Index Astartes: Hounds of the Hunt

[The 13th Goat]

Its more likely a White Dwarf IA is out of date, mate. They have almost to the book been reteconned so far. I'd suggest being more flexible and cryptic with your history. Allows you to sculpt an IA better as their is less to fit in with general opinion.

[Octavulg]

13th Goat

 

The Horus Heresy stuff has been retconned to some extent (though considering how loose GW's canon is, trying to argue that Black Library publications from a large group of disparate authors are more important is definitely a weird bit o' reasoning, no matter how official they're supposed to be).

 

However, the Cursed Founding stuff hasn't been touched since.

 

* * *

 

Madwolf

 

This is how I understand the story line from the White Dwarf IA on the Cursed Founding.

 

I never really got the impression the Inquisition was involved.

 

I guess I have to come up with a reason for the Sire. The paragraphs are not meant to make the Sire out as "Awesome," but to establish how he earned the right to lead the Chapter.

 

Which is basically the same thing.

 

Look. You don't need to establish that. He leads the chapter because he is the first leader of the chapter - there had to be one, and he was best suited. Boom.

 

I guess I've kinda lost sight of the benefit part of the curse in the multiple rewrites. When I had a benefit, partial regeneration, the general opinion was it was too much of a benefit or it didn't make sense.

 

I'd rethink the whole Curse thing entirely - do you really need it in order to have unknown geneseed? After all, there are several Cursed Founding chapters that do have known geneseed, so it doesn't even seem like that sure a method.

 

My goal with this as evolved as I posted here on the Liber. My goal is a Chapter from the twenty-first founding as I don't want a direct link to a specific Primarch. Based very loosely on native american plains tribes. various canine guides/symbols/totems. The was originally going to be a lost primarch, but after reading the guides I scraped that idea and when with him being the first Chapter master/founder of the Chapter cult. So I need to develop a better reason for the Sire, a benefit for the Curse, and make the entire IA fit together better. I will continue to review this and post as I complete it.

 

Hmmm. I'd recommend ditching the Cursed Founding - just explain that their geneseed source is indeterminate, though stable, and that determining its source is a low priority at this time for the Ad. Mech (and the chapter isn't talking). Another option would be to come up with a curse that fit better with the themes you want.

 

I'd say try to figure out a unique and interesting personality for the chapter - what aspects of native beliefs and of canines are you attempting to emulate with the chapter?

 

In regard to the Sire - I don't think he really needs that much attention. Have him be venerated as the founder of the chapter, but beyond that I don't think he really needs much attention.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Octavulg

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Octavulg,

 

Thank you for your comments.

 

I want to keep the Cursed founding, and I'm working on some tweaks and benefit as well as tying it all into the character of the chapter.

 

I want them to be noble savages superstitious and totemic, previous versions I was able to relay this better. I want to include the Warrior societies of the Cheyenne and for canines, the pack mentality and the impulse to hunt.

 

I will reduce the attention given to the Sire.

 

Madwolf

Edited May 28, 2011 by Madwolf Shadowmane

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

After a long time of lurking, I have returned to my favorite project. I'm working on this slowly, so please bear with me. New revised origins are up and I will be working on the Curse section next. All comments and critiques welcome. Also to those working on the Liber Astartes Campaign, my deepest apologies for disappearing abruptly. I have no good excuse.

 

Madwolf

Edited September 6, 2011 by Madwolf Shadowmane

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Started the revision again. The origin section seems to constantly be my down fall. I will be posting a little at a time until its finished.

 

Madwolf

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I have returned. I am currently planning on restarting this Chapter from the ground up. I have decided to start by stating where I want to go with this IA (thank you Octoguide 2.0) and then follow up with a question.

 

Hounds of the Hunt (I plan to keep this name unless I can come up with one that fits better)

 

I want my Chapter to exhibit the following in no particular order:

 

-Hunters

-revere their ancestors, Each battle brother can name the previous bearer of their gene seed all the way back to their founding. The Emperor is consider the father of them all

-primary tactics are stealth and speed, like to attack from ambush, focus on assault

-fewer than ten tech marines in the whole chapter, vehicles are rare

-modified codex structure. 5 battle companies, 5 reserve companies, none are specialized. Would like to have each set linked battle/reserve (this concept I may disregard if it becomes too hard to explain)

-Chapter Master leads the veterans in a command company, fewer number of terminator suits than codex chapter (maybe thirty at the most)

-no scout company, they are mixed into the reserve companies

-chapter/company heroes belong to a squad

-they have glowing green eyes

 

And now the question, Should I start a new thread or continue to tack onto this one?

 

Madwolf

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Re-working most concepts. Brand new outline posted, see page one. Comments and critiques welcomed.

[Demus Ragnok]

First, the name. For me the name Hound is synonymous with "hunt" so "hounds of the hunt" sounds redundant. But thats just me so...

feel free to ignor my strangness.

 

You want to focus on stealth/ambush tactics but you say there are no scouts. I think scouts would be vital to those tactics. Perhaps a mention of how older battle brothers that have perfected the art of the hunt go out and scout the enemy as needed. One or three old sneeky guys could slip in and out unnoticed and give the CO the best place to set the ambush.

 

You also mention speed as a primary tactic, but they have few rhinos. To me speed means mechanization. Or are you refering to speed in short bursts during ambushes?

 

I'm rather unsure about "the curse". I understand the "wounded animal berserker" idea. But the not attacking their brothers just doesn't fit with "berserk" for me. I just feel like someone wounded to the point of going off the deep end should maybe fight until they succumb to their wounds dying the most honorable of deaths.

 

Overall I rather like the new outline.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Demus Ragnok

[Aegnor]

I admire your persistence with this chapter, brother. New outline looks like a good plan - I like the fighting to determine rank and precedence. Looks like (at this early stage of this rewrite) the persistence and time taken to go away and think on this DIY has helped you refine your ideas a lot. :)

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Thank you for the critiques and comments.

 

Demus Ragnok: I respect your opinion about the name. I may change it if I can come up with something that fits better. Believe it or not they started their original fluff as the Shadow Wolves. This go around I'm shooting for defining the Chapters character as my primary focus. The ambush/stealth attacks, but no scouts will be fleshed out as I build from the outline. I was referring to speed as in running down prey, but I see where that will have to be changed/clarified as I build from here. I'm going for more of a foot slogger/drop pod type force, large element force-marching through supposedly impassable terrain to surprise an enemy or seize tactical advantage. The reason (not included in the outline) for them not attacking their brothers is currently scent recognition which is why they dwell in packs rather than individual cells. the not attacking fellow Hounds is a sorta primal instinct. The curse part of this would be the wound is not necessarily mortal, the curse could appear from a paper cut as an example.

 

Aegnor: Thank you brother. Hopefully I will not get overly excited as I progress and rush to properly flesh out the outline. I'm beginning with the Chapter Cult as the character of the Chapter has to be nailed down. This has been my biggest failing in all of the previous versions.

 

Madwolf

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Gene-seed, Beliefs, and Recruitment sections up. There are some points which are not yet tied together, but this will be remedied with the addition of the other sections. Next I will be working on the Home world section, which should look mostly familiar to those who have read this IA before. Again thank you ahead of time to those who give their time to read this new version. Comments and critique welcome.

 

Madwolf

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

A polished updated is forthcoming. I'm currently in the process of smoothing out the sections. I'm trying to make sure everything either makes sense or is explained. I'm also identifying what I have to account for in the origins section. In every other version of this IA I have written the origin first. This time it will be last so maybe the end result will turn out better. Thank you for your time.

 

C&C welcome.

 

Madwolf

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

All sections for version 13 have now been added. I think I have covered most of the why's. I've reviewed this several times reading it out loud, so hopefully it is of better quality than some of my other attempts. Comments and Critiques welcome. Thank you for your time.

 

Madwolf

[Demus Ragnok]

I didn't give this a complete read just hit the high points. And most of what I read I like. You've really put the work into this.

 

I like the way you elaborated on the curse. Makes more since now. But do you have any ideas as to a specific biological cause for the rage. Overactive adrenals maybe. Or just gene seed tom foolery by the admech.

 

However.

 

As I mentioned before...the name. Bust out the dictionary and look around.

 

Shadow Hounds, Dire Hounds, Void Hounds, Hell Hounds, and so on.

 

And while I'm on about names. Hunt's Respite as a name for the chapter fortress, doesn't sit right for me.

 

Primitive hunter gatherer culture and the astartes from this setting call their house "respite".

 

Space Wolves stay at "The Fang". Makes since, fits the wolf motif.

 

"Respite" and hounds and hunting. I just can't make my brain like that word in the context, sorry.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Demus Ragnok: Thank you very much for the review.

 

I like the way you elaborated on the curse. Makes more since now. But do you have any ideas as to a specific biological cause for the rage. Overactive adrenals maybe. Or just gene seed tom foolery by the admech.

I blame it on geneseed tom foolery.

 

As I mentioned before...the name. Bust out the dictionary and look around.

 

Shadow Hounds, Dire Hounds, Void Hounds, Hell Hounds, and so on.

At this point, I'm gonna keep the name. In the very first version of this IA they were the Shadow Wolves. I've wanted to stay away from similarities being drawn with the World Eaters who were formerly the War Hounds. I have toyed with the idea of calling them the Wild Hunt, but I couldn't come up with a way to make it work.

 

And while I'm on about names. Hunt's Respite as a name for the chapter fortress, doesn't sit right for me.

 

Primitive hunter gatherer culture and the astartes from this setting call their house "respite".

 

Space Wolves stay at "The Fang". Makes since, fits the wolf motif.

 

"Respite" and hounds and hunting. I just can't make my brain like that word in the context, sorry.

I was gonna call it Hunt's End. In most of the previous versions I called their home the Sanctuary of the Stars. As I ponder this reply, Hunt's End might work alot better on several levels. The Life Markers are stored there as are the Dreadnoughts. Hmmm.... I'm liking Hunt's end more and more.

 

Madwolf

[Demus Ragnok]

I like Hunt's End.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I like Hunt's End.

 

The Lodge.

 

Hunting lodges anyone?

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Demus Ragnok

I like Hunt's End.

 

Cheers. Change has been made.

 

Captain Juan Juarez

The Lodge.

 

I wanted to avoid too much association with the Space Wolves. In my opinion, the Lodge sounds too much like the Fang, but thank you for your suggestion.

 

Madwolf

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I was wondering if anyone thinks i should add any sidebars. Once I get back from deployment I will be changing the chapter badge and the armor color slightly. C & C welcome.

 

Madwolf

[Octavulg]

The Hounds of the Hunt are identified by a naked canine skull. The Hounds wear many fetishes and furs their primary colors are black and yellow with red accents.

 

Nice, though with an image right below it I'm not sure the colors need to be mentioned.

 

For the Emperor…

We hunt our foes.

For the Chapter…

We honor the pack.

For Mankind…

We sacrifice our lives.

 

Italicize.

 

Origins

 

I like this section, but Cursed Founding chapters tend to be more...mysterious. Plus, my impression is that your guys aren't the sort to share much with the Inquisition. A bunch of the stuff (like the third progenoid and the chimeric geneseed) would work better in the geneseed section, IMO.

 

I'll show you what I mean:

 

"It is believd that the Hounds of the Hunt were created during the cursed 21st Founding. Several accounts of the era report a neophyte chapter of their description, and reports of the chapter's behavior would seem to confirm the genetic and temperamental instabilities so common to Marines of that unfortunate Founding. Elements of the chapter's oral history could refer to the chapter's creation at some secret Adeptus Mechanicus facility, though they may also simply be examples of the semi-mythical creation stories not uncommon among Space Marines. The chapter displays acute senses and hunting instincts uncommon even among the Adeptus Astartes, suggesting that they may indeed be products of unusual genetic experimentation.

 

In any case, records do report that the Hounds were given the planet Eametanene on the rim-ward edge of the Segmentum Obscurus on the border of Segmentum Ultima. On their naming day, the Hounds were commissioned to hunt renegades, traitors, and traitorous Adeptus Astartes near both the Maelstrom and the Eye of Terror.

 

The Hounds refuse to name their first Chapter Master, who apparently perpetrated a massacre which still influences the Hounds to this day, striking down many of his own marines in the grips of some blood-rage, including many of the chapter's Scout Company. To this day, the chapter's Scouts remain on their home world for the entirety of their training, in accordance with a decree of the second Chapter Master.

 

Even with this excess caution, the Hounds are now a depleted Chapter, probably as a result of the genetic instability common to their Founding. The chapter is reported to have begun trying to increase the size of their recruiting population by transplanting war orphans from their campaigns to their home world, though it remains to be seen if this will be effective. Still, the chapter continues to pursue its mission of hunting down the enemies of the Emperor."

 

See? More uncertain, more vague, more rumoury. Firm facts are bad when it comes to the Cursed Founding. Everything is uncertain.

 

The Curse

 

I'd combine this section with Life Blood, something like this:

 

The Hounds are thought to have been created from highly manipulated Salamander gene-stock, a claim substantiated by their physical appearance and many practices of their chapter cult. Fragmentary apothecarial records from the Hounds' early years report that they carried a third progenoid zygote, demonstrated elevated speed and stamina, and utilized acute senses to track the renegade, traitor, and chaos Adeptus Astartes, but suffered from an overly aggressive demeanor. It seems likely that they were intended to produce superior Astartes at a faster rate than usual. Considering the diminished state of the chapter, it seems likely that these successes are now tempered with serious drawbacks and instability.

 

Indeed, reports from various battlefields suggest that the Hounds frequently fly into a rage where they will tear apart anything in their path (though, to date, Imperial troops have been fortunate enough to never be in said path). The secondment of individuals to the Deathwatch and other such organizations is uncommon, and some observers have suggested the Hounds are trying to ensure that no brother is ever left in a position where he will become enraged without anyone to protect (or destroy) him.

 

The oral histories of the Hounds describe their gene-seed as coming from the “ancient fire-lizard and his two brothers," suggesting that their stock may be a chimeric amalgamation of several sources. They lack the Betcher’s gland zygote and possess a mutated Occulobe zygote which gives them their glowing green eyes.

 

And I'd move this:

The Hounds and the Salamanders maintain a respectful tolerance. This is due to the curse, the aggressive dominance instinct of the Hounds and the bastardized Promethean Cult they practice. The Salamanders have made issue with the implantation rites of the Hounds, calling them barbaric and savage in their execution. When the two Chapters fight together their fondness for humanity brings an uneasy truce for the duration of the conflict.

 

to the Chapter Cult section.

 

Eametanene is a “feral death world” with a single Pangaea continent covered by plains with scattered forest groves. The super continent is bordered by jagged mountains and volcanos. The apex predators are flightless scaled Terror Bird which produces venom so potent it causes hallucinations in Astartes.

 

The natives of Eametanene are hunter-gatherers which are formed into several loose familial tribes. The natives hunt the herds of Hexabison, a six-legged Bison-like creature, and follow the migratory pattern throughout the seasonal progression. The indigenous people constantly have to defend their temporary settlements from the Terror birds and Felinoids, feline pack scavengers. These constant threats make the young hunters of Eametanene prime candidates for recruitment into the Hounds.

 

The primitive culture of the Eametanenean people is centered on worship of the Emperor of Man in the guise of the local sun. This proto-religion stems from and ancient abandoned Ecclesiarchy mission present on the planet sometime before the Founding of the Hounds. The Cult Seers, Hound Chaplains, use the chapel to masquerade as a priest and guide the tribes without revealing their presence. In recent times the Hounds introduce the children of their serfs and war-orphans from their campaigns into the tribes in order to increase the recruitment population base.

 

The Hounds maintain their presence on Eametanene in an enormous dead volcano on northeastern edge of the super continent. This vast lodge is called Hunt’s End. Most of the Chapters facilities are underground in a series of catacombs called the Underworld. Since the Hounds honor their brothers in funeral pyres the Underworld houses the life markers, collections of individual war trophies, of the Chapter’s fallen battle brothers. The ancients of the Hounds, the venerable dreadnoughts, also dwell in the lowest levels of the Underworld where they slumber until called back to the hunt.

 

The writing could use some tightening. Try:

 

"Eametanene is a death world, whose single supercontinent's plains and forests are populated by primitive tribesmen. Jagged volcanic mountains border much of the continent. The apex predator is a flightless scaled creature known as a Terror Bird, which produces venom so potent it causes hallucinations even in the superhuman Astartes.

 

The natives of Eametanene are hunter-gatherers who are formed into several loose familial tribes. The natives hunt the herds of Hexabison, a six-legged herbivore, following the creature's migratory patterns through the seasons. The indigenous people constantly have to defend their temporary settlements from the Terror Birds and feline pack scavengers, constant threats that make the young hunters prime candidates for recruitment into the Hounds.

 

The Eametaneans worship the Emperor in the guise of the local sun, a religion which appears to stem from an abandoned Ecclesiarchal mission on the planet (which predates the Hounds' suzerainity). The Hounds' Cult Seers use the chapel to masquerade as priests and guide the tribes without revealing their presence.

 

The Hounds' Fortress-Monastery, Hunt's End, is located in an enormous dead volcano on northeastern edge of the super continent. Most of the Chapter's facilities are underground in a series of catacombs called the Underworld. Since the Hounds honor their brothers in funeral pyres the Underworld houses the war trophies of the Chapter’s fallen battle brothers. The ancients of the Hounds, the venerable dreadnoughts, also dwell in the lowest levels of the Underworld where they slumber until called back to the hunt."

 

It might be worth talking about recruitment here, too.

 

* * *

 

I like them, though you take too damn long on Combat Doctrine etc.

 

Anything you're particularly worried/trying to accomplish about or the like?

 

Also, it might make a certain degree of sense if everyone in the same clan had the same surname (or few surnames). Just an idea.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Octavulg

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Octavulg,

 

Thank you very much for your review. I will work in most of your suggestions this weekend. I will tighten up the combat doctrine. I was particularly worried about the concepts sticking together and coming across as believable. Seems after 13 tries, I got that part right. I have realized that I need to work on my naming conventions. I deeply appreciate your review. Thank you again for your time.

 

Madwolf

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Updated entire IA based on the suggestions of Octavulg. Tried to tighten up some of the other sections.

 

Madwolf

[Octavulg]

Seems pretty good. Only thing I noticed on a quick readthrough was that you say Bone Seers in one place and Apothecaries in another. I thought they were the same thing.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Octavulg,

 

They are. Found and fixed it I think. Gonna start working on a couple of sidebars and the pictures I need to do. Thank you for your review.

 

Madwolf

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Added a few sidebars.

 

Madwolf