Support Dreads

[pryor]

I've did a search but must have missed a previous forum on this topic (the comparison is just screaming for one).

I've got 2 dreads armed with TL Lascannons & Missile Launcher to act as my mobile support base.

Obviously I've got them armed against AV threats but I was just thinking that instead of the Missile Launcher maybe I should use the TL Autocannon.

The benefits of the TL Autocannon would be 2 high strength shots with re-rolls to hit.

The benefits of the Missile Launcher would be that extra point of Strength, better AP & also the ability to fire Frag (but I don't really rate frag missiles anymore given the rules on hitting with blast markers & no AP).

Any opinions?

[Jackelope King]

Rifleman Dreads with 2x TL-Autocannons just consistently impress me. Four twin-linked shots at BS4 and S7 are a consistent threat to light armor, infantry, and MCs all across the board. You can consistently put out wounds against just about everything and provide a serious threat to anything AV12 or lighter. All on a semi-mobile, decently-armored, relatively-cheap package.

 

So yeah, Autocannons and Dreads were made for each other.

[minigun762]

The RifleDread has been getting ALOT of support on this forum, so much so that its a very common staple for Codex Marines these days and in many ways has replaced the older shooty Dread that you're currently using (Las/ML).

 

If you're still going to keep the TL Lascannon, I would take an TL Autocannon. Sure it can't hurt AV14 but a Missile Launcher can barely scratch it anyway so its a waste to be firing at one. Target AV13 or less and you'll be fine.

[DarkGuard]

The Rifleman Dread has got a lot of support here, and has a reputation of turning any lightly armoured tank into swiss-cheese. Considering that 40K is now very mechanised, with lots of mounted in infantry in typically light vehicles, the amount of S7 shots a Rifleman Dread can put out with near pinpoint accuracy at the range it can and its comparatively low cost makes it an amazing, rivalled only by the combi-pred.

 

I unfortunately, do not own 2 TL-autocannon arms, so instead I use a lascannon and DCCW/HF Dread. The lascannon can take down light vehicles all right with a higher strength than the autocannon, while the DCCW/HF counter threats in my army's backfield. Of course, for the cost I'd prefer the Rifleman, but my advise to you be that just because a Dread is fire support, doesn't mean it must have two long ranged weapons. In some situations it's better to keep the DCCW, just in case.

[Newtoncain]

The Rifleman Dread has got a lot of support here, and has a reputation of turning any lightly armoured tank into swiss-cheese. Considering that 40K is now very mechanised, with lots of mounted in infantry in typically light vehicles, the amount of S7 shots a Rifleman Dread can put out with near pinpoint accuracy at the range it can and its comparatively low cost makes it an amazing, rivalled only by the combi-pred.

 

I unfortunately, do not own 2 TL-autocannon arms, so instead I use a lascannon and DCCW/HF Dread. The lascannon can take down light vehicles all right with a higher strength than the autocannon, while the DCCW/HF counter threats in my army's backfield. Of course, for the cost I'd prefer the Rifleman, but my advise to you be that just because a Dread is fire support, doesn't mean it must have two long ranged weapons. In some situations it's better to keep the DCCW, just in case.

 

Ageis defense kit my friend = you get 2 duel ACs that can easily modified to fit a dread.

[minigun762]

I've said before that the best place for a Missile Launcher on a Dread is alongside a Plasma Cannon. The focus of the Dread switches from anti-tank to anti-MC/Heavy infantry. S7 blast + Krak Missile will reliably put wounds on an MC or MEQ and against Terminators or basic infantry, swap out the Krak for a Frag blast for 2 BS4 blasts on the squad.

Plus if you have to fire at a transport, S7 and S8 aren't useless.

[DarkGuard]

The Rifleman Dread has got a lot of support here, and has a reputation of turning any lightly armoured tank into swiss-cheese. Considering that 40K is now very mechanised, with lots of mounted in infantry in typically light vehicles, the amount of S7 shots a Rifleman Dread can put out with near pinpoint accuracy at the range it can and its comparatively low cost makes it an amazing, rivalled only by the combi-pred.

 

I unfortunately, do not own 2 TL-autocannon arms, so instead I use a lascannon and DCCW/HF Dread. The lascannon can take down light vehicles all right with a higher strength than the autocannon, while the DCCW/HF counter threats in my army's backfield. Of course, for the cost I'd prefer the Rifleman, but my advise to you be that just because a Dread is fire support, doesn't mean it must have two long ranged weapons. In some situations it's better to keep the DCCW, just in case.

 

Ageis defense kit my friend = you get 2 duel ACs that can easily modified to fit a dread.

 

Thanks I'll have to look into that when I have the time :P

[Giga]

Rifleman Dreads with 2x TL-Autocannons just consistently impress me. Four twin-linked shots at BS4 and S7 are a consistent threat to light armor, infantry, and MCs all across the board. You can consistently put out wounds against just about everything and provide a serious threat to anything AV12 or lighter. All on a semi-mobile, decently-armored, relatively-cheap package.

 

So yeah, Autocannons and Dreads were made for each other.

This.

 

Also, running 2x rifleman dreads = pure gold.

[ShinyRhino]

I recently picked up a SLEW of the old Chaos Dread autocannon arms, and plan to shave off the few arrows and the big screaming skull on the side for use on my loyalist Dreads.

I was hoping to pair them with wither a DCCW/HF, or with a missile launcher. I use Venerable Dreads exclusively (for the Venerable rule and the BS/WS 5). Lascannons get cost-prohibitive on a VenDread, so I figured the TLAC+ML was a good middle ground for a fire support Dread. I'd go double-TLAC, but I don't fancy spending Forgeworld prices on arms that may show up warped or pitted (FW quality-control seems to have a rather dubious reputation right now), and don't like the sheer size of the Aegis Defense Line cannons.

 

Is a TLAC/ML a viable "Poor Man's Rifleman"?

[DerekLee688]

I've never run a ML on a dread, so I'm more than a little biased agianst it. I just don't think a 115pt. unit is a proper platform for a single ML shot. Call me irrational, I'll probably agree with you.

 

I have no doubt TL-lascannons perfrom well. The finest anti AV12 weapon in our arsenal considering how hard it is to get within 12" of a skimmer transport to nuke it with a MM. However, when it comes to ML I want two shots whenever possible. The day Dreads get typhoon launchers or cyclone launchers I'll run them, I promise.

 

What works for me might not work for you. In these cases, other peoples testemonials aren't as useful as you asking yourself whats better for your army. You need anti tank firepower? You can get it from the fast attack through attack bikes or speeders, elites through dreads, or heavies through devistators/predators. Can it be done cheaper AND better?

 

At the end of the day it's heavily armored waker with two of the strongest shots we got, if you assembled your army where nothing else can do its job as well as it, then so be it.

[Race Bannon]

I run an AC/ML combo and it's great. It's definitely a great anti-infantry platform that can go against light armor in a pinch. Really, you can throw it against AV13 with little fear but needing some luck. There are better weapons for AT work but to have a resilient mobile weapon platform on the cheap (relatively) is hard to pass up.

 

At the same time, I wouldn't bring one to every game. It really depends on the opponent. So if you are looking for a "golden combo", you won't find it from a Dreadnought.

[minigun762]

Who uses the Plasma Cannon and how does it work for you? It seems like a very nice all purpose weapon and with no overheats as a bonus.

[ShinyRhino]

Who uses the Plasma Cannon and how does it work for you? It seems like a very nice all purpose weapon and with no overheats as a bonus.

 

Haven't touched it yet, since it was formerly a very expensivepart from Forgeworld. I'll likely start using one as soon as I get my new Venerable Dread kit.

 

The one thing I'm not a huge fan of is the fact that it's a scatter weapon with a small blast template. You have the potential of wasting the shot with a scatter roll. Direct-fire weapons feel more reliable to me, especially since I use Venerables that almost never miss.

[minigun762]

The one thing I'm not a huge fan of is the fact that it's a scatter weapon with a small blast template. You have the potential of wasting the shot with a scatter roll. Direct-fire weapons feel more reliable to me, especially since I use Venerables that almost never miss.

 

I wonder what your chance of scattering is for a BS5 small blast?

 

EDIT: Lets see you have a flat 33% chance to hit to begin with, so that leaves a 67% chance to scatter.

Of that 67%, you will roll a 5 or less 10/36 times or 27.8% of the time. 27.8% x 67% = 18.6% chance.

This means you have a 33% + 18.6% = 52% chance to land on target with 0 scatter.

 

Now you have a 11/36 chance to roll a 6 or 7 or 30.6% of the time. 30.6% x 67% = 20.5% chance

This means you have a 33% +18.6% + 20.5% = 72.5% chance to be within 2" of target.

 

Does that look right?

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

The one thing I'm not a huge fan of is the fact that it's a scatter weapon with a small blast template. You have the potential of wasting the shot with a scatter roll. Direct-fire weapons feel more reliable to me, especially since I use Venerables that almost never miss.

 

I wonder what your chance of scattering is for a BS5 small blast?

me too, mathammer!

[ShinyRhino]

The one thing I'm not a huge fan of is the fact that it's a scatter weapon with a small blast template. You have the potential of wasting the shot with a scatter roll. Direct-fire weapons feel more reliable to me, especially since I use Venerables that almost never miss.

 

I wonder what your chance of scattering is for a BS5 small blast?

 

EDIT: Lets see you have a flat 33% chance to hit to begin with, so that leaves a 67% chance to scatter.

Of that 67%, you will roll a 5 or less 10/36 times or 27.8% of the time. 27.8% x 67% = 18.6% chance.

This means you have a 33% + 18.6% = 52% chance to land on target with 0 scatter.

 

Now you have a 11/36 chance to roll a 6 or 7 or 30.6% of the time. 30.6% x 67% = 20.5% chance

This means you have a 33% +18.6% + 20.5% = 72.5% chance to be within 2" of target.

 

Does that look right?

 

Hmmm, that does look right from my English-major POV. :wink:

Not too bad odds, considering yu can probably cover 3-5 models with the small blast, depending on target size and a direct hit. Pretty good odds for a S7, AP2 weapon.

[Justicar Valius]

Yup which is why im happy sitting next to my ven dred right now(came today, 3 days early!)

 

Or course I can't have venerable but maybe by the end of 2010 i will, who knows?

[Chengar Qordath]

The one thing I'm not a huge fan of is the fact that it's a scatter weapon with a small blast template. You have the potential of wasting the shot with a scatter roll. Direct-fire weapons feel more reliable to me, especially since I use Venerables that almost never miss.

 

I wonder what your chance of scattering is for a BS5 small blast?

 

EDIT: Lets see you have a flat 33% chance to hit to begin with, so that leaves a 67% chance to scatter.

Of that 67%, you will roll a 5 or less 10/36 times or 27.8% of the time. 27.8% x 67% = 18.6% chance.

This means you have a 33% + 18.6% = 52% chance to land on target with 0 scatter.

 

Now you have a 11/36 chance to roll a 6 or 7 or 30.6% of the time. 30.6% x 67% = 20.5% chance

This means you have a 33% +18.6% + 20.5% = 72.5% chance to be within 2" of target.

 

Does that look right?

The math itself is solid, but beyond calculating the odds of various scatter distances it's pretty hard to really mathhammer how effective a scatter weapon will be; far too much depends on how the target unit is deployed. Depending on formation, a 2" scatter could produce a total miss, or a max scatter could be more effective than no scatter at all. That's not to mention that if you're shooting at a unit that's as spread-out as possible then plasma cannon shots can usually only hit one model unless they scatter in a particularly lucky way.

[minigun762]

I think one of the best things for mounting a PC on a Dread is no chance of an overheat.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

give me a las/ml anyday over those fancy new rifle dreads

[Brother Captain Josef]

Unless I equip my libby with vortex of doom the dccw is the only S10 thing I can field so I'm reluctant to give it up for a ML or even the AutoC. Having my dread immobilised and then charged by a nob biker squad only to have it face plant the warboss amused me so much I had to have a little sit down...

 

I run my dred with the plasma cannon - i converted it from the asscann arm (wish it was the TL LasCann though :lol: ) and dev plasma cann and I have been very happy with it's performance against non AV targets but shines vs sv 2+ troops and am happy to be quoted on that.

 

Against AV targets the assault cannon's rend ability gives it the same penetration power of the TL lascann and has the added benefit of mauling infantry it's only drawback is range. @24" that transport has likely done it's job anyways, hence the love for the 'rifleman' pattern dread, it's the best of boths and I can see the potential when fielded in pairs...

[Syphid]

They're called Mortis Dreadnoughts.

[DerekLee688]

In this case Mortis is all double weapon dreads. Rifle only pertians to double Autocannon.

[glsn]

I recently picked up a SLEW of the old Chaos Dread autocannon arms, and plan to shave off the few arrows and the big screaming skull on the side for use on my loyalist Dreads.

I was hoping to pair them with wither a DCCW/HF, or with a missile launcher. I use Venerable Dreads exclusively (for the Venerable rule and the BS/WS 5). Lascannons get cost-prohibitive on a VenDread, so I figured the TLAC+ML was a good middle ground for a fire support Dread. I'd go double-TLAC, but I don't fancy spending Forgeworld prices on arms that may show up warped or pitted (FW quality-control seems to have a rather dubious reputation right now), and don't like the sheer size of the Aegis Defense Line cannons.

 

Having a twin linked weapon on a venerable platform never made a lot of sense to me. You already hit on twos, why reroll? Yes, 1/6 times you'll roll a one, but my personal philosophy says that those points can be better spent elsewhere.

[Captain Idaho]

I think one of the best things for mounting a PC on a Dread is no chance of an overheat.

 

Fear factor also. Thantoes demonstrated a Venerable Plasma Cannon Dreadnought is a scary prospect, getting a few kills every even when scattering, with decent amounts of kills when being on target (which is surprisingly alot with BS5).