Index Astartes: Hounds of the Hunt

[Messor]

I really enjoyed reading this one. Just so happens I have a chapter with 'Hounds' naming conventions and a loose parallel with Native American trackers/hunters. From what I read on the first two pages the Chapter has come a long way, and it looks like its been worth it. For the most part it was well connected, and fit snugly into the universe. only thing that caught my attention and hung on (I'm a 'latch-on-to-one-thing' kinda guy) was the open ended way you mention/describe the Red Hands. I feel like they might deserve inclusion in the rest of your organization, but mostly I was just left hanging with the 'Freed a brother' statement. Put a brother down to spare him the madness is really all I can assume. Out of curiosity, what codex are they played with on the table?

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Thank you for the review. About to do another read through of your Alpha Hounds IA. The Red Hands are the honored veterans of the Hounds, but they are also seen with fear as they have slain at least one of their battle brothers when he has fallen under the madness of their curse. I intend to use the Space Wolf Codex, at least until I finish a custom codex I'm working on.

 

Madwolf

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

After my lackluster submission to Greyall's DIY contest, I decided to do a little tweaking on my IA.  I have added a few things here and changed a few words (mostly for the sake of clarity).  I did rewrite the Red Hands sidebar to better convey the concept I wanted.  I went thru and fixed the sidebars and section titles.  Comments and Critiques welcome.

 

Madwolf

[Octavulg]

“Dominant Hunters”

A lot of the GW IAs had titles like "Warriors of Ultramar" or the like. You could easily do "Dominant Hunters: The Hounds of the Hunt". Though that is a lot of "hunt".

 

Also, dominant seems like a strange word choice here.

Once a century the entire Hunt gathers and in the dance and chant storytelling of the Hounds they recount their oldest legend. The Hounds act out the myth of the mysterious Dark Packmaster. This enigmatic figure has been seen by brothers of the Hunt from their Founding day to now. He is described as a tall being shrouded and hooded in a dark cloak, his glowing green eyes are the only visible feature. He appears with a pack of hunting canines. At each manifestation of this infamous figure his hounds have touched the gathered Hunt and none of the Hounds have fallen to the curse. There is no Imperial record of the Dark Huntsman being seen by anyone not of the Hunt, but his existence has a real impact on the Hounds of the Hunt.

A nice touch.

To this date the Bone Seers, Hound Apothecaries; have been unsuccessful in finding a cure for the curse. The Hounds have repeatedly petitioned the Adeptus Mechanicus for samples of their early gene-stock, but have met with refusal. This denial has frustrated the Hounds and lends to their less than cordial relationship with the Mechanicus.

I like this, though I think they should be a little less known. After all, the Cursed Founding IS pretty mysterious. Indeed, that could go for a lot of details in this. Not that they're bad, just that they seem very well understood for a Cursed Founding chapter.

 

* * *

 

I don't love 'em. But whatever the reason they didn't catch Greyall's eye, it's not because it's a bad IA. In fact, it's a pretty good IA. The major thing I'd work on is polishing your writing - improve grammar, make things sound a little more natural, that sort of thing.

 

If you're concerned they're not winning plaudits and love from every corner - don't worry. I don't get universal adoration, either. And let's face it, I'm amazingly spectacular.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Octavulg,

Thank you for the rapid response.

I was trying to come up with a better descriptor for the Hounds than "Savage Hunters" and Dominant speaks more to their character than Savage.
 

A nice touch.

Thanks, the previous version seemed too much like the Dark Angels
 

 

Quote

To
this date the Bone Seers, Hound Apothecaries; have been unsuccessful in finding a cure for the curse. The Hounds have repeatedly petitioned the Adeptus Mechanicus for samples of their early gene-stock, but have met with refusal. This denial has frustrated the Hounds and lends to their less than cordial relationship with the Mechanicus.

I like this, though I think they should be a little less known. After all, the Cursed Founding IS pretty mysterious. Indeed, that could go for a lot of details in this. Not that they're bad, just that they seem very well understood for a Cursed Founding chapter.

I don't understand what you mean by "they should be a little less known."  Could you give a few examples of this? I try real hard not too succumb to the fifth Chaos god, Laziness.
 

Spectacular? I thought you were Batman?

 

Madwolf

[Octavulg]

You don't feel Batman's spectacular? All that hanging people up by their heels, creating terror. It's a low-key kind of spectacle, but it's definitely a show.

 

Anyway, re Hunters: savage works better, I think. It's not quite the right term, though. Primal, maybe? Ancient could also work, but less well.

 

Regarding less known...there's a lot of detail. Look at the Bronze Prophets for an example, if you like. More "speculated" and a bit less detail in some areas. The Imperium doesn't know much about the Cursed FOunding chapters (or, really, about any chapter).

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I dive into my handy Thesaurus for the Dominant vs Savage vs Primal part.  Sometime tomorrow I will gander at the Bronze Prophets for parts of the Hounds two make more vague.  Thank you for your feedback.

 

Madwolf

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I plan to go through this again soon as a revision to add some polish.  So I figured I'd bring back to the fore of the Liber for some C&C. 

[Aegnor]

Skimmed it quickly just now. No real c&c, just wanted to say I admire how you've stuck at it with this IA. Reckon I've seen probably half a dozen iterations of your ideas for this chapter, and with each rewrite they've got better and better.

[LongGone]

Read the IA and skimmed through all the responses. I really like how you've formatted the article, very pleasing to the eye! It's clear you've done some serious work on this thing, and gone through a fair number of drafts before the current version. I hope to have the same dedication to my IA. 

 

One thing I wasn't totally clear on: the flaw. You mention the propensity to go into a rage when wounded. I like that, don't really consider it a flaw per se, but I like it. I think it really fits with the hound theme. Later on you mention a flaw being their failing vision in daylight. Where did this come from? I think you should take this part out and just make it so they prefer to hunt at night. You mention a quest to cure the flaw several times. Is this the vision thing, or the wounded animal thing, or another flaw that I didn't pick up on my read through?

 

All in all, I like where you are taking these guys and can't wait to see what else you have planned!

 

LG

[Sergeant Lowe]

I like the idea of the chapter but have one main critique

 

early in the article you mention that they have acute senses and then at the end mention that they have poor eyesight - to me this seems to be a contradiction

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Thank you all for your responses.  I will be posting a new version after the new year.  No major concept changes, but I will iron out all the little bits that still don't flow.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I've been pondering the direction I want to take my revision of the Hounds.  I'm gonna endeavor to make the Hounds a little less known.  In the process of trying to figure out how to do this I have stumbled over a concept that I wanted to be part of the Hounds that got lost in the 13 revisions.  I want the Hounds to "leave no one behind".  Long story short, I want them to be untrusted but known to risk their lives to help/save other Astartes.  I could use any thought and/or suggestions.  Thank you for your time. 

[blackoption]

Those seem almost mutually exclusive qualities.

 

Always going back for a lost man (regardless of chapter) would make them fairly popular to work with.  Yet you want them distrusted.  It can be done.  The "leave no man behind" is an internal chapter charactistic.  That is relatively easy to write in. As for distrusted....  what event or cause does most imperial forces have to distrust them?  Perhaps they are infamous for some failing or unpopular choice they made. But that runs against them being a relatively unknown chapter.  Perhaps they are often misidentified as a herald of doom for a sector (despite their best efforts to save the sector) and ruin always seems to arrive in their wake.  There are many ways to balance that approach, but ultimately you have to decide as to how.

[Prefect Apollyon]

That premise can work simply because they're Cursed Founding. Look at how other Chapters treat the likes of the Lamenters, they refuse to help them and never acknowledge their existence.

 

Even if they save the life of an Astartes from another Chapter they'll still be hated.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

The mistrust part of the scenario comes from them being part of the cursed founding.  Astartes that might burst into flame or sprout boney spikes, instant mistrust.  I'm looking for more of the look like demons but want to protect humanity vibe like the Salamanders.  i like the heralds of doom idea you brought up. 

[Gorkimedes]

How about they never leave a man behind but those they rescue eventually meet fates worse than what they were destined for? Sort of like the Lamenters curse but one that affects others. After a while other factions generally avoid them.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I've finished going through this for version 13.2.  Haven't posted it yet because I've run into a three paragraph roadblock.  I have decided to scrap the recover other Astartes war gear/geneseed.  There is enough going on in this IA without working that in too.  Two of the three paragraphs I need to revise give too much away about the Chapter. 

 

I will post up the new version once I conquer the offensive paragraphs.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I broke through my writer's block.  Newly polished version is now posted on page one.  Hopefully I've made some of the details from the previous version more vague.  Comments and critiques welcome. 

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I am considering some modifications to my origin section.  I figured I would bounce these ideas off of the Liber to confirm plausiblity. 

 

While I have not agreed with the training cadre concept during/just after Founding, it is the most logical means of seasoning a new Chapter.  I have been pondering how the 21st Founding Chapters were trained.  Where would the cadre come from it the whole founding was secret? So I'm pondering the idea of a cadre of Astartes with all Chapter markings blacked out.  Training the Hounds and then sometime between the secret installation where they were created and their home world they infuriate their training cadre and the cadre departs the Hounds fleet and leaves them on their own. 

 

So, what do you think? Now that I have typed this out it might be too much information about a Cursed Founding Chapter. 

[Dizzyeye01]

You could have the cadre know nothing about the changes made to the geneseed. The Cadre train the marines but then after a while they find out and leave the chapter.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I figured that because of the inherent aggressiveness of the Hounds the leader of the training cadre would eventually get tried of being challenged for the right to lead.  The deferment to the more dominant is hard-wired into the Hounds.  So if one of the Hounds challenged the Cadre Commander and the Commander lost none of the Hounds would follow him.