Index Astartes: Hounds of the Hunt

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I am currently in the process of streamlining and clarifying my IA. In the first paragraph I discovered a glaring problem. I have the Sire becoming the first Chapter Master, but there is no indication that he is remotely qualified for the position. I am trying to correct this. I'm thinking of seconding the Sire to the Deathwatch for approximately 55 years while the rest of the Chapter is created. Is this feasible? Did the Deathwatch exist around the time of the 21st founding? As an alternative I thought about seconding him to the service of an Inquisitor, but I want to avoid Inquisitor involvement. I'm not sure where else I could a marine without a Chapter to get combat experience.

[NightrawenII]

I toyed a little with order of your questions, but bear with me.

 

Did the Deathwatch exist around the time of the 21st founding?

The Ordo Xenos already exists, so it's very likely. The Deathwatch RPG maybe says otherwise, but I haven't seen any dates.

 

As an alternative I thought about seconding him to the service of an Inquisitor, but I want to avoid Inquisitor involvement.

From what I gather about 21st Founding, there was some involvement of Ordo Malleus Inquisitors. Also the DW is Chamber Militant of the Ordo Xenos, so you can't escape the Inqusition influence. :lol:

The service in the Inquisitor's retinue is bad idea, since the Sire will not gain any experience of how the Chapters fight and function.

 

I'm thinking of seconding the Sire to the Deathwatch for approximately 55 years while the rest of the Chapter is created. Is this feasible?

It is problematic. ;)

The service in DW is restricted to already seasoned marines. I haven't heard about newb being seconded to the DW. And the DW operates a little different than normal Chapter, so the service in there doesn't cut it either.

 

I have the Sire becoming the first Chapter Master, but there is no indication that he is remotely qualified for the position. I am trying to correct this. I'm not sure where else I could a marine without a Chapter to get combat experience.

To be honest, the combat experience is your least concern. The main problem is to make him a Leader of Man, which is quite arduous and sometimes impossible task.

The only solution I can think of is "lend" him to several Chapters and let him observe and learn first-hand.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

NightrawenII, thank you again for your replies. I've been thinking about this since I read your post. The 21st Founding was sorta secret, as in the powers that be in the Imperium were ignorant of the methods used in this founding. They were aware of the Chapters as they ventured out into the galaxy, but they didn't know about the gene tampering and the intent to make a better space marine. Following this line of reasoning, the Sire couldn't really apprentice with other Chapters nor could he be seconded to the Deathwatch. Either of these choices would require alot of explaining. The Inquisitor or Inquisitors overseeing the cursed founding really wouldn't want to advertise. So, I was thinking of maybe they (the Inquisitor) sent him out as a smuggler lord with limited resources (one run down ship) and he has to thrive and not get caught. This may just be too much of a stretch. Option B, being the first he is sent out with the first squad of the Hounds to various battlefields inserted covertly given an objective and is told don't be caught or seen. The Sire would prove his worth as he gradually moves up in unit size as more Hounds are ready for combat.

 

I think Option B might be the ticket. Any glaring holes in my logic?

[WingsOfTheFalcon]

Reads well, I guess you'll be using the Space Puppy dex for these? :tu: Not too sure about the battlecry though, doesn't seem to really work with the fluff you've provided. Something like 'To the Hunt' or 'Hunters, Hoooooooooooowl' might work. Good job though, look forward to seeing it progress in the Iron Gauntlet.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Post 1 edited to version 7.0. Streamlined concepts and improved the flow of the information. Critiques and Comments welcome. Thank you.

 

Madwolf

[Captain Juan Juarez]

The Sire was implanted with 18 highly modified organs. The intent of this experiment was to create a faster healing Space Marine.

 

- Why? Space Marines have served for thousands of years and seldom been found wanting.

 

the Sire was given command of a squad of Inquisitorial Storm troopers.

 

- Where does the Inquisition come into this?

 

While the Sire was honing his combat and leadership skills, his gene-seed was cultured and grown to create the Hounds of the Hunt. As the marines of the Hounds had their Progenoids removed, they were added to the Sire’s fledgling command. After 50 years of campaigning and several hundred missions later the Hounds were near Chapter strength, the Sire had proven himself as a leader of men. Seventy percent of his original human platoon was able to move on to lead their own Storm trooper squads.

 

- Two problems with this, the major being "Mini-Primarch Syndrome".

The second is that if any human unit spent fifty years in the field then none would survive; humans age, skills dull with age.

 

The Chapter was created to conquer systems beyond known space.

 

- Well no, surely they were created as part of the testing of the "Sire"?

 

The Hounds began extended patrols and explorations along the border of the galactic south. These hunts last for 80 to 90 years at a time with an under strength Clan left to recruit and guard the Sanctuary of the Stars. The entire Chapter returns to Eametanene for 20 days during the Rites of Remembrance to honor their fallen, raise new leaders, and add to their historical oral Saga.

 

- You do realise that beyond the bounds of the Imperium is also almost certainly beyond the bounds of the Astronimcon? Means warp travel is a no-no..

 

After this discovery the Sire became withdrawn and morose. The Sire summoned his Chief Apothecary and retreated to the Sanctuary of the Stars to find a cure for the Curse.

 

- Really? A Space Marine who can't feel the way a human does becomes morose?

 

The Sire secluded himself with the Chief Apothecary, Chief Chaplain, Chief Spiritseer, and several other veteran Apothecaries. He devoted the next century to finding a cure for the Curse. Data relayed from the deployed Hunts indicated that most Hounds experienced the Curse roughly 200 years after becoming full battle brothers. Several packs of Hounds were recalled to Eametanene to assist with the Sire’s research. These packs never returned to service.

 

- This all feles a bit...Obvious. Also - there is a rule I forget - but theres a thing about how numbers are typed, whether it be as a digit or in words.

 

He decreed that the Apothecaries of the Hounds would be called Bonetakers, as their new role in the Chapter was to be integral to fighting off the effects of the Curse. The Sire then raised the senior Clan Chief to the rank of Houndmaster and then he turned and walked back into the shadows and has not been seen again.

 

- They're Hounds and you call the Apothecaries "Bonetakers"? Seriously? Dog and a bone.. Ring a bell?

 

Also, "Mini-Primarch Syndrome" again.

 

Eametanene is the closest thing the Hounds can claim as a home world.

 

- Why? In light of the preceeding paragraphs and sections this makes no sense.

 

After exploration of the system the Hounds made a covert planet fall.

 

- Did the natives miss the giant flaming memo in the sky?

 

The Sire refused to expose the natives of the Hounds’ new home world to the advanced technology of the Imperium. He forbade his children from making their existence known to the native populace. The Sire did not wish to manipulate the natives as he felt he was manipulated by elements of the Adeptus Mechanium and the Inquisition.

 

- Two points, first being they actually have no choice but to make their presence known.. How else can they recruit?

 

Also, He didn't want them to be manipualted, the way he was yet by that very denial he is manipulating their lives.

 

A Fortress-Monastery that is both sprawling, open and hidden? Er.. Makes no sense, neither does Chaplains abducting aspirants; how does this do anything but hinder? Every Chapter tests their potential recruits before recruiting.

 

The natives call this 20 day period of complete darkness, the Rites of Remembrance.

 

- Which is the first mention of this being the natives belief, with every other referencing the Chapter.

 

Canine spirits..

 

- This is where Suspension of Disbelief dies.

 

The altered Melanochrome organ in their gene-seed makes the Hounds particularly vulnerable to high radiation environments. This frequently pits the Hounds against the wishes of the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Hounds prefer to deal with heavily industrialized planets with Exterminatus. The Hounds would rather resurrect a planet than sacrifice themselves to defend a planet lacking a soul.

 

- The Melanchrome effects skin colour :huh:

 

Only the most genetically pure Hounds are ever sent to Mars to receive the ritual teachings. The concern is that if the tech adepts witness the curse first hand they will purge the Hounds and all they have achieved. This and the Sire’s feelings of betrayal account for the small number of Techmarines fielded by the Hounds of the Hunt.

 

- This makes no sense.. Why would the Tech-Priests of Mars care? The Lamenters were never purged for their curse.

 

Because of the Hounds’ tendency towards..

 

- This comes out of nowhere.

 

he will take its heart and consume it to determine the level of pollution present. This ritual will determine the level of effort the Hounds will invest in the war they are prosecuting. The higher the pollution the fewer Hounds the Clan leaders will risk in open conflict.

 

- This makes no sense.

 

Path of the Aspirant..

 

- Won't comment, as I don't agree with the idea of abduction.

 

The Hounds most often use one to several Scout packs..

 

- Makes no sense.

 

They treat the Codex more as a guidebook...

 

- Guidebook? But does it have a restaurant section?

 

...called Mastiffs...

 

- Seriously now, put the "They are dogs" stick down.

 

Use of Reserve Companies makes no sense, if each is still part of a Hunt.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

The Sire was implanted with 18 highly modified organs. The intent of this experiment was to create a faster healing Space Marine.

 

 

- Why? Space Marines have served for thousands of years and seldom been found wanting.

The Canon answer is its the 21st founding, stated purpose for the alteration of gene-seed was to make a better space marine.

 

QUOTE

the Sire was given command of a squad of Inquisitorial Storm troopers.

 

 

- Where does the Inquisition come into this?

Elements of the Inquisition and the Admech were involved in the 21st Founding

 

QUOTE

While the Sire was honing his combat and leadership skills, his gene-seed was cultured and grown to create the Hounds of the Hunt. As the marines of the Hounds had their Progenoids removed, they were added to the Sire’s fledgling command. After 50 years of campaigning and several hundred missions later the Hounds were near Chapter strength, the Sire had proven himself as a leader of men. Seventy percent of his original human platoon was able to move on to lead their own Storm trooper squads.

 

 

- Two problems with this, the major being "Mini-Primarch Syndrome".

The second is that if any human unit spent fifty years in the field then none would survive; humans age, skills dull with age.

Ok, addressed this some in the first sidebar. The Sire is not a Primarch. He is the first Hound. Second, the orginal platoon did not fight with him for 50 years they were rotated out as they aged and the Chapter numbers increased.

 

The Chapter was created to conquer systems beyond known space.

 

 

- Well no, surely they were created as part of the testing of the "Sire"?

this is the mission they continue with

 

QUOTE

The Hounds began extended patrols and explorations along the border of the galactic south. These hunts last for 80 to 90 years at a time with an under strength Clan left to recruit and guard the Sanctuary of the Stars. The entire Chapter returns to Eametanene for 20 days during the Rites of Remembrance to honor their fallen, raise new leaders, and add to their historical oral Saga.

 

 

- You do realise that beyond the bounds of the Imperium is also almost certainly beyond the bounds of the Astronimcon? Means warp travel is a no-no..

My understanding is that the Astronimcon is a galactic signpost. outside its reach warp travel is possible, just much more difficult and somewhat of a blind jump.

 

QUOTE

After this discovery the Sire became withdrawn and morose. The Sire summoned his Chief Apothecary and retreated to the Sanctuary of the Stars to find a cure for the Curse.

 

 

- Really? A Space Marine who can't feel the way a human does becomes morose?

Ok, got me there, I will adjust this a little.

 

QUOTE

The Sire secluded himself with the Chief Apothecary, Chief Chaplain, Chief Spiritseer, and several other veteran Apothecaries. He devoted the next century to finding a cure for the Curse. Data relayed from the deployed Hunts indicated that most Hounds experienced the Curse roughly 200 years after becoming full battle brothers. Several packs of Hounds were recalled to Eametanene to assist with the Sire’s research. These packs never returned to service.

 

 

- This all feles a bit...Obvious. Also - there is a rule I forget - but theres a thing about how numbers are typed, whether it be as a digit or in words.

Obvious how? Not sure what you mean. I don't think I broke any typing rules. I think the rule in formal written is for numbers over one hundred do not need to be typed out.

 

QUOTE

He decreed that the Apothecaries of the Hounds would be called Bonetakers, as their new role in the Chapter was to be integral to fighting off the effects of the Curse. The Sire then raised the senior Clan Chief to the rank of Houndmaster and then he turned and walked back into the shadows and has not been seen again.

 

 

- They're Hounds and you call the Apothecaries "Bonetakers"? Seriously? Dog and a bone.. Ring a bell?

 

Also, "Mini-Primarch Syndrome" again.

Until you pointed it out, I had not made ant connection. The Bonetaker is taken from the fact that they literally take the bones from their fallen brothers for use in the treatment of the curse. This named originated a few versions ago when the Apothecaries of the Hounds reclaim the ribcages of the fallen to mount in the vault as a recording of the brother's deeds.

I disagree about the "Mini-Primarch Syndrome" again

 

Eametanene is the closest thing the Hounds can claim as a home world.

 

 

- Why? In light of the preceeding paragraphs and sections this makes no sense.

Might of missed the wording in the rewrite, I will look at this part.

 

QUOTE

After exploration of the system the Hounds made a covert planet fall.

 

 

- Did the natives miss the giant flaming memo in the sky?

The natives are hunter-gatherers, they did not see a space craft but a sign from the Emperor. They have no reason to believe Marines share their planet.

 

QUOTE

The Sire refused to expose the natives of the Hounds’ new home world to the advanced technology of the Imperium. He forbade his children from making their existence known to the native populace. The Sire did not wish to manipulate the natives as he felt he was manipulated by elements of the Adeptus Mechanium and the Inquisition.

 

 

- Two points, first being they actually have no choice but to make their presence known.. How else can they recruit?

 

Also, He didn't want them to be manipualted, the way he was yet by that very denial he is manipulating their lives.

 

A Fortress-Monastery that is both sprawling, open and hidden? Er.. Makes no sense, neither does Chaplains abducting aspirants; how does this do anything but hinder? Every Chapter tests their potential recruits before recruiting.

1) The Hounds don't recruit they abduct, so they do not appear before a tribe and say, "give me your children."

2) There isn't any manipulation by the Sire on the culture of Eametanene. Just those the Chapter takes as recruits.

3)The Sanctuary of the Stars is sprawling and open in the bottom of a volcano crater. It makes sense I just need to explain it better.

4) The hounds do test their "recruits", we will have to agree to disagree on the point of abduction by Chaplains.

 

QUOTE

The natives call this 20 day period of complete darkness, the Rites of Remembrance.

 

 

- Which is the first mention of this being the natives belief, with every other referencing the Chapter.

I'll look into this.

 

QUOTE

Canine spirits..

 

 

- This is where Suspension of Disbelief dies.

Ok, but why?

 

QUOTE

The altered Melanochrome organ in their gene-seed makes the Hounds particularly vulnerable to high radiation environments. This frequently pits the Hounds against the wishes of the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Hounds prefer to deal with heavily industrialized planets with Exterminatus. The Hounds would rather resurrect a planet than sacrifice themselves to defend a planet lacking a soul.

 

 

- The Melanchrome effects skin colour huh.gif

It also thickens based on the level of radiation it is exposed to. Its in the old IA article about creation of a space marine.

 

QUOTE

Only the most genetically pure Hounds are ever sent to Mars to receive the ritual teachings. The concern is that if the tech adepts witness the curse first hand they will purge the Hounds and all they have achieved. This and the Sire’s feelings of betrayal account for the small number of Techmarines fielded by the Hounds of the Hunt.

 

 

- This makes no sense.. Why would the Tech-Priests of Mars care? The Lamenters were never purged for their curse.

Pretty sure that a space marine exploding in front a few mech adepts would lead to an intense investigation by the Inquisition.

 

QUOTE

Because of the Hounds’ tendency towards..

 

 

- This comes out of nowhere.

meant for this brutal honesty to play a bigger part in the Chapter's character, but I think it might be too much at this point. I might have to remove it.

 

QUOTE

he will take its heart and consume it to determine the level of pollution present. This ritual will determine the level of effort the Hounds will invest in the war they are prosecuting. The higher the pollution the fewer Hounds the Clan leaders will risk in open conflict.

 

 

- This makes no sense.

Its easy, high level of pollution = the Hounds go back to their ships and blown the planet into a lifeless rock.

 

QUOTE

Path of the Aspirant..

 

 

- Won't comment, as I don't agree with the idea of abduction.

Agree to disagree

 

QUOTE

The Hounds most often use one to several Scout packs..

 

 

- Makes no sense.

They're decoys/chasers for the trap/ambush

QUOTE

They treat the Codex more as a guidebook...

 

 

- Guidebook? But does it have a restaurant section?

Indeed it does and it says don't eat Chaos spawn.

 

QUOTE

...called Mastiffs...

 

 

- Seriously now, put the "They are dogs" stick down.

 

Use of Reserve Companies makes no sense, if each is still part of a Hunt.

They are Terminators. In previous versions they were called Rockeaters. Not sure I've been that heavy handed with the "They are dogs" stick. What about the reserve Companies makes no sense? They are paired with Battle companies as support and reinforcement. 5 Hunts each with 2 companies.

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

Madwolf

Edited January 24, 2011 by Madwolf Shadowmane

[NightrawenII]

The Sire was implanted with 18 highly modified organs. The intent of this experiment was to create a faster healing Space Marine.

 

 

- Why? Space Marines have served for thousands of years and seldom been found wanting.

The Canon answer is its the 21st founding, stated purpose for the alteration of gene-seed was to make a better space marine.

Truth to be told. You don't need all 18 organs to be modified.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I hadn't actually meant that all 18 organs were modified, but I see how it reads that way. I will change it to 5 highly modified organs. I just notice that Melanochrome Organ appears to be retconned in 5th edition. It isn't listed in the current Space Marine codex. There should actually be 19 organs total.

 

Madwolf

Edited January 24, 2011 by Madwolf Shadowmane

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Elements of the Inquisition and the Admech were involved in the 21st Founding

 

- Aye, but this is the first mention and literally comes from nowhere.

 

While the Sire was honing his combat and leadership skills, his gene-seed was cultured and grown to create the Hounds of the Hunt. As the marines of the Hounds had their Progenoids removed, they were added to the Sire’s fledgling command. After 50 years of campaigning and several hundred missions later the Hounds were near Chapter strength, the Sire had proven himself as a leader of men. Seventy percent of his original human platoon was able to move on to lead their own Storm trooper squads.

 

 

- Two problems with this, the major being "Mini-Primarch Syndrome".

The second is that if any human unit spent fifty years in the field then none would survive; humans age, skills dull with age.

 

Ok, addressed this some in the first sidebar. The Sire is not a Primarch. He is the first Hound. Second, the orginal platoon did not fight with him for 50 years they were rotated out as they aged and the Chapter numbers increased.

 

- But the way the IA is written makes "The Sire" look and sound like a Primarch - that's a conclusion some people will draw, to the detriment of the article.

What do Chapter numbers have to do with their mission? There is no link in the article.

Also, how easy do you think it is to extract/repalce a mission team in enemy held territory? See info aboute the Gaunts Ghosts mission to Gereon.

 

The Chapter was created to conquer systems beyond known space.

 

- Well no, surely they were created as part of the testing of the "Sire"?

 

this is the mission they continue with

 

- Perhaps, but the statement is misleading.

 

The Hounds began extended patrols and explorations along the border of the galactic south. These hunts last for 80 to 90 years at a time with an under strength Clan left to recruit and guard the Sanctuary of the Stars. The entire Chapter returns to Eametanene for 20 days during the Rites of Remembrance to honor their fallen, raise new leaders, and add to their historical oral Saga.

 

 

- You do realise that beyond the bounds of the Imperium is also almost certainly beyond the bounds of the Astronimcon? Means warp travel is a no-no..

 

My understanding is that the Astronimcon is a galactic signpost. outside its reach warp travel is possible, just much more difficult and somewhat of a blind jump.

 

-A blind jump means you can end up literally anywhere.

 

The Sire secluded himself with the Chief Apothecary, Chief Chaplain, Chief Spiritseer, and several other veteran Apothecaries. He devoted the next century to finding a cure for the Curse. Data relayed from the deployed Hunts indicated that most Hounds experienced the Curse roughly 200 years after becoming full battle brothers. Several packs of Hounds were recalled to Eametanene to assist with the Sire’s research. These packs never returned to service.

 

 

- This all felsl a bit...Obvious. Also - there is a rule I forget - but theres a thing about how numbers are typed, whether it be as a digit or in words.

 

Obvious how? Not sure what you mean. I don't think I broke any typing rules. I think the rule in formal written is for numbers over one hundred do not need to be typed out.

 

- It's hard to articulate.. I just simply saw it coming. It's not always a bad thing, but thought I'd mention it.

 

He decreed that the Apothecaries of the Hounds would be called Bonetakers, as their new role in the Chapter was to be integral to fighting off the effects of the Curse. The Sire then raised the senior Clan Chief to the rank of Houndmaster and then he turned and walked back into the shadows and has not been seen again.

 

 

- They're Hounds and you call the Apothecaries "Bonetakers"? Seriously? Dog and a bone.. Ring a bell?

 

Also, "Mini-Primarch Syndrome" again.

 

Until you pointed it out, I had not made ant connection. The Bonetaker is taken from the fact that they literally take the bones from their fallen brothers for use in the treatment of the curse. This named originated a few versions ago when the Apothecaries of the Hounds reclaim the ribcages of the fallen to mount in the vault as a recording of the brother's deeds.

I disagree about the "Mini-Primarch Syndrome" again

 

- That's as may be, but it will cause many people to do as I did.. Drop from the article to laugh, which then coours the way the rest of the article may be read.

There's no actual need to have different names for every speciality.. It doesn't actually add anything unless their duties are different and need to be shown as such.

Disappears mysteriously never to be seen again? What, he disappear into the Webway? *giant hint hint*

 

Eametanene is the closest thing the Hounds can claim as a home world.

 

- Why? In light of the preceeding paragraphs and sections this makes no sense.

 

Might of missed the wording in the rewrite, I will look at this part.

 

- It's a wording issue really, but suffice to say as is it will lead to some confusion.

 

After exploration of the system the Hounds made a covert planet fall.

 

 

- Did the natives miss the giant flaming memo in the sky?

 

The natives are hunter-gatherers, they did not see a space craft but a sign from the Emperor. They have no reason to believe Marines share their planet.

 

- Still, it's hardly covert.. What if the decide to investigate?

 

Canine spirits..

 

 

- This is where Suspension of Disbelief dies.

 

Ok, but why?

 

- Too close to worshipping false idols.. The merest idea that the Emperor is a Dog-Spirit would see sanctions from the Eccliesiarchy; remember, the status quo is maintained only by the notion that as long as there are no heretical beliefs on the part of the Chapter or a worlds natives, then the Astartes keep their autonomy from the Imperial Church.

 

The altered Melanochrome organ in their gene-seed makes the Hounds particularly vulnerable to high radiation environments. This frequently pits the Hounds against the wishes of the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Hounds prefer to deal with heavily industrialized planets with Exterminatus. The Hounds would rather resurrect a planet than sacrifice themselves to defend a planet lacking a soul.

 

 

- The Melanchrome effects skin colour huh.gif

 

It also thickens based on the level of radiation it is exposed to. Its in the old IA article about creation of a space marine.

 

- Haven't read the IA articles in a very long time :wacko:

 

Only the most genetically pure Hounds are ever sent to Mars to receive the ritual teachings. The concern is that if the tech adepts witness the curse first hand they will purge the Hounds and all they have achieved. This and the Sire’s feelings of betrayal account for the small number of Techmarines fielded by the Hounds of the Hunt.

 

 

- This makes no sense.. Why would the Tech-Priests of Mars care? The Lamenters were never purged for their curse.

 

Pretty sure that a space marine exploding in front a few mech adepts would lead to an intense investigation by the Inquisition.

 

- Why? Any number of reasons could signal a simple explanation.

 

Because of the Hounds’ tendency towards..

 

 

- This comes out of nowhere.

 

meant for this brutal honesty to play a bigger part in the Chapter's character, but I think it might be too much at this point. I might have to remove it.

 

- That's cool, but this is the first mention of their brutal honesty that I recall.

 

he will take its heart and consume it to determine the level of pollution present. This ritual will determine the level of effort the Hounds will invest in the war they are prosecuting. The higher the pollution the fewer Hounds the Clan leaders will risk in open conflict.

 

 

- This makes no sense.

 

Its easy, high level of pollution = the Hounds go back to their ships and blown the planet into a lifeless rock.

 

- Consuming a creatures heart will tell you almost nothing about it, certainly nothing about the level of pollution.. Which is stupid when you have a fleet and troops equipped with advanced sensory devices.

It's also a fairly arbitrary way to decide whether a world is worth saving, one that would see sactions just because the Hounds are unwilling to fight.

 

The Hounds most often use one to several Scout packs..

 

 

- Makes no sense.

 

They're decoys/chasers for the trap/ambush

 

- My point was that "one to several" makes no sense, poor choice of words.

 

They treat the Codex more as a guidebook...

 

 

- Guidebook? But does it have a restaurant section?

 

Indeed it does and it says don't eat Chaos spawn.

 

- Always good to know.. But still a poor choice of word, in my opinion.

 

...called Mastiffs...

 

 

- Seriously now, put the "They are dogs" stick down.

 

Use of Reserve Companies makes no sense, if each is still part of a Hunt.

 

They are Terminators. In previous versions they were called Rockeaters. Not sure I've been that heavy handed with the "They are dogs" stick. What about the reserve Companies makes no sense? They are paired with Battle companies as support and reinforcement. 5 Hunts each with 2 companies.

 

Each Company is self-sufficient but you have Reserve Companies, which implies you have Codex-adherent Reserve Companies which doesn't make them self-sufficient.

 

Canine spirits, Mastiffs, Bonetakers, naming them "Hounds"... It's abounded with dog references.. To be honest, you missed out that one overwhelming quality most dogs posses: loyalty.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

In an effort to fight the wall of quotes, I will number my responses to your comments.

 

1)I thought it was known to the readers that elements of the Inquisition and the Ad Mech were involved in the 21st Founding. If not, how much should I explain?

 

2)The Sire did campaign for 50 years. He and his platoon were inserted and extracted in many different warzones in a variety of planets. As more of the fledgling Hounds matured they joined the Sire's ad hoc unit and when there were enuff they replaced the Storm troopers altogether. To answer your question about extraction and insertion, if depends on the quality of the unit, the planning involved, and the ability of the organization to adapt to changing situations. My thoughts were they dropped the Sire plus friends in an area, gave him a few objects and a timeline to accomplish them and then popped a homing beacon when they were ready to pick him up.

 

3)I will either find a way to better incorporate it into the IA as a whole or discard it.

 

4)I did not think that part thru to its logical conclusion. I thought I read somewhere that Space marines were exploring the edges of known space to find the origins of the Tyranids?

 

5)so was the obvious good or bad in this case?

 

6)I'm actually pondering the Idea of combining the Chaplain and Librarian duties in the Spiritseer title. Other than stealing aspirants Chaplains are sort of redundant in the Hounds. The Sire did not disappear into the Webway, but there is a hint later in the IA. The fate of the Sire is not a topic the Hounds will share. In fact only the senior offices know what his fate is. Because of this I kept it sort of vague, but there is a method to my madness.

 

7)Already fixed the wording in version 7.1 (haven't posted it yet)

 

8)Its just a falling star. changed it so it is not a covert planet fall.

 

9)Ok, one quote

The Cult of the Hunt is based on the reverence of a pantheon of canine spirits and ancestors. This reverence comes from the beliefs of the natives of Eametanene. The Emperor is the foremost of these ancestors. He is not worshipped but is called upon to judge and witness deeds of the Hounds.

Not just dog spirits, but wolf, jackal, coyote, and fox too.

 

10)Last night I found that the Melanochrome organ is left out of Codex Space Marines 5th Edition. The melanochrome organ thickens and darkens under increased radiation.

 

11)Part of this is a hold over from previous version. Before the curse cause the Hounds skin to grow uncontrollably when damaged and in doing so look like tentacles (read the Hound appeared to be a Chaos Spawn). I still think a healthy astarte undergoing cybernetic modification who spontaneously becomes a cloud of tissue and mist would make the Ad Mech do a double take.

 

12)Yeah, I would like that trait to be part of their character but I'm not sure if I can work it into the rest of the IA. So, I might just remove it.

 

13)First part, I beg to differ. The Omophagea absorb memory from flesh and the Neuroglottis tests by taste, smell, and/or chewing the presence of toxins. Second part, its not that they don't want to fight they feel that the, "juice is not worth the squeeze" so to speak. This might be a way to work in the whole brutal honesty thing, by changing this up a little. I will ponder the second part of this point.

 

14)changed it to just Scout packs in version 7.1

 

15)It might be poor wording but literally at its heart the codex is just a tactical guidebook.

 

16)The Hounds have Reserve Company but they are not the two tactical, one assault, and one devastator companies. They can be fielded as an independent unit, but they also serve as combat replacements for the Battle companies.

 

Hounds means more canines than just dogs. There are 1st Hunt=Wolves, 2nd Hunt=Dogs, 3rd Hunt=Jackals, 4th Hunt=Coyotes, and 5th Hunt=Foxes; all are canines, not all are dogs. The multiple types of canines is partly why loyalty did not make into this draft.

 

Thank you again from your time and comments.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

In an effort to fight the wall of quotes, I will number my responses to your comments.

 

1)I thought it was known to the readers that elements of the Inquisition and the Ad Mech were involved in the 21st Founding. If not, how much should I explain?

 

For most readers it may be, but there's always the chance someone wont have as much background knowledge as you.

 

2)The Sire did campaign for 50 years. He and his platoon were inserted and extracted in many different warzones in a variety of planets. As more of the fledgling Hounds matured they joined the Sire's ad hoc unit and when there were enuff they replaced the Storm troopers altogether. To answer your question about extraction and insertion, if depends on the quality of the unit, the planning involved, and the ability of the organization to adapt to changing situations. My thoughts were they dropped the Sire plus friends in an area, gave him a few objects and a timeline to accomplish them and then popped a homing beacon when they were ready to pick him up.

 

But you make a point of saying behind enemy lines, which is where my problem occurs.

 

3)I will either find a way to better incorporate it into the IA as a whole or discard it.

 

4)I did not think that part thru to its logical conclusion. I thought I read somewhere that Space marines were exploring the edges of known space to find the origins of the Tyranids?

 

The Astartes kill things for a living, I can't see them caring where they came from, only that they die.

 

5)so was the obvious good or bad in this case?

 

That's a matter of personal opinion, so my answer would not be helpful either way.

 

6)I'm actually pondering the Idea of combining the Chaplain and Librarian duties in the Spiritseer title. Other than stealing aspirants Chaplains are sort of redundant in the Hounds. The Sire did not disappear into the Webway, but there is a hint later in the IA. The fate of the Sire is not a topic the Hounds will share. In fact only the senior offices know what his fate is. Because of this I kept it sort of vague, but there is a method to my madness.

 

If you emphasise the loyalty aspects, then you have a job for the Chaplains.

 

7)Already fixed the wording in version 7.1 (haven't posted it yet)

 

8)Its just a falling star. changed it so it is not a covert planet fall.

 

9)Ok, one quote

The Cult of the Hunt is based on the reverence of a pantheon of canine spirits and ancestors. This reverence comes from the beliefs of the natives of Eametanene. The Emperor is the foremost of these ancestors. He is not worshipped but is called upon to judge and witness deeds of the Hounds.

Not just dog spirits, but wolf, jackal, coyote, and fox too.

 

One Astartes Chapter was declared Excommunicate Traitoris for worshipping animal spirits.

 

10)Last night I found that the Melanochrome organ is left out of Codex Space Marines 5th Edition. The melanochrome organ thickens and darkens under increased radiation.

 

11)Part of this is a hold over from previous version. Before the curse cause the Hounds skin to grow uncontrollably when damaged and in doing so look like tentacles (read the Hound appeared to be a Chaos Spawn). I still think a healthy astarte undergoing cybernetic modification who spontaneously becomes a cloud of tissue and mist would make the Ad Mech do a double take.

 

It depends how and where it might occur; the AdMech might think it can blackmail you.

 

12)Yeah, I would like that trait to be part of their character but I'm not sure if I can work it into the rest of the IA. So, I might just remove it.

 

13)First part, I beg to differ. The Omophagea absorb memory from flesh and the Neuroglottis tests by taste, smell, and/or chewing the presence of toxins. Second part, its not that they don't want to fight they feel that the, "juice is not worth the squeeze" so to speak. This might be a way to work in the whole brutal honesty thing, by changing this up a little. I will ponder the second part of this point.

 

Toxins does not equal pollution, dear fellow.

 

14)changed it to just Scout packs in version 7.1

 

15)It might be poor wording but literally at its heart the codex is just a tactical guidebook.

 

Woo for the Codex, it's still the wrong choice of word.

 

16)The Hounds have Reserve Company but they are not the two tactical, one assault, and one devastator companies. They can be fielded as an independent unit, but they also serve as combat replacements for the Battle companies.

 

My point was that the two statements appear to conflict; each Company is independant/mention of Reserve Comapnies.

 

Hounds means more canines than just dogs. There are 1st Hunt=Wolves, 2nd Hunt=Dogs, 3rd Hunt=Jackals, 4th Hunt=Coyotes, and 5th Hunt=Foxes; all are canines, not all are dogs. The multiple types of canines is partly why loyalty did not make into this draft.

 

Yes, but that's a distinction many people will not make when reading the IA.

 

Thank you again from your time and comments.

 

Wee will meet again, Mr Bond.... *strokes white cat*

 

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

1. I will on including a brief explanation of the 21st founding for the next draft.

2. I didn't specifically state behind enemy lines but it is inferred. Initially the unit is small, but it grows as more Marines complete the implantation process.

6. I will incorporate this into the next draft as I was already working on the ideas for it.

9. I will rework the specifics of their cult, the animal spirits will be more guides.

10. Now that I went looking for the reference is not in the mentioned IA, I will check the an older reference. I'm hoping it wasn't something I imagined.

11. The Hounds don't really have much the Ad Mech would want.

13. All toxins are not pollution, but almost all pollution is toxic.

16. I will ponder this for awhile. Not sure how else I can word it. I will add these details in.

 

Now to work on version 7.5.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Madwolf Shadowmane

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

version 7.5 posted. Clarifications and Enhancements made to Origins, Homeworld, Lifeblood, Chapter Cult, and Order of Battle. Tried to reduce the "Mini Primarch Syndrome" of the Sire.

 

Comments and Critiques Welcome.

 

Madwolf

[Octavulg]

The unorthodox creation of the Sire has led some more pious Chapters to suspect the Hounds of heresy. Most notably the Black Templers refuse to fight with the Hounds. Unlike the Primarchs, the Sire was not created wholesale from genetic material. He was the son of a poor scribe taken for his genetic purity. The altered gene-seed zygotes were implanted much like any other aspirant. During his physical testing, he was found to be a natural leader and a skilled strategist. His body’s acceptance of the modified zygotes combined with his natural abilities resulted in him being honored with the title of Chapter Master of the newfound Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, the Hounds of the Hunt.

 

Not sure this is necessary.

 

Imperial History is ripe with apparent inconsistencies and mysterious happenings. One of these mysteries is the 21st Founding of the Adeptus Astartes. It is strongly believed that this Founding was achieved in secret by elements of the Imperial Inquisition and the Adeptus Mechanium. The alleged purpose for this secrecy was to hide the possible unsanctioned manipulation of the gene-seed used. These radical individuals are guilty of Heresy. The heresy of trying to improve on the creations of the Emperor by making a stronger, faster, or more indestructible Space Marine.

 

The generally tolerant attitude of the Imperium toward the Cursed Founding chapters would seem to disagree with you on this.

 

At least one profoundly loyal Chapter emerged for this clandestine plot. As part of the “Cursed Founding” the Sire was created as an experiment. The Sire was implanted with five highly modified organs. The intent of this experiment was to create a faster healing Space Marine. When he survived, the Sire was trained and subjected to intense psycho-conditioning. Upon maturation and removal of his Progenoids, the Sire was given command of a squad of Inquisitorial Storm troopers. The Sire was to be groomed as the first Chapter master of this fledgling Astartes Chapter.

 

This seems an odd way to go about these things - I would have expected them to produce at least a squad at one time, if not more. After all, if you're only producing one, it's hard to tell if the mistakes are you or him.

 

At the next Rites of Remembrance the Sire addressed his genetic brothers for the last recorded time. He described the Curse and revealed that a partial cure had been found. He decreed that the Apothecaries of the Hounds would be called Bonetakers, as their new role in the Chapter was to be integral to fighting off the effects of the Curse. The Sire then raised the senior Clan Chief to the rank of Houndmaster and then he turned and walked back into the shadows and has not been seen again.

 

1) This is basically Corax

2) It only took him a hundred years?

3) What the hell would he know about genetics?

4) Seriously, this is Corax all over again.

 

The genetic material used to create the Sire was manipulated to make a tougher more resilient Astartes. The Hounds of the Hunt have the ability for limited regeneration and an accelerated metabolism. This limited regeneration allows a Hound to heal any wound that does not kill him outright. While this healing is not powerful enough to re-grow limbs, stumps will close without treatment. A byproduct of this ability is an accelerated metabolic rate. Hounds must consume three times as much food as a normal Marine and when healing this consumption is increased ten-fold. Increased aggression comes from this increased appetite and a Hound must master his aggression and appetite as they age.

 

You're giving us too much detail about these things. Cursed Founding chapters are mysterious and relatively unknown (at least, in most cases). They stand apart from the rest of the Imperium. What's wrong with them is half science and half warp-magic. Detailed analysis and them don't mix well.

 

* * *

 

You've got a hell of a lot of time devoted to exploring the weird practices they have, and you go into a lot of detail at the same time. I think you could express most of the information here in fewer words than you've used so far. This is especially the case in regard to the chapter's culture - it's not uninteresting, but there's a lot of it and it's rather derivative of various Amerindian tribes.

 

The Curse isn't uninteresting, but thickening skin doesn't sound like it'd really cause the problems you mention. What if their blood all clotted at once? Similar effect, but definitely more lethal.

 

It might be a good idea to tie their curse into their practices, if possible.

 

A look at how their curse has affected their mentality and tactics might be a good idea. If they heal quickly, do they take more risks? Do they rely more on infantry? That sort of thing.

 

It's pretty neat. :P

Edited February 1, 2011 by Octavulg

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Octavulg,

 

Thank you for your comments. That first Sidebar was written and included to try to minimize the "mini-primarch syndrome".

 

My understanding was that the genetic tampering during the cursed founding was done secretly and was not sanctioned by the Lords of Terra. I will fill this paragraph for the parts I need to keep.

 

The Sire was the first and ten years later two more marines were ready, then four and so on. The command of the Storm Trooper Platoon was to train the Sire as a leader of men under the clandestine premise from above. Basically its a way to justify the Sire becoming the first Chapter master.

 

I'm still a little fuzzy on the similarities to Corax. The Sire didn't alter the gene-seed at all and the apothecaries did most of the work. The Sire just supervised, until they tried using his blood.

 

So I should hit more of the high points with less explanation. The detail was an effort to stave off "hand wavium".

 

The previous version of the curse tied in well with the Hounds' beliefs and practices. The curse didn't work within the Universe. Being "allergic" to bionics doesn't work in Space Marines (this was the original curse)

 

I will be reviewing version 7.5 again and figure out what to remove for version 8.0.

 

Thank you again for your comments.

 

Madwolf

[Octavulg]

Thank you for your comments. That first Sidebar was written and included to try to minimize the "mini-primarch syndrome".

 

Eh. Doesn't really achieve that, IMO.

 

My understanding was that the genetic tampering during the cursed founding was done secretly and was not sanctioned by the Lords of Terra. I will fill this paragraph for the parts I need to keep.

 

I don't know that it was sanctioned, but they've worked out that it happened and appear to be prepared to deal with it.

 

Then again, these things aren't exactly clear cut.

 

The Sire was the first and ten years later two more marines were ready, then four and so on. The command of the Storm Trooper Platoon was to train the Sire as a leader of men under the clandestine premise from above. Basically its a way to justify the Sire becoming the first Chapter master.

 

Why not just have him do it the same way every other Chapter Master does - by being the best in the Chapter?

 

I'm still a little fuzzy on the similarities to Corax. The Sire didn't alter the gene-seed at all and the apothecaries did most of the work. The Sire just supervised, until they tried using his blood.

 

After overseeing experiments to restore his chapter's geneseed, he dramatically disappears forever?

 

So I should hit more of the high points with less explanation. The detail was an effort to stave off "hand wavium".

 

Handwavium and plotdevicium are the foundation of 40K.

 

The previous version of the curse tied in well with the Hounds' beliefs and practices. The curse didn't work within the Universe. Being "allergic" to bionics doesn't work in Space Marines (this was the original curse)

 

Do you necessarily want a Curse?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I don't know that it was sanctioned, but they've worked out that it happened and appear to be prepared to deal with it.

 

Then again, these things aren't exactly clear cut.

 

In the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium, the file clerk occasionally loses his keys, spills his tea over the data-slates and every once in a while somehow manages to burn the entire office down with a misplaced Lho-stick.

 

And they say the battlefield holds all the horrors of the galaxy.

 

Do you necessarily want a Curse?

 

A well written character flaw is much more interesting than any arbitrary curse of their geneseed, environment or circumstances.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

QUOTE

The Sire was the first and ten years later two more marines were ready, then four and so on. The command of the Storm Trooper Platoon was to train the Sire as a leader of men under the clandestine premise from above. Basically its a way to justify the Sire becoming the first Chapter master.

 

 

Why not just have him do it the same way every other Chapter Master does - by being the best in the Chapter?

I guess I didn't understand the original comment. I wanted to justify the Sire being chosen as the first Chapter Master. He is the best and by leading the Storm Trooper Platoon is how he got there.

 

QUOTE

I'm still a little fuzzy on the similarities to Corax. The Sire didn't alter the gene-seed at all and the apothecaries did most of the work. The Sire just supervised, until they tried using his blood.

 

 

After overseeing experiments to restore his chapter's geneseed, he dramatically disappears forever?

I went back and read the Ravenguard IA, I see the similarities. The didn't have any old tomes to pour over. The Sire never leaves the System. He doesn't head for the Eye of Terror. The Sire doesn't manipulate the gene-seed, it is unchanged, his Apothecaries found an adjunct or antidote to minimize the Curse.

 

Do you necessarily want a Curse?

I personally don't really like any of the Primarchs except Russ. We can't have a Space Wolves successor so the 21st founding allows me not to have a direct tie to a Primarch. to be in the 21st founding you have to have a curse. So, short answer is yes I do.

 

QUOTE

Do you necessarily want a Curse?

 

 

A well written character flaw is much more interesting than any arbitrary curse of their geneseed, environment or circumstances.

I'll save the character flaw for the Lords of the Dusk.

 

Madwolf

[Octavulg]

I guess I didn't understand the original comment. I wanted to justify the Sire being chosen as the first Chapter Master. He is the best and by leading the Storm Trooper Platoon is how he got there.

 

You don't need to justify it. It's pretty obvious that the first Chapter Master of any chapter was the most qualified for the job.

 

I went back and read the Ravenguard IA, I see the similarities. The didn't have any old tomes to pour over. The Sire never leaves the System. He doesn't head for the Eye of Terror. The Sire doesn't manipulate the gene-seed, it is unchanged, his Apothecaries found an adjunct or antidote to minimize the Curse.

 

Still. The parallels are there.

 

I personally don't really like any of the Primarchs except Russ. We can't have a Space Wolves successor so the 21st founding allows me not to have a direct tie to a Primarch. to be in the 21st founding you have to have a curse. So, short answer is yes I do.

 

If you want a Space Wolves successor, the obvious source for a curse would have been an attempt to stabilize and standardize the Space Wolves geneseed. Consequences from that would seem likely to be wolf-related.

[NightrawenII]

I guess I didn't understand the original comment. I wanted to justify the Sire being chosen as the first Chapter Master. He is the best and by leading the Storm Trooper Platoon is how he got there.

 

You don't need to justify it. It's pretty obvious that the first Chapter Master of any chapter was the most qualified for the job.

The problem with Sire is that he is not well-seasoned warrior or accomplished commander, in the time of the creation of Hounds. He is son of scribe and total N00b.

Giving him leadership of newly created Chapter is rather questionable move.

[Octavulg]

Cursed Founding chapters drew their chapters from within their ranks.

 

Thus, someone will be Chapter Master.

[Aegnor]

Sire could be the first one created, as a proof of concept, and then be taken away and educated (like Arnie in Twins) while the rest of the chapter are created. They could then be given a squad of trainers from another chapter and during that period it could become apparent that Sire exercises a natural charisma over the other Hounds who appear to instinctively defer to him. He could also prove himself a gifted warrior in this period and become the natural choice for Chapter Master when the time came to name one. The training squad could then suffer a convient "accident" at the hands of unknown sinister forces, ensuring no-one is aware of the Hounds details in a way that leaves them blameless. Edited February 7, 2011 by Aegnor

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

The fluff behind the 21st Founding indicates that it was done in secret. There won't have been a training cadre. There doesn't seem to be much info on how these Chapters were trained. Having the Sire lead a Inquisitorial Storm Trooper Platoon is my way of exp0laining how they trained and how they established their first Chapter Master. Thank you for your comments. I will be working on the next draft as soon as I work thru this writers block.

 

Madwolf

[BloodWulf]

Someone would have to conduct the training, that group of people, in a military setting are usually called a "cadre".

 

 

Your chapter is yours, I have one thought I wish to lend:

 

What if instead of a single Marine being created it is the equivalent of a squad. The squad is given over to an Inquisitor who is out in the thick of things often to train them up, oversee them and report on their progress. THings are still secret because the Inquisition are good at making history change.

 

So this squad can all be similar to Black Shields (taken from the DW RPG), their armor doesnt include chapter markings, its just black. Perhaps they are overseen by a Stormtrooper squad leader or even a Veteran Spacemarine to make them fight more like "Marines". Eventually (after 50 years) one of the recruits has really excelled in the areas of leadership and command. The other recruits are starting to look to him as an ad hoc leader and soon......the best of the recruits becomes the leader of a new Chapter of Marines....Anynumber of things can happen with the trainers and the Inquisitor to cover any tracks that need covering.