Doing the Don'ts of DIYing

[Walter Payton]

Doing the ‘Don’ts’ of DIYing

 

Brother-Captain Alecto’s Meandering and Infuriating Hitchhiker’s Guide

 

 

 

Contents

 

*DISCLAIMER

*Author’s Note

*Introduction

*Across the board tips

*’Don’t’s

-Traitor Geneseed

-Space Wolf Geneseed

-Tampering/Mixing Geneseed

-Curing the Curse of Sanguinius

-Forgotten Companies

-Fulfilling the roles of other Imperial organizations

-Grey Knight Sucessors

*Cliches

-STC Possession

-Early Devastation

-Deus Ex Machina

-More Veterans

-Lost in the Warp

*Loyalist Traitors

-How To

*Conclusion

*Acknowledgements

 

DISCLAIMER: It is not, my intention, with this guide, to diminish, in any way, shape or form, the contents of the existing DIY guide, or, God forbid, to have a go at Rogue Trader’s grade-A work for the Liber. In the DIY guide itself, it says that you can do these things if you wish. It is my intention here to help those who do.

 

Thanks

 

BCA

 

022610.7M2

 

Author’s Note (skip if you want):

 

Making and submitting an article for the Liber can be a long, winding and torturous path. There are many obstacles the young neophyte must surmount before his warriors are worthy to stand amongst the hallowed ranks of the Liber Honouros. These foes are many, mighty, and have claimed the lives of many a man before you. Standing amongst their fearsome number are the dreaded BB Code, evil Trolls, greasy and oily Liberites, dreaded psychological attacks that are known as C&C, and, mightiest amongst their evil number, that shadowy and mysterious beast, known only as ‘Real Life’ (although this may simply be a plot by Agent Smith to prevent you uncovering the truth...).

 

One of these insidious foes is the ‘don’ts’ of DIYing. Call them what you will, common sense, prejudice, fluff-facism, these are a major stumbling block. After all, the traitors are cool; I want loyalist Iron Warriors! (*stamps feet) But I love space combat; Why can’t I have a huge STC battleship?! (*stamps feet) I like big, round, bouncy =][=DELETED BY ORDER OF INQUISITOR EISENHORN=][=; Why can’t I have female marines? (*more of the same) I love Veterans; What is wrong with having more veterans than anyone else? (*and again)

 

Well, nothing, but, (and this is not just a normal ‘but’, more a huge neon ‘but’, on its own Welcome to Las Vegas sign, replete with blaring music and a phalanx of exotic dancers) you need to be aware that a degree of subtlety, care, consideration, and a good knowledge of the fluff are required to do these things. You also need to be aware that there are caveats attached to doing these things.

 

This guide is written to help you familiarise yourself with these, and to give you some ideas as to how to incorporate these into your DIY loyalists and renegades. If you must.

 

Introduction

 

Liberite, the task ahead of you is not an easy one, and the road shall be long and hard. However, that does not mean that it is not worth treading. After all, no one thought it was a good idea to give India freedom from the British Empire until Ghandi came along and gave us a strictly non-violent slap on the wrist.

 

This article will be broadly divided into two areas, clichés, and don’ts. There are differences. Clichés are things that we have all seen, and that many people believe are used to cover up bad writing, or just adhere to the rule of cool, but don’t mesh as seamlessly with the ‘consensual reality’ of 40k. That’s the fluff to you and me. Don’t are things that simply ‘don’t work’ or, more often, are so difficult to make work that they should be counted as don’ts. Not all don’ts are clichés, but all clichés are don’ts (apart from a select few).

 

However, this guide is here to help you do avoid them, or use them in a refined manner.

 

Across the board tips

 

*Know thy fluff-this really helps. If you know the established fluff well it will be much, much easier for you to A: rebut the arguments of those decrepit cynics, who will moan at anything, and B: find the square hole, instead of trying to fit your square ideas into a round hole. A good knowledge of the fluff is essential for doing the don’ts.

 

*Be creative within the boundaries. Be as imaginative as possible, but cross-ref your ideas with the established canon. They will have, have, have, to mesh seamlessly.

 

*Recognise exceptions and rules. Using the whole ‘but the Space Wolves do it’ as a defence is useless, because the Wolves are not the rule, they are exceptions. Saying ‘but the Ultramarines do it’ is silly, because the Ultramarines can (although they don’t) just ignore the Imperium’s tedious little internal politicos, like the Inquisition (whoever they are). These chapters are so powerful, politically, that they can get away with more. For instance, in Codex: SW, it tells of how the Wolves fired upon an Ecclesiarchy delegation sent to investigate Fenris. The Wolves can get away with it, because they are ten thousand years old, massively respected, and admired the Imperium throughout. They are an exception. Let’s imagine that, say, the Marines Malevolent, or the Disciples of Caliban (both are illustrious and mighty, but not that illustrious and mighty) did that. The Inquisition would come down on them like the hammer of Perturabo. They are the rule, and you should abide by it.

 

Equally important is distinguishing between a quirk and a precedent. A quirk is something that only one chapter does, because Jervis Johnson says so. A precedent is when you prove that something ‘does happen,’ i.e: the Doom Legion’s custody of the pre-Heresy starfort could be used to prove that the Imperium does grant custody of powerful tech to the Astartes.

 

*Write well. Many of the ‘clichés’ are considered clichés because they are often used to cover up bad writing. However, if you write well enough, whilst still using a cliché, then people will see that you are doing this to add character, not to cover up your own (perceived) turpitude.

 

*Recognise that some things are off-limits. This guide will not tell you how to do Lost Legions, Fallen SoBs, Fallen GKs, or Female Space Marines. Female Marines, because there are already guides for that. I will ignore that. Lost Legions are off limits.

 

‘We don’t know what happened to them, we don’t know why they were expunged from the records and we don’t want to know’ (The DIY Guide).

 

After all, the mystery is half the charm of 40k. By making your men Lost Legionnaires, you have ‘solved’ the mystery, not just for you, but for us, and, were it to be in the Librarium, the entire B&C. As such, it will never go in the Librarium. What you can do, however, is make it very clear that this is YOUR plan, YOUR interpretation, not a fluffy IA for the Lost Legions.

 

Same with Fallen GKs. Whilst the wording of the bit in Codex: Daemonhunters that describes them not falling is equivocal, by making the equivocal unequivocal, you have ruined it for everyone else, crystallising it into one answer, not leaving it open, and thus alienating everyone else.

 

Fallen SoB are a bit of an enigma. Whilst it is mentioned as only one having fallen on their old ‘dex, the Ciaphas Cain novels and the Daemonifuge comic directly contradict this. The ‘BL isn’t canon’ line will most likely be used here, but that line was given to be applied to isolated, ‘one piece of BL fluff versus one piece of GW fluff’ cases, not in cases of multiple contradictions on the part of BL. However, until it is clarified in a Studio publication, or a GW statement, it will always be a mystery. As such, don’t solve it, for the reasons above.

 

Doing the Don’ts

 

This section will list the don’ts, and then tell you how to do them, but, be warned, there are caveats…

 

Don’t claim you chapter is founded using traitor geneseed

 

Loyalists and Renegades:

 

Well, the best way to include this, is to leave it ‘obvious but unsaid’, in the same way that it is obvious that the Inquisition destroyed the Celestial Lions, but it is never actually said. Hint at it, research the traitor’s genetic mutations or possible mutations, and apply them to your own marines, who do not know their genetic origin.

 

If you must make it explicit, then justify, justify, justify. Should you fail to do so, then you leave yourself open to massive criticism, and rightly so. The guide to DIYing states that, ‘there is simply no reason for them to do this.’ Indeed.

 

You have to think of a reason for this to happen, one that puts you beyond all reasonable doubt and possible fluff disputes, or, at least, as far as to make it plausible. You need a decent reason. Here are a few suggestions:

 

*An Adeptus Mechanicus foul-up

 

*The meddling of the Chaos Gods (they struck at Terra once before…)

 

*Secret, rogue experiments by a Magos thought loyal…

 

*The chapter, devastated by war, comes upon an abandoned but operational geneseed storage facility, and, after long debate and possibly civil war, uses what they find within…

 

*Fabius Bile

 

Don’t use Space Wolf Geneseed for your chapter

 

Renegades:

 

Easy, you captured some, perhaps raiding the AdMech, or looting corpses. Impressed by the bloodlust, and thinking that those fangs would be cool, put it to use, perhaps using illicit cloning to make it extra nutcase-ish.

 

Alternatively, they could be a SW traitorous splinter, like Skyrar’s Dark Wolves, which is easier. And, given the Wolves' past form considering Chaos (the Wolf Brothers from Dead Sky, Black Sun, the Wolf of Fenris, Skyrar’s lot) more than plausible.

 

 

Loyalists

 

Somewhat trickier. Here, I would suggest that the Cursed Founding is your friend. It was known to be an attempt to improve the quality of Astartes genestock, and as such it is probable, indeed plausible, that they tried it with the Wolves. Again, the rules of excellent explanation and reasoned argument apply here.

 

*Perhaps the chapter was later declared, with pressure from the Inqusition, to be impure, and a purge attempted. Now they are loyalist renegades, or worse.

 

*Maybe the attempt was a failure, but the notoriously independent Space Wolves rescued some aspirants, the Adeptus Mechanicus only realising too late.

 

*A foul-up, i.e, pressing the wrong buttons on the old cogitator banks. Perhaps the Adeptus Mechanicus use Windows Vista?

 

*Sent into permanent exile by the Wolves, for some perceived shame, and they have re-painted their armour and changed their name in accordance.

 

Don’t tamper or mix gene-seeds

 

Renegades:

 

Ignore the above. The Traitor Legions are known to do it, as, presumably, are renegade chapters. An example is Warsmith Honsou of the Iron Warriors, who has Imperial Fists geneseed.

 

Loyalists:

 

The best explanation is an attempt to build the chapter back up to full strength after some great cataclysm, perhaps looting allied chapters' geneseed (discretely), or directly raiding the Adeptus Mechanicus facilities, without getting caught (!).

 

*After being devastated by <enemy of the Imperium>, the chapter, in a desperate attempt to rebuild their resources, loots from enemy dead, but are found out, or suspected, earning them a grudge with the <insert name here>

 

*Chief-Apothecary thinks he knows best (sigh)…

 

*Fabius Bile, posing as a…

 

Don’t cure the curse of Sanguinius

 

Renegades:

 

Wouldn’t even try, probably using it as a weapon.

 

Loyalists:

 

Don’t completely cure it. Perhaps the initial attempts were promising, but then degenerations happened, or maybe, they have totally cured it, but, like the Lamenters, they have appallingly bad luck. After all, there are lots of successors, and it follows logically that they are at different stages re: their little secret.

 

*Maybe they have cured only a part of it. Perhaps they have cured the Black Rage, only to find the Red Thirst is now the de facto regression for them.

 

*Perhaps they make heavy use of aggression-repressant drugs, although these would have a terrible effect on their bodies, being powerful enough to affect a marine.

 

*Maybe they have embraced the curse, and are all homicidal maniac Faustians.

 

*Finally, perhaps your chapter has taken an altogether darker path, bartering with a daemon to remove their curse. Now they live in fear of the day he will call in his Faustian favour, or perhaps he already has. A bit like the relationship between Jack Sparrow and Davy Jones in Pirates of the Carribean.

 

Don’t have your chapter be a forgotten company

 

Renegades:

 

You could easily be a forgotten company, lost in the warp, or simply found guilty of dereliction of duty, like the Avenging Sons in the short story Renegades, by Gav Thorpe. Like Mixing Gene-seeds, this don’t apply to you.

 

 

 

The Sons, under the command of a Captain Gessart, are besieged on a small planet, where a rebellion has conquered all of the planet but the governor’s Reichstag (sorry, palace). The Sons, faced with insurmountable odds, just, well, sod off, leaving the world to be engulfed by a warp rift. Their strike cruiser flies into the Eye, and the men paint their armour black, after murdering those who did not agree with them, including their Chaplain.

 

 

Loyalists

 

Well, the Avenging Sons in the story were exiled. Uriel Ventris and Pasanius Lysane of the Ultramarines were sent on a ‘death oath’ by Varro Tigurius. It is plausible, therefore, that your company was found guilty of a similar punishment, and exiled. If you do this, invent the chapter that they were exiled from as well, as name-dropping is poor in an IA, except is certain cases.

 

*Perhaps a DA successor let a noted Fallen escape…

 

*Maybe they were found guilty of dereliction of duty…

 

*Perhaps the chapter has ostracised them because they believe them to be traitors. Now they campaign ceaselessly to restore their honour in the eyes of Emperor and Imperium…

 

Don't have your chapter fulfil the roles of another Imperial Organization

 

Loyalists Only:

 

Difficult. However, anyone who sits on the High Lords can suggest the creation of a chapter. As such, a Chapter that owes its creation to, say, the Mechanicus, will likely engender close links with them, offering protection and some muscle when Skitarii aren’t up to the job. The High Lords of Terra are represented thusly (I have marked the potentially useful ones for DIY with a tick, and vice versa:

 

The following nine offices are almost always represented as High Lords:

 

• The Master of the Administratum-cross

 

• The Inquisitorial Representative-tick

 

• The Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum-cross

 

• The Fabricator-General of Mars-tick

 

• The Grand Provost Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites-cross

 

• The Paternoval Envoy of the Navis Nobilite-tick

 

• The Master of the Astronomican-cross

 

• The Grand Master of the Officio Assasinorum-cross

 

• The Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepahtica-cross

 

The remaining three positions are most likely to be filled from among the following powerful leaders:

 

• Lord Commander Militant of the Segmentum Solar-cross

 

• Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard-cross

 

• Cardinal(s) of the Holy Synod of Terra-cross

 

• The Abbess Sanctorum of the Adepta Sororitas-cross

 

• Captain-General of the Adeptus Custodes-cross

 

• Chancellor of the Estate Imperium-cross

 

• The Speaker for the Chartist Captains-tick

 

Let’s examine the ticks. The Inquisitorial Representative is well, the voice of the Inquisition, and the closest thing that organization has to a unified position are his proclamations. Perhaps the Inquisition recommends a chapter be formed for operations within/around the Eye. The chapter works so closely in conjunction with the Ordos that they are as-good-as Chamber Militant (although do not say this ‘out-loud’ in your IA). See the DIY guide for more.

 

Next up, the Fabricator-General of Mars. This guy is, as his name suggests, the head-honcho techpriest of Mars, and therefore, the whole Mechanicus. Many chapters work in conjunction with the Mechanicus. You will find details in the DIY guide.

 

The Paternoval Envoy of the Navis Nobilite. The head of the Imperium’s navigators. Well, this guy has clout, and with a massive capital ‘C’. Whilst you may not have heard of him, he is, in my humble opinion, the most powerful man in the Imperium. The Imperium cannot exist without warp travel, and he holds it all. What is more, he has no qualms about playing the politics game. Many SM chapters are known to have links with the navigators, with the relationship between House Belisarius and

the Space Wolves being the chief amongst them. Why does your chapter have such links, and why do the Navis Nobilite need your chapter?

 

The Speaker for the Chartist Captains. The Rogue Traders’ voice on the Senatum. He speaks for the powerful Trader dynasties. Now, Rogue Traders chief function is exploration, as most of the ‘traffic laws’ of the Imperium do not apply to them. They are also very powerful, the oldest families having decrees written by the Emperor himself. As such, they certainly have the power to order marines about, (the authority of the Immortal Emperor of Mankind). Maybe your chapter assists Rogue Traders in their dangerous work, exploring and pacifying the stars in the manner of halcyon days of the Great Crusade.

 

Don’t claim to be a GK sucessor

 

If you do this, then you have already claimed to have the geneseed of the Emperor, as well as claimed to be something that would almost certainly be mentioned in the established fluff. As such, we must look further afield for such daemonhunting expertise. Nemesis force weapons, storm bolters and Aegis Armour are just fancy stuff, and your chapter can represent them as relic blades, storm bolters and artificer armour.

 

The best suggestion I have is to have your fledgling chapter trained by the marines of the Exorcists. After all, the GKs are daemonhunters, as are these men. These bad boys have each survived a daemonic possession, and are totally incorruptible. Either that, or use a chapter of the Astartes Praeses, the chapters that are assinged

to guarding the Eye.

------

 

Well, that’s all the don’ts that I feel I can feasibly do. The others, twenty-first primarchs, lost legions, created by a primarch in secret, are all, I feel, too alien to the

consensual reality to be feasible as part of a serious Liber article. Feel free to do them yourself, but don’t come crying to me (I have exams). Clichés now.

 

Cliches

 

Most of the clichés here are ‘make me awesome’ clichés, though there are some other ‘bad-writing’ cliches that I shall cover in due course.

Make-me-awesome Cliches

 

Don’t give your chapter a massive never-before-seen STC

 

Renegades:

 

Well, you are likely to have no regard for the dictates of Guilliman and the Pax Imperium, and so will feel no qualms about either building massive spaceships or fortress-monasteries, or capturing them. Perhaps your renegades work as a sort of ‘anti-Iron Hands’ i.e, working closely with the Dark Mechanicum, capturing technology for the eternal arms race between the Imperium and Chaos.

 

Alternatively, you could just use a space hulk…

 

The trick here is to not be Mary Sue. Don’t say, ‘and the chapter’s fortress ship, The UberDestructorCrusher, has a weapon capable of destroying a Ramillies-class starfort in a single shot.’ What does that add? Nothing, except making them extra awesome, and therefore breaking the suspension of disbelief, and making you look silly.

 

Loyalists:

 

Why? Why, why, why? Why does your chapter have such awesome technological power? Make sure you answer said question Well, if all you want is an awesome spaceship, a Ramillies-class starfort is fine. If you want to be a bit unique or zany, then an STC can still be used.

 

*Perhaps your chapter is currently garrisoned in a starfort. Perhaps you were formed to man/guard a particularly awesome find, like the Doom Legion. "

 

"The Doom Legion is responsible for maintenance and garrison of the "'Faithful's Deliverance'", the pre-Heresy star fortress that overlooks the notorious Elusian Maze asteroid fields. Few other space marine chapters can boast spacebound firepower of this magnitude." (C:SM, 5th Edition)

 

*Perhaps, whilst accompanying an Explorator Fleet/Rogue Trader, your chapter stumbles across an abandoned, as-yet-unseen pattern of starfort. The chapter now guards the creation, protecting the Adeptus Mechanicus as they plunder the ancient corridors and cogitator banks for useful data or relics.

 

Don’t have your chapter devastated early in its history

 

Loyalists and Renegades:

 

There is no reason why you shouldn’t, and this one seems to be the one that is most ignored when C&C comes up on threads. It is often used to cover up ideas or bad writing, and what I would say on the subject is: Don’t use it as a device to develop character, use it as a mechanism by which you can bring in other character-building plot devices.

 

Don’t use the Deus Ex Machina, Warp Ex Machina, Deus Ex Mechanicus or Deus Ex Ordos

 

DAMN RIGHT!

 

Don’t have more veterans than everyone else

 

The best way to introduce this is to have your chapter either:

 

*Engaged in grueling extended operations away from base camp, and so they are at a low strength, down to a bunch of battle-hardened soldiers.

 

*Recently fought a massive battle, i.e, invading a daemonworld, blunting a huge Waaaagh, or sustaining huge casualties from the ‘nids. All that is left is a small band of survivors.

 

Lost in the Warp

 

I have seen it done well, but only as a device to get them stuck miles away from where they are meant to be, not as a device to skip parts of their history. The same rules as with Devastated early in their history would apply here.

 

Now we come to the final section:

 

Loyalist Splinters of Traitor Legions

 

This seems to need a section of its own. Many, many people try to claim this, and I can’t remember a time it was done well. Nor can I ever remember a chapter like this getting into the Librarium, or one receiving anything less than a torrent of abuse. I do not say these things to discourage you, merely to help you appreciate the enormity of your task.

That said, it is not always really necessary. What draws people to traitor legions? Well, I am just going to ‘break down’ the World Eaters, a popular ‘loyalist traitor’ legion:

 

World Eaters means:

 

Khorne Worship

 

Fanatical Holy-Slaughterers

 

Berzerkers

 

Chain Weaponry

 

Red. Lots and Lots of Red

 

Apart from Khorne worship, all of these concepts can be easily incorporated into a loyalist chapter. Perhaps you have nearly all succumbed to the Black Rage (like the Flesh Tearers), or are just a particularly bloodthirsty chapter (like the Minotaurs). After all, everyone wants the Ultramarines until they need the Flesh Tearers.

This is applicable across the board. For instance, if you want loyalist Iron Warriors, why not have a chapter that favours siege warfare, and has an unadorned metal and black iconography. It is far easier to incorporate said ideas into an IA than to insist upon being ‘cool by association’.

 

However, we do appreciate that the Traitors are cool, and, that, however eminently more sensible it may be, an imitation chapter is not the same thing. If you must make yourselves a loyalist splinter, then WHY???!?!?!?. That is the big question. WHY???!!!. Why did they survive? Why didn’t the Imperium hunt them down and destroy them. Why didn’t they turn with their primarch? Why did they make the choices they did? You must cover, far more so than in a ‘regular’ IA, these angles. Otherwise you leave yourself far too open to criticism.

 

Hints and Tips

 

Remember who you are dealing with: “Shoot first and ask question’s later.” The Imperium does not ask questions. The Imperium just shoots you (in the face) with a cyclonic torpedo and then files you away in the Administratum vaults to rot, pending further inquiry. Your chapter will not be known as a traitor splinter and still be part of the Imperium. Ever. They may be believed to be someone else, or an unsanctioned loyal renegade, but the Imperium will not know that they are the black sheep of the traitor family and allow them to stay.

 

Don’t use Istvaan III: In addition to being highly unimaginative, this is also something that GW will either wrap up in the future, or leave blank. Yes, some loyalists may have survived, such as Ancient Rylanor, Garviel Loken and possibly Saul Tarvitz, but GW will either solve this, making your fluff wrong, or leave it open-ended, in which case you should treat it like the Lost Legions-don’t spoil it for the rest of us!

 

Don’t use an unimaginative plan such as ‘Lost in the Warp’ : Loyalist Traitors is a kind of ‘one shot don’t’, in that it is difficult, once you have already once flown in the face of convention, to do so twice in one IA. It is hard enough to pull off one cliché/don’t, let alone several.

 

Be prepared to take some heavy flak : People will crit this, and very possibly be quite negative. This is inevitable. However, decent writing, a good story, and a willingness to act upon other’s ideas will always win through. Feed ye not the trolls.

 

Conclusion

 

As the length of this guide attests (over 5000 words), it is not hard to do the don’ts, but a good imagination and writing skills can and will get you through it. Go forth unto the world, young Liberite, and make mischief with established convention. :rolleyes:

 

Acknowledgements

 

 

Anyone who reads this

 

Anyone who comments

 

The Liber Astartes

 

The Blessed Administratum

 

The Blessed Librarium

 

Grand Master Tyrak, for showing me the error of my ways…

 

Byeee

 

BCA

[Ferrus Manus]

EDIT: Nevermind, the Librarium agrees with you - therefore I'm happy. I'd rather not take stuff from Lexicanum without checking. :rolleyes:

 

OT, Most of this is already covered in the guide, though.

[Walter Payton]

I took the list from the Codex Imperialis. The speaker for the Chartist Captains is a logical deduction on my part, but seeing as Rogue Trader's are captains, and that they require charters, with a chartist being someone who follows/composes charters, it is fairly obvio what it means.

 

OT?

[Walter Payton]

OT, Most of this is already covered in the guide, though.

 

If even one part of it is not, then it will have been worth it :rolleyes:

[Grand Master Tyrak]

The Inquisitorial Representative-tick

 

I would say "cross" for him. He's under more scrutiny than any other Inquisitor, the position is rotated fairly regularly (unlike the other High Lords) so he won't be able to follow-through on using any High Lord-specific perks and he's probably the busiest High Lord there. Given the right time, connections and resources, the average Inquisitor could probably create a Chapter.

 

The Abbess Sanctorum of the Adepta Sororitas-cross

 

The last Abbess was lost in M36, so that's definitely a "no".

 

For instance, in Codex: SW, it tells of how the Wolves fired upon an Ecclesiarchy delegation sent to investigate Fenris.

:)

They sent a delegation? Clearly an author has never heard of the pact between the Ecclesiarchy and the Astartes. :rolleyes:

 

Before seeing this I would have rated this as an example of something any Chapter could do, and something the Ecclesiarchy would not do. Now this has thrown everything into confusion.

 

*Perhaps the chapter was later declared, with pressure from the Inqusition, to be impure, and a purge attempted. Now they are loyalist renegades, or worse.

 

You're using "Inquisition" a little loosely here. "Some Inquisitors", "a faction of Inquisitors" etc. would be better.

 

or directly raiding the Adeptus Mechanicus facilities, without getting caught (!).

 

That's only possible in two places - Hydra Cordatus (Storm of Iron) and Mars. One interferes with an existing plot and the other is a little over the top, don't you think? ;)

 

However, anyone who sits on the High Lords can suggest the creation of a chapter.

 

I thought it was "High Lords", not a single High Lord.

 

Deus Ex Ordos

 

The DIY Guide already mentions this as Inquisitor ex Machina, so it would be best to keep the continuity.

 

Grand Master Tyrak, for showing me the error of my ways…

 

I thought I noticed a few familiar phrases :lol:

 

A couple of notes on presentation - some coding headers, maybe? At the moment it's a cross between a wall of text and a list. Try to separate out the different sections and clump the writing together into paragraphs.

 

IIRC, the Chartist Captains are in charge of the massive non-warp-capable trading ships that trade between the Imperial worlds along their designated routes. They're really communities in their own right.

 

Other than that, this is very good. :tu:

[Octavulg]

Making and submitting an article for the Liber can be a long, winding and torturous path. There are many obstacles the young neophyte must surmount before his warriors are worthy to stand amongst the hallowed ranks of the Liber Honouros. These foes are many, mighty, and have claimed the lives of many a man before you. Standing amongst their fearsome number are the dreaded BB Code, evil Trolls, greasy and oily Liberites, dreaded psychological attacks that are known as C&C, and, mightiest amongst their evil number, that shadowy and mysterious beast, known only as ‘Real Life’ (although this may simply be a plot by Agent Smith to prevent you uncovering the truth...).

 

One of these insidious foes is the ‘don’ts’ of DIYing. Call them what you will, common sense, prejudice, fluff-facism, these are a major stumbling block. After all, the traitors are cool; I want loyalist Iron Warriors! (*stamps feet) But I love space combat; Why can’t I have a huge STC battleship?! (*stamps feet) I like big, round, bouncy =][=DELETED BY ORDER OF INQUISITOR EISENHORN=][=; Why can’t I have female marines? (*more of the same) I love Veterans; What is wrong with having more veterans than anyone else? (*and again)

 

Well, nothing, but, (and this is not just a normal ‘but’, more a huge neon ‘but’, on its own Welcome to Las Vegas sign, replete with blaring music and a phalanx of exotic dancers) you need to be aware that a degree of subtlety, care, consideration, and a good knowledge of the fluff are required to do these things. You also need to be aware that there are caveats attached to doing these things.

 

This guide is written to help you familiarise yourself with these, and to give you some ideas as to how to incorporate these into your DIY loyalists and renegades. If you must.

 

You are neither experienced enough nor (I would hope) arrogant enough to yet adopt the Liber Astartes patented "cynical-veteran-who-has-seen-it-all-before" attitude. Cease and desist, or Ferrata will be forced to take legal action to defend the B&C's licensed property.

 

More seriously, but on the same subject - you've been here two months, dude. Talk to me in a few years about how long and tortuous the path is. :lol:

 

Liberite, the task ahead of you is not an easy one, and the road shall be long and hard. However, that does not mean that it is not worth treading. After all, no one thought it was a good idea to give India freedom from the British Empire until Ghandi came along and gave us a strictly non-violent slap on the wrist.

 

I assure you, the reason most Liberites react to the violation of the DIY don'ts with a textual lathi charge is not because they are eagerly waiting to see it done right.

 

This article will be broadly divided into two areas, clichés, and don’ts. There are differences. Clichés are things that we have all seen, and that many people believe are used to cover up bad writing, or just adhere to the rule of cool, but don’t mesh as seamlessly with the ‘consensual reality’ of 40k. That’s the fluff to you and me. Don’t are things that simply ‘don’t work’ or, more often, are so difficult to make work that they should be counted as don’ts. Not all don’ts are clichés, but all clichés are don’ts (apart from a select few).

 

Cliche:

"anything that has become trite or commonplace through overuse."

 

"a saying, expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has been overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect rendering it a stereotype, especially when at some earlier time it was considered meaningful or novel."

 

Cliches often do mesh well with 40K. That's why they got so overused in the first place. It's not that people shouldn't use them, it's that they should be cautious in doing so. Most of the IAs in the Librariums embrace at least one cliche (like the amazing event which shaped the chapter FOREEEEEEEEEVEEEER!!!). Cliches are not the enemy. Lazy cliches are, but so's pretty much lazy anything.

 

Across the board tips

 

Honestly, I'd focus on the area at hand. This is a specific guide - be specific.

 

*Know thy fluff-this really helps. If you know the established fluff well it will be much, much easier for you to A: rebut the arguments of those decrepit cynics, who will moan at anything, and B: find the square hole, instead of trying to fit your square ideas into a round hole. A good knowledge of the fluff is essential for doing the don’ts.

 

If people have to be told this, they are already beyond your help.

 

*Be creative within the boundaries. Be as imaginative as possible, but cross-ref your ideas with the established canon. They will have, have, have, to mesh seamlessly.

 

Then they wouldn't be doing the "don'ts", would they? This is directly contradictory to the point of the guide.

 

*Write well. Many of the ‘clichés’ are considered clichés because they are often used to cover up bad writing. However, if you write well enough, whilst still using a cliché, then people will see that you are doing this to add character, not to cover up your own (perceived) turpitude.

 

...You know, I was concerned about my writing abilities. Now that you've told me to "write well", I know exactly what to do!

 

</sarcasm>

 

Seriously, man. This is a big, big, big, big, big, big topic. Not having the time to get to it is perfectly understandable, but don't try to address it if you're not going to do it properly.

 

*Recognise that some things are off-limits. This guide will not tell you how to do Lost Legions, Fallen SoBs, Fallen GKs, or Female Space Marines. Female Marines, because there are already guides for that. I will ignore that. Lost Legions are off limits.

 

...OK, what's the point of it, then? If it's to avoid the don'ts, then teach the young whippersnappers how to do it, man! If you aren't prepared to break every rule, why are you writing a rule-breaking guide?

 

You have to think of a reason for this to happen, one that puts you beyond all reasonable doubt and possible fluff disputes, or, at least, as far as to make it plausible. You need a decent reason. Here are a few suggestions:

 

The risk with giving suggestions is that it focuses people on those suggestions. Also, you skipped the Cursed Founding. Never skip the Cursed Founding, for it is the ultimate license to do whatever you want.

 

Really, I think you need to put more effort into the generalities, rather than having specifics. Explain why you should only hint at it, for example. Show a few ways to hint at it. Point out examples in other IAs. Show how to justify. Explain the process of geneseed selection, points about what geneseed is like and how it works, and then maybe offer suggestions.

 

Easy, you captured some, perhaps raiding the AdMech, or looting corpses. Impressed by the bloodlust, and thinking that those fangs would be cool, put it to use, perhaps using illicit cloning to make it extra nutcase-ish.

 

Space Wolf geneseed, IIRC, works completely differently from everyone else's. Like the BA, their process is unusual and abnormal. It is likely another Chapter wouldn't know how to use it. You should explain the particular quirks of Space Wolf geneseed and its use.

 

The best explanation is an attempt to build the chapter back up to full strength after some great cataclysm, perhaps looting allied chapters' geneseed (discretely), or directly raiding the Adeptus Mechanicus facilities, without getting caught (!).

 

Again, don't offer ideas. Explain the problems with it, and then offer general suggestions. Anyone good enough to do the idea well will be able to come up with something from some general guidelines.

 

* * *

 

The formatting feels rather informal, and could use a bit more consistency. As a general rule, things read better when presented in writing rather than lists - the list of High Lords is a good example of this. If you said something like: "Of the High Lords, the Fabricator-General, Paternoval Envoy and blahblahblah would be good examples of persons who would or could exert influence on the character of a Chapter."

 

Despite the length, I don't think you went into enough detail on most points. I also think the time spent on specific examples would have been better spent exploring the general concepts of this guide more thoroughly, and that the time spent on general tips for IA writing would have been better spent, again, on the general concepts of this guide in particular.

 

Some of the cliches etc. you mention aren't in the DIY Guide. I think each needs a clear explanation of why people object to it and what they object to. Then offer general suggestions for getting around that. Right now the whole thing seems to lack focus, and I think it would be a good idea to, well, focus it.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Cease and desist, or Ferrata will be forced to take legal action to defend the B&C's licensed property.

 

And here I thought that was your territory Octavulg. ^_^

 

More seriously, but on the same subject - you've been here two months, dude. Talk to me in a few years about how long and tortuous the path is :lol:

 

Agreed, even though I haven't been here quite as long as Octavulg.

Basically I think it's less about being cynical or jaded and more about having seen enough articles to know intuitively where the author is coming from and being able to predict what is going to happen to their article with said direction and attitude. A lot of the time you can pick the threads which are going to sink like a stone and most usually do.

 

The Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum-cross

 

I'm not sure I agree. Using the head of the Ecclesiarchy to perhaps influence a newly created chapter to take the same religious line as the church would be a serious power-boost for the Ecclesiarchy seeing how few Chapters actually do worship the Emperor as a god.

 

While I don't think it's an easy pick, I think he could be used given you can justify and write it out well enough.

 

I also disagree with saying one of the Don'ts of chapter creation is to have the chapter devestated early in their history. I'd say that while this isn't so common that every chapter has it's origin beginning in flames and tragedy, it's still a better way to drive a story forward than many other traditional methods. AKA any of the 'ex machina's' or the more typical mistake of having nothing to talk about bar the sheer amount of detail you can put into trivial points of your chapter because of how over-active your imagination is with 'my cool chapter' in your head.

 

 

greasy and oily Liberites

 

Try not to offend your target audience, most regular Liberites know each other and are fairly friendly and communicative. While some may have strong opinions on certain subjects, that's human nature and if you disagree then that too is par for the course. As I am a dedicated Liberite I rather dislike being referred to as being Oily or Greasy, frankly.

 

A good example is Octavulg himself. While he can be quite abraisive and opinionated and perhaps sometimes a little concieted (no offense intended, we've had this discussion before) he is generally right on the money and I value his opinion no matter how he gets it across. While we may heartily disagree on some points and have and do argue on certain subjects. He is neither Oily nor Greasy I'd say, annoying sometimes, perhaps, but I think you've gone and chosen the wrong terms to classify us with.

 

 

It's not a bad read overall, but it needs work and refinement.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

The Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum-cross

I'm not sure I agree. Using the head of the Ecclesiarchy to perhaps influence a newly created chapter to take the same religious line as the church would be a serious power-boost for the Ecclesiarchy seeing how few Chapters actually do worship the Emperor as a god.

 

I see your point, but I can't see it being easy to do (even if it's possible). The Ordo Hereticus exists to put a stop to precisely these sort of Ecclesiarchy shenanigans. To justify an Ecclesiarchy-sponsored Chapter, you have to get round them.

 

*Recognise that some things are off-limits. This guide will not tell you how to do Lost Legions, Fallen SoBs, Fallen GKs, or Female Space Marines. Female Marines, because there are already guides for that. I will ignore that. Lost Legions are off limits.

...OK, what's the point of it, then? If it's to avoid the don'ts, then teach the young whippersnappers how to do it, man! If you aren't prepared to break every rule, why are you writing a rule-breaking guide?

 

I think this section could use some expansion. It's not that they can't be done at all, it's just that doing them shatters the suspension of disbelief. All things are possible, it's just that some (these) ruin any chance you have of meshing with the existing 40k universe because of the tortured and convoluted reasoning needed to justify them.

[Octavulg]

Tyrak:

I think this section could use some expansion. It's not that they can't be done at all, it's just that doing them shatters the suspension of disbelief. All things are possible, it's just that some (these) ruin any chance you have of meshing with the existing 40k universe because of the tortured and convoluted reasoning needed to justify them.

 

Actually, two of them can be worked around quite easily - Female Marines and Lost Legions. The shared universe goes all to hell, but that's not a concern for everyone.

 

Female marines is fine as long as you're after "females in power armor" more than anything else. And Fabius Bile is always an option.

 

* * *

GHY:

And here I thought that was your territory Octavulg. msn-wink.gif

 

I rent my snarkiness and cynicism from the B&C for an absolutely exorbitant rate. Fortunately, going hungry helps me get the most use out of it. It's a win-win.

 

Basically I think it's less about being cynical or jaded and more about having seen enough articles to know intuitively where the author is coming from and being able to predict what is going to happen to their article with said direction and attitude. A lot of the time you can pick the threads which are going to sink like a stone and most usually do.

 

It's not entirely the same thing - he can still add something to the discussion, even without much experience. But he shouldn't pretend to be some world-weary veteran of Liber, because he isn't.

 

Hell, there are plenty of people around these parts who can pull cynicism rank on me. They just all got so cynical they collapsed into singularities of it and commentary can no longer escape. ;)

 

Try not to offend your target audience,

...

A good example is Octavulg himself. While he can be quite abraisive and opinionated and perhaps sometimes a little concieted (no offense intended, we've had this discussion before) he is generally right on the money and I value his opinion no matter how he gets it across. While we may heartily disagree on some points and have and do argue on certain subjects. He is neither Oily nor Greasy I'd say, annoying sometimes, perhaps, but I think you've gone and chosen the wrong terms to classify us with.

 

Submitted without comment, as a lesson for the ages.

[Lysimachus]

The Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum-cross

 

I'm not sure I agree. Using the head of the Ecclesiarchy to perhaps influence a newly created chapter to take the same religious line as the church would be a serious power-boost for the Ecclesiarchy seeing how few Chapters actually do worship the Emperor as a god.

I see your point, but I can't see it being easy to do (even if it's possible). The Ordo Hereticus exists to put a stop to precisely these sort of Ecclesiarchy shenanigans. To justify an Ecclesiarchy-sponsored Chapter, you have to get round them

 

It depends on when it happens as well. For example (shameless plug coming!) one of my DIY Chapters, the Emperor's Blade is very religious and was closely tied to the Ecclesiarchy at the start of their history. The reason it works is because I set it during the time before the AoA when the power of the Ecclesiarchy was at it's height, for a time they were perhaps the most powerful organization in the Imperium and there also was no law against them having 'men' under arms.

 

This article in general is an ok start, but it seems a bit unfocussed. A lot of it is already in the DIY Guide, it would be better to cut what is repetition and just refer to the guide, then you can focus on what you're saying that is actually different. Would cut the overall length and give what you've got more clarity.

 

Some better headers, plus more logical division of sections would help a reader too

 

 

Lysimachus

[Walter Payton]

You are neither experienced enough nor (I would hope) arrogant enough to yet adopt the Liber Astartes patented "cynical-veteran-who-has-seen-it-all-before" attitude. Cease and desist, or Ferrata will be forced to take legal action to defend the B&C's licensed property.

 

More seriously, but on the same subject - you've been here two months, dude. Talk to me in a few years about how long and tortuous the path is.

 

I was worried someone would say that. I am slightly dissappointed it was you, considering that you are part of my 'personal pantheon' on the B&C. With hindsight,

I probably should have expected that. Oh well, there is nothing else for it but to cry over your avatar picture and get drunk on Cava. :blink:

 

I hope that the legal action was a joke, I don't have the funds to hire Carter-Ruck just yet! :no:

 

On a more general note: Actually I have been browsing the B&C for nearly two years, and either borrowed friends accounts to comment, or hoped what I wanted to say was said by someone in possession of an account. Two months ago, however, I finally got my own computer and e-mail adress (rather than having to use friends' computers or the ones at the uni), so I could make a B&C account of my own. I object to being called arrogant, seeing as I went through the back articles in the Liber for a week, making notes from peoples C&C, for the purpose of making this guide, which is not easy when one has coursework and a thesis. I am not trying to be some world-weary veteran of the Liber, because I am not (I see no reason to apply my usual cynical attitude to such a wonderful service as the B&C). I am, however, trying to write in a more informal manner so as to make the guide seem more as a guide to doing the don'ts, than an extension of the don'ts. I am more trying to write humourously, however as a person who is cynical (extremely), in the real-world, I am sticking with what I know. In addition, many people only read guides after writing their first IA (I certainly did). This isn't arrogance, more eagerness to get something up on the web for comment.

 

Also, Chaos does not care about Health and Safety with regards to SW geneseed. Creating a masochistic slavering monster is a triumph, not a disaster for them.

 

The rest of your post(s), however, are delivered in your usual well-thought-out and ever-so-sweetly-mean manner, and I will be editing shortly :woot:

 

@Many People

 

Repitition of the guide seems to be another thing that people are mentioning. I will sort that out, thanks :yes:

 

If anyone has any writing to add to this, then PM it to me, and I will C&P it into the guide.

 

Formatting will be done later-I am very busy at the moment (as my rant earlier will attest), and, when I uploaded this yesterday afternoon, it was a case of 'skullheaders, tables and lists in a nearly 5000 word article? No way!'.

 

@Strike Captain Lysimachus

 

Very good, may add, with further comment on it :cuss

 

@Grey Hunter Ydalir

 

'greasy and oily' Liberites is self-depreciating humour. I will chage it to 'the Liberites themselves,' sorry if I have offended you, I am sure that you are a veritable walking bottle of L'Oreal.

 

Having your chapter devastated early in the history is in the DIY guide.

 

@Grand Master Tyrak

 

Thanks for the kind words!

 

The more critical aspects of your posts are all fair, and yes, the Ecclesiarchy did send someone over there. (Cheers Phil Kelly, way to screw up the canon. Maybe the Ecclesiarchs were afraid of the sodding rending ponies!)

 

Sorry about the Inquisitor Ex Machina. I have heard it called Deus Ex Ordos, and prefer the term, but I will change the term to keep parity with established conventions (paradoxical as that is :P).

 

On a general point, it is evident from the C&C (*looks at Octavulg with narrowed eyes <_< ), that this evidently needs (serious) work. I will do some editing later, including formatting. I am also thinking of cutting out the cliches section-any thoughts?

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone! ;)

 

BCA

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

'greasy and oily' Liberites is self-depreciating humour. I will chage it to 'the Liberites themselves,' sorry if I have offended you, I am sure that you are a veritable walking bottle of L'Oreal.

 

I geussed as much to be honest, but the fact is that not everyone will take it the same way. Self depricating humour is best when it is directed at the author individually, or at least have a such a strong association to the individual that the generalisation seems like it applies only to him.

 

The fact is that some Liberites (hell, a great majority of people that operate over the anonymety of the internet for any reason) can be highly abraisive and sometimes just plain abusive. B&C tightly monitors our interaction however in order to limit these kinds of arguments (seen elsewhere as 'flame wars') and rightly so. However unless someone is blatantly aggressive or disruptive you can easily suffer the more backhanded comments of some peoples peerless opinion.

Don't think I don't understand where you're coming from however.

 

In that sense I can sympathise with some method of lumping together all the idiots and trying to make a joke of it, but it's best to steer clear I'd say.

I think a lot of people probably have a bad opinion of me since I can come across quite high-and-mighty sometimes, though I don't intend it that way, there are shades of grey at work.

[Octavulg]

I was worried someone would say that. I am slightly dissappointed it was you, considering that you are part of my 'personal pantheon' on the B&C. With hindsight,

I probably should have expected that. Oh well, there is nothing else for it but to cry over your avatar picture and get drunk on Cava. cry.gif

 

There there. There there. It's alright.

 

I hope that the legal action was a joke, I don't have the funds to hire Carter-Ruck just yet! tongue.gif

 

...

 

I hope that you hoping that it was a joke is a joke, or we need to have a long talk about "things that are in any way plausible and how to recognize them".

 

On a more general note: Actually I have been browsing the B&C for nearly two years, and either borrowed friends accounts to comment, or hoped what I wanted to say was said by someone in possession of an account. Two months ago, however, I finally got my own computer and e-mail adress (rather than having to use friends' computers or the ones at the uni), so I could make a B&C account of my own. I object to being called arrogant, seeing as I went through the back articles in the Liber for a week, making notes from peoples C&C, for the purpose of making this guide, which is not easy when one has coursework and a thesis. I am not trying to be some world-weary veteran of the Liber, because I am not (I see no reason to apply my usual cynical attitude to such a wonderful service as the B&C). I am, however, trying to write in a more informal manner so as to make the guide seem more as a guide to doing the don'ts, than an extension of the don'ts. I am more trying to write humourously, however as a person who is cynical (extremely), in the real-world, I am sticking with what I know. In addition, many people only read guides after writing their first IA (I certainly did). This isn't arrogance, more eagerness to get something up on the web for comment.

 

I didn't call you arrogant. I, in point of fact, said that you probably weren't arrogant enough to be adopting this attitude. Like it or not, waxing loquacious about the difficulties facing new DIYers needs either a certain experience in them or a certain arrogance to assume you have that experience. Usually both, in varying degrees. I don't think you have either yet, but that's hardly a character flaw. Give it time.

 

In any case, the problem with writing informally is that it comes across as, well, less formal. People get twitchy, stop taking you seriously, focus on the jokes and not the content, somehow get offended by something you say, or any number of other problems. Added to that, the subject should be treated seriously. Writing IAs is as serious as any other part of the hobby - people are going to spend a lot of time and effort on these things. You can not take yourself seriously, but you should always take the subject seriously. Especially in this case.

 

Informality here will alienate a lot of the Liber-ites who read this. You're already doing something slightly controversial by writing a guide. Added to that, it's a how-to guide to overthrowing part of one of the Liber's most important institutions. Is there a need for it? Maybe. Is it a serious subject that should be treated seriously? Definitely. If you don't approach the subject seriously, you risk being seen as disrespecting the Liber and its rules.

 

A little humour and cynicism is fine. But too much obscures what you're doing and why. Tone it down.

 

Also, Chaos does not care about Health and Safety with regards to SW geneseed. Creating a masochistic slavering monster is a triumph, not a disaster for them.

 

Yes, but they have to know where to start. I'm not sure they would.

 

The rest of your post(s), however, are delivered in your usual well-thought-out and ever-so-sweetly-mean manner, and I will be editing shortly thumbsup.gif

 

Blunt. The term is blunt. ;)

 

Formatting will be done later-I am very busy at the moment (as my rant earlier will attest), and, when I uploaded this yesterday afternoon, it was a case of 'skullheaders, tables and lists in a nearly 5000 word article? No way!'.

 

Including them from the start makes that process easier.

 

...What, you haven't memorized the BBCode?

 

Also, considering my guide is approaching ten thousand words on its third draft with no appreciable end in sight, I laugh at your puny word count. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ;)

[Captain Juan Juarez]

...What, you haven't memorized the BBCode?

 

Also, considering my guide is approaching ten thousand words on its third draft with no appreciable end in sight, I laugh at your puny word count. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :)

 

Memorizing BBCode is far too easy, I keep doing it by accident!

 

Also, for all you feminists out there... Word count is just another way for a man to say "Mine's bigger than yours!"

[Walter Payton]

Yes, Octavulg, it was a joke, I am not that thick! You are very blunt, but in a cultured way- a bit like Brian Blessed reading Pliny the Elder. I will be updating shortly. And, no, never having my own account/computer meant that I couldn't feasibly construct and do an IA or a big article like this, so I have not memorised the BBCode stuff for skullheaders et al, having little need of them. What I do is open a new tab, find an IA that does have skullheaders, click quote, and C&P them into my own, changing the text. It is win-win-I get a skullheader, and they get a comment (it isn't fair to do it without commenting), thus booting their IA to the top of the page, and hopefully getting more comments, all of which will be more insightful and better than mine :D

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Actually, two of them can be worked around quite easily - Female Marines and Lost Legions. The shared universe goes all to hell, but that's not a concern for everyone.

 

If an author isn't bothered about the shared fluff universe, I would wonder why he's posting his IA in the Liber Astartes at all.

[Ace Debonair]

I have to admit, when I saw another guide floating around in here I was highly tempted to swear loudly. I was even more tempted when I saw what it was a guide for.

 

Does anyone else think it's inevitable that sooner or later a guide for writing guides will appear in this sacred forum? :rolleyes:

 

Anyway. I read the guide, and have prevented myself from swearing. It's probably not a bad idea to have a guide like this, but it's a tough subject to pin down.

 

Perhaps somewhere there should be a gentle reminder that all of these 'DIY don'ts' have been seen before many times on the Forum, and often suggestions of alternate ideas will come from those of us who have seen the idea fail before and would like to help others avoid the same grizzly fate.

 

Also as far as 'loyal traitor' chapters in the Librarium goes, there's a chapter called the White Hand who you ought to read about. They might not technically be loyalist traitors, but they're the closest I've seen to a workable version of the idea.

 

Keep up the good work, anyway. :lol: