What is the best 2nd HQ when using Lysander

[Titan87]

The Topic pretty much says it all, I was thinking of potentially taking Sicarius or a Librarian Episotlary.

 

My list as it stands now:

Lysander

 

10x Assault Terminators

2x Land Raiders

3x Tactical with Rhinos (Sgt. with Powerfist, Multimelta Flamer)

Landspeeder squadron (2x MM+HF)

Landspeeder squadron (2x MM+HF)

[gettothegone]

Pedro.

 

Since you're taking combat tactics away. Using pedro would give you scoring sternguard. Placing Lysander with sternguard gives them rerolls, and also gives them a big glowing yellow sign that attacking this particular sternguard squad in H2H means you're going to get crushed.

 

 

Pedro and Lysander have some of the best synergy going.

 

How many points are you playing in?

[DarkGuard]

I agree with gettothegone here, Pedro is probably the best special character to take with Lysander because of the similar combat tactics.

 

However, it really does depend what you want to take. Another close combat beast? Take a Captain and outfit him in Termy armour or give him a jump pack. Want to protect yourself from psychic powers? Take a Librarian. Want to boost Lysander's combat prowess for minimal investment? A dirt-cheap Chaplain will do.

 

I do like your idea of Sicarius Titan87, the idea of Stubborn at Ld10 is pretty much better than Fearless IMO.

 

However, we would be better placed to answer your question if you could provide us with the list you intend to use this in and the points limit. Best is pretty much completely subjective in a vacuum, but with a list and points limit some ideas do indeed start to appear 'better' than others.

[Titan87]

list posted above

[gettothegone]

Vulkan in that list is going to be a much MUCH higher force multiplier then Pedro would ever be.... and honestly you could drop Lysander completely and you're not going to notice the loss.

 

Just a dose of twin linked that will make everything in your list that much more effective.

[chapter master 454]

-cough- sicarius -cough- Ld10 army of stubborn -cough-

 

Pedro is not synergy, yes it's nice to have scoring sterns but thats all he brings. More improving than syenergising IMO.

Vulkan matters not, his hammer is already MCed however TLed HFs and MMs is always fun.

Shrike equals fleeting lysander that can infiltrate.

Khan allows his land raider to outflank with his terminator. Outflanking land raiders, repeat that a couple of times.

 

Personally I feel ether Sicarius or shrike give the biggest boost. Shrike can add clearing power (something lysander suffers from, he can get bogged down easily) while sicarius just lets your army put up a big middle finger to the enemy regardless of what they do (stubborn makes all negative modifers get lost!). Once tryed khan, not exactly a stellar result but I'd wager a good general whose used to outflank is more able to sue this (However I still say shrike and khan combined is by far one of the deadlist first turn chargers I've ever thought of).

 

But regardless, you pick the enemies most deadly unit and throw lysander at it. I will garentee only swarm of attacks or c'tans will being him down. In any other case just tell your opponent to just remove the unit!

[hazardousZERO]

What about shrike. Then you can infiltrate that badass sternguard squad and detach shrike to go kill something big. Or send him with a assault squad as a screen and do some serous damage.

[DarkGuard]

The Topic pretty much says it all, I was thinking of potentially taking Sicarius or a Librarian Episotlary.

 

My list as it stands now:

Lysander

 

10x Assault Terminators

2x Land Raiders

3x Tactical with Rhinos (Sgt. with Powerfist, Multimelta Flamer)

Landspeeder squadron (2x MM+HF)

Landspeeder squadron (2x MM+HF)

 

I agree with gettothegone here, Vulkan will be more useful with his combat tactics in this list. You will have a lot of twin-linked horrible weapons. What weapons are the Assault Terminators decked out with? All TH/SS, all LCs, or a mix?

 

As for the HQ to go with Lysander. If you want Lysander for combat and not Stubborn then Vulkan is very good, the best choice.

 

If you want Stubborn though consider Pedro. Yes you have no Sternguard, but I'm thinking of his Inspiring Presence special rule. +1 attack to all those Assault Terminators will just be nasty. Sicarius will also be good if you want Stubborn as then everyone is Ld10 and Stubborn, and Sicarius will give you some high intiative attacks in combat, always invaluable.

 

Otherwise, away from the Special Characters, consider a Chaplain in Termy armour are just Cassius to accompany half your Terminator Squad. Or a Librarian with Termy armour and storm shield would be pretty good, cheap, and give you more options and supporting abilities.

 

I wouldn't go for Shrike though, unless you're going to change your list dramatically. Where will you put him? You could infiltrate some Terminators and run one of your Land Raiders as empty, but I don't like infiltrating Terminators.

 

So either (in no particular order):

Vulkan

Pedro

Sicarius

Chaplain in Termy armour/ Cassius

Librarian in Termy armour and SS

 

EDIT: or, for more close combat ability consider Calgar. If you use Lysander you don't get to use Calgars special rules, but he's also a close combat beast for all those power fist attacks and re-rolls to wound. But he is very expensive and with his chief ability wasted with Lysander I won't give him a glowing recommendation.

[Giga]

For that list above, I'd use a barebones librarian with avenger and null zone, as it's a very good all-comers option.

[kaiserstole20]

For the cost of another HQ you should be able to get a heavy choice or two. I think a vindicator or a combi-pred would be a better use of the points.

[Nehekhare]

take a command squad for lysander, give them 4 plasma guns, take a Master of the forge with a plasma pistol and put him into the quad, then buy a razorback for the squad, lysander doesn't have to join.

[chapter master 454]

take a command squad for lysander, give them 4 plasma guns, take a Master of the forge with a plasma pistol and put him into the quad, then buy a razorback for the squad, lysander doesn't have to join.

 

But a FNP lysander is INSANE!

[Titan87]

But a FNP lysander is INSANE!

Yeah I am currently debating on who Lysander's companions are going to be a tricked out command squad or a unit of Assault Terminators.

[DarkGuard]

But a FNP lysander is INSANE!

Yeah I am currently debating on who Lysander's companions are going to be a tricked out command squad or a unit of Assault Terminators.

 

I'd keep him with the Assault Terminators. While FNP would be handy, you shouldn't need it much with termy armour on. Plus, Assault Terminators are more survivable than the Command Squad and better for their points, and are the natural unit of choice to chuck in a Land Raider.

[Nehekhare]

Lys is made to join with 10 tac termies + 2x cyclone. bolter drill goodness, he can fortify their position and even eat lascannon to keep them going. that's why his command squad should escort the MotF. come on, he's badass enough to take the really hard hits, so FnP won't apply most of the time anyway...

[FlamingDeth]

For that list above, I'd use a barebones librarian with avenger and null zone, as it's a very good all-comers option.

As an added bonus the librarian gets Stubborn, so he's pretty safe from IG psychic choirs and whatever other leadership reducing things that I'm not thinking of right now.

[chapter master 454]

Lys is made to join with 10 tac termies + 2x cyclone. bolter drill goodness, he can fortify their position and even eat lascannon to keep them going. that's why his command squad should escort the MotF. come on, he's badass enough to take the really hard hits, so FnP won't apply most of the time anyway...

 

think I read somewhere he doesn't get FNP because the needles can't get past his skin!

 

Yes, in theory he can ether fortify the HELL out of a position or knock the enemy off their's. Put mildly: what do you want? if you want to hold your objective, put lysander there. If you want to take lysander, walk him up (come on, lets be fair here shall we?). However I would say 10 tactical terminators is alot, I mean we're talking 505 if you all give them chainfists (something I would do personally because nothing says 'screw you' to tanks than 27 attacks plus 4 str10 attacks with the AP1 rule added in. Thats 27 attacks that get 2d6 penetration if they hit. I think we can easily say OVERKILL (but then again those 12 plus killa kans in planetstrike defending orks will NEVER again :cuss with you!).

[Mycroft Holmes]

As an added bonus the librarian gets Stubborn, so he's pretty safe from IG psychic choirs and whatever other leadership reducing things that I'm not thinking of right now.

 

 

Stubborn only affects Morale checks. Pinning tests, psychic tests and generic leadership tests aren't impacted by Stubborn.

 

Mycroft

[DarkGuard]

As an added bonus the librarian gets Stubborn, so he's pretty safe from IG psychic choirs and whatever other leadership reducing things that I'm not thinking of right now.

 

 

Stubborn only affects Morale checks. Pinning tests, psychic tests and generic leadership tests aren't impacted by Stubborn.

 

Mycroft

 

Stubborn prevents any negative modifiers affecting leadership IIRC, so it would work for all of the above.

[FlamingDeth]

As an added bonus the librarian gets Stubborn, so he's pretty safe from IG psychic choirs and whatever other leadership reducing things that I'm not thinking of right now.

 

 

Stubborn only affects Morale checks. Pinning tests, psychic tests and generic leadership tests aren't impacted by Stubborn.

 

Mycroft

 

Stubborn prevents any negative modifiers affecting leadership IIRC, so it would work for all of the above.

Nope, reread the rule, and it does specifically reference morale and nothing else. Stubborn is way less useful than I thought it was. :(

[DarkGuard]

As an added bonus the librarian gets Stubborn, so he's pretty safe from IG psychic choirs and whatever other leadership reducing things that I'm not thinking of right now.

 

 

Stubborn only affects Morale checks. Pinning tests, psychic tests and generic leadership tests aren't impacted by Stubborn.

 

Mycroft

 

Stubborn prevents any negative modifiers affecting leadership IIRC, so it would work for all of the above.

Nope, reread the rule, and it does specifically reference morale and nothing else. Stubborn is way less useful than I thought it was. :angry:

 

Fair enough, I'll trust your reading of it as I don't have my Codex on me. That sucks though if it's just morale, thought that would be helpful against Horrofexes.