Titan87 Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 The Topic pretty much says it all, I was thinking of potentially taking Sicarius or a Librarian Episotlary. My list as it stands now: Lysander 10x Assault Terminators 2x Land Raiders 3x Tactical with Rhinos (Sgt. with Powerfist, Multimelta Flamer) Landspeeder squadron (2x MM+HF) Landspeeder squadron (2x MM+HF) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettothegone Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Pedro. Since you're taking combat tactics away. Using pedro would give you scoring sternguard. Placing Lysander with sternguard gives them rerolls, and also gives them a big glowing yellow sign that attacking this particular sternguard squad in H2H means you're going to get crushed. Pedro and Lysander have some of the best synergy going. How many points are you playing in? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2299515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 I agree with gettothegone here, Pedro is probably the best special character to take with Lysander because of the similar combat tactics. However, it really does depend what you want to take. Another close combat beast? Take a Captain and outfit him in Termy armour or give him a jump pack. Want to protect yourself from psychic powers? Take a Librarian. Want to boost Lysander's combat prowess for minimal investment? A dirt-cheap Chaplain will do. I do like your idea of Sicarius Titan87, the idea of Stubborn at Ld10 is pretty much better than Fearless IMO. However, we would be better placed to answer your question if you could provide us with the list you intend to use this in and the points limit. Best is pretty much completely subjective in a vacuum, but with a list and points limit some ideas do indeed start to appear 'better' than others. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2299810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan87 Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 list posted above Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2299836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettothegone Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Vulkan in that list is going to be a much MUCH higher force multiplier then Pedro would ever be.... and honestly you could drop Lysander completely and you're not going to notice the loss. Just a dose of twin linked that will make everything in your list that much more effective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2299843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 -cough- sicarius -cough- Ld10 army of stubborn -cough- Pedro is not synergy, yes it's nice to have scoring sterns but thats all he brings. More improving than syenergising IMO. Vulkan matters not, his hammer is already MCed however TLed HFs and MMs is always fun. Shrike equals fleeting lysander that can infiltrate. Khan allows his land raider to outflank with his terminator. Outflanking land raiders, repeat that a couple of times. Personally I feel ether Sicarius or shrike give the biggest boost. Shrike can add clearing power (something lysander suffers from, he can get bogged down easily) while sicarius just lets your army put up a big middle finger to the enemy regardless of what they do (stubborn makes all negative modifers get lost!). Once tryed khan, not exactly a stellar result but I'd wager a good general whose used to outflank is more able to sue this (However I still say shrike and khan combined is by far one of the deadlist first turn chargers I've ever thought of). But regardless, you pick the enemies most deadly unit and throw lysander at it. I will garentee only swarm of attacks or c'tans will being him down. In any other case just tell your opponent to just remove the unit! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2299941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 What about shrike. Then you can infiltrate that badass sternguard squad and detach shrike to go kill something big. Or send him with a assault squad as a screen and do some serous damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2299949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 The Topic pretty much says it all, I was thinking of potentially taking Sicarius or a Librarian Episotlary. My list as it stands now: Lysander 10x Assault Terminators 2x Land Raiders 3x Tactical with Rhinos (Sgt. with Powerfist, Multimelta Flamer) Landspeeder squadron (2x MM+HF) Landspeeder squadron (2x MM+HF) I agree with gettothegone here, Vulkan will be more useful with his combat tactics in this list. You will have a lot of twin-linked horrible weapons. What weapons are the Assault Terminators decked out with? All TH/SS, all LCs, or a mix? As for the HQ to go with Lysander. If you want Lysander for combat and not Stubborn then Vulkan is very good, the best choice. If you want Stubborn though consider Pedro. Yes you have no Sternguard, but I'm thinking of his Inspiring Presence special rule. +1 attack to all those Assault Terminators will just be nasty. Sicarius will also be good if you want Stubborn as then everyone is Ld10 and Stubborn, and Sicarius will give you some high intiative attacks in combat, always invaluable. Otherwise, away from the Special Characters, consider a Chaplain in Termy armour are just Cassius to accompany half your Terminator Squad. Or a Librarian with Termy armour and storm shield would be pretty good, cheap, and give you more options and supporting abilities. I wouldn't go for Shrike though, unless you're going to change your list dramatically. Where will you put him? You could infiltrate some Terminators and run one of your Land Raiders as empty, but I don't like infiltrating Terminators. So either (in no particular order): Vulkan Pedro Sicarius Chaplain in Termy armour/ Cassius Librarian in Termy armour and SS EDIT: or, for more close combat ability consider Calgar. If you use Lysander you don't get to use Calgars special rules, but he's also a close combat beast for all those power fist attacks and re-rolls to wound. But he is very expensive and with his chief ability wasted with Lysander I won't give him a glowing recommendation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2300270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 For that list above, I'd use a barebones librarian with avenger and null zone, as it's a very good all-comers option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2300291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserstole20 Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 For the cost of another HQ you should be able to get a heavy choice or two. I think a vindicator or a combi-pred would be a better use of the points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2300307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 take a command squad for lysander, give them 4 plasma guns, take a Master of the forge with a plasma pistol and put him into the quad, then buy a razorback for the squad, lysander doesn't have to join. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2300329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 take a command squad for lysander, give them 4 plasma guns, take a Master of the forge with a plasma pistol and put him into the quad, then buy a razorback for the squad, lysander doesn't have to join. But a FNP lysander is INSANE! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2300584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan87 Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 But a FNP lysander is INSANE! Yeah I am currently debating on who Lysander's companions are going to be a tricked out command squad or a unit of Assault Terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2300587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 But a FNP lysander is INSANE! Yeah I am currently debating on who Lysander's companions are going to be a tricked out command squad or a unit of Assault Terminators. I'd keep him with the Assault Terminators. While FNP would be handy, you shouldn't need it much with termy armour on. Plus, Assault Terminators are more survivable than the Command Squad and better for their points, and are the natural unit of choice to chuck in a Land Raider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2301120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 Lys is made to join with 10 tac termies + 2x cyclone. bolter drill goodness, he can fortify their position and even eat lascannon to keep them going. that's why his command squad should escort the MotF. come on, he's badass enough to take the really hard hits, so FnP won't apply most of the time anyway... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2301185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 For that list above, I'd use a barebones librarian with avenger and null zone, as it's a very good all-comers option. As an added bonus the librarian gets Stubborn, so he's pretty safe from IG psychic choirs and whatever other leadership reducing things that I'm not thinking of right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2301301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 Lys is made to join with 10 tac termies + 2x cyclone. bolter drill goodness, he can fortify their position and even eat lascannon to keep them going. that's why his command squad should escort the MotF. come on, he's badass enough to take the really hard hits, so FnP won't apply most of the time anyway... think I read somewhere he doesn't get FNP because the needles can't get past his skin! Yes, in theory he can ether fortify the HELL out of a position or knock the enemy off their's. Put mildly: what do you want? if you want to hold your objective, put lysander there. If you want to take lysander, walk him up (come on, lets be fair here shall we?). However I would say 10 tactical terminators is alot, I mean we're talking 505 if you all give them chainfists (something I would do personally because nothing says 'screw you' to tanks than 27 attacks plus 4 str10 attacks with the AP1 rule added in. Thats 27 attacks that get 2d6 penetration if they hit. I think we can easily say OVERKILL (but then again those 12 plus killa kans in planetstrike defending orks will NEVER again :cuss with you!). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2301308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycroft Holmes Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 As an added bonus the librarian gets Stubborn, so he's pretty safe from IG psychic choirs and whatever other leadership reducing things that I'm not thinking of right now. Stubborn only affects Morale checks. Pinning tests, psychic tests and generic leadership tests aren't impacted by Stubborn. Mycroft Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2301897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 As an added bonus the librarian gets Stubborn, so he's pretty safe from IG psychic choirs and whatever other leadership reducing things that I'm not thinking of right now. Stubborn only affects Morale checks. Pinning tests, psychic tests and generic leadership tests aren't impacted by Stubborn. Mycroft Stubborn prevents any negative modifiers affecting leadership IIRC, so it would work for all of the above. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2302257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 As an added bonus the librarian gets Stubborn, so he's pretty safe from IG psychic choirs and whatever other leadership reducing things that I'm not thinking of right now. Stubborn only affects Morale checks. Pinning tests, psychic tests and generic leadership tests aren't impacted by Stubborn. Mycroft Stubborn prevents any negative modifiers affecting leadership IIRC, so it would work for all of the above. Nope, reread the rule, and it does specifically reference morale and nothing else. Stubborn is way less useful than I thought it was. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2302322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 As an added bonus the librarian gets Stubborn, so he's pretty safe from IG psychic choirs and whatever other leadership reducing things that I'm not thinking of right now. Stubborn only affects Morale checks. Pinning tests, psychic tests and generic leadership tests aren't impacted by Stubborn. Mycroft Stubborn prevents any negative modifiers affecting leadership IIRC, so it would work for all of the above. Nope, reread the rule, and it does specifically reference morale and nothing else. Stubborn is way less useful than I thought it was. :angry: Fair enough, I'll trust your reading of it as I don't have my Codex on me. That sucks though if it's just morale, thought that would be helpful against Horrofexes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193549-what-is-the-best-2nd-hq-when-using-lysander/#findComment-2303227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.