such as Scout.

 

called [i[Ghosts[/i],

- Broken tags.

 

[

- Might want to delete it!

 

Verging on heresy however, knowledge is everything to the Lions, and sharing it amongst the others in the chapter is the highest order.

- Think I get the jist, but if you say it aloud it doesn't really make sense.

 

All the geneseed are pure and functioning properly

- Should that be "is pure"?

 

All I can find, beyond perhaps overuse of commas in a few places.

[Ecritter]

Actually Spectral Lions aka Spectres will most likely make it in next change