Worth playing Chaos now?

[prophaniti13]

Hello everyone...

 

...I've been playing Chaos exclusively for many years now. I've been through many Codex, played in tournaments (seriously and with friends). I gave 40k a hiatus for reasons based on the cost needed for modeling+painting and the time commitments needed.

 

My army(s) which consisted of around 5k points Black Legion, mixed with World Eaters and Death Guard, along with around 2k points of Blood Pact (used as Traitor Guard with the old Lost and the Damned lists) are now sitting on my shelf collecting dust. I even have a forge world Baneblade with that Blood Pact army.

 

I have since gotten back into 40k and picked up the new Codex. Now, not to sound like a spoiled brat or someone who has stated things which have already been stated since I know there's been a lot of talk on these forums about the new Codex and how everything has changed, but really, I'm wondering what can I possibly do with this new 'Dex?

 

Perhaps I need some motivation? Perhaps to put in a few games to get some old spark of life back into me? It just seems my army is so illegal nowadays, and with the lackluster support for legion specific armies I'm at a loss for making an army which is truly "fluffy".

 

Also, what changes do people find useful in this new book? What can I field which will have a positive effect on the battlefield? Looking at what's available it seems everything has been toned down with A LOT less customization for chaos lords+princes and chosen. Even possessed got nailed hard by the nerf-bat...

 

I'm really at a loss for words...and I don't want to seem like I'm complaining. The glory days are over, that's fine, I don't want to sit and sulk about it, it was bound to happen eventually. I just would like to know what I can do with these new changes that can makes things turn out for the better?

[Zeller]

I'd suggest heading to the CSM army list section for finding what is effective or searching using that squads name as a search term to pull up relavent threads.

 

You will tend to see prince HQs, termicide squads for elites (deepstriking suicide combi-melta squads), plague marines and zerkers which should be fine for you, and oblits in small squads.

 

USEFUL:

1. I think the changes from terminator armor upgrades to champions to simply having a terminator entry was a good move. The previous system was bulky and confusing at times in my opinion.

 

2. The simplicity of making cult squads versus adding the cost for marks and such is certainly ocnvenient.

[Corpse.]

Versatility of the global rules got better as opposed to the codex being toned down.

 

Infiltrating chosen can do much. Deep strike is not so hazardous (mishaps table). Our prince and greater daemon choices are cheap compared to what others must pay for similar monsters. Our tanks are similar if not better then loyalists in many ways. (Including lash, to help our vindicator be superior to the enemies vindicator)

 

Our predator with havoc launcher is more shooty. Our havocs can be very mean at short range with rapid fire guns/assault guns. We can have cheaper land raiders, and the somewhat notorious 6 land raider 2000 point army is possible. (I use a friends army... I'm looking at you mutt I know you browse here still)

 

We're in the green in many areas. The most complaints you will hear constantly are:

1) Lords are inferior to similar cost Princes and warptime sorcerers, their daemon weapons are too dangerous to use.

2) Spawns are awful for their cost, and you give away free killpoints with gift of chaos.

3) Dreads going crazy makes them no more then melee-only dreadnoughts and maybe missile launcher, fragging your own dudes when it zerks.

4) Possessed not worth it these days. (I disagree, but the finer points in making an army that depends on them is really slim)

5) Chaos bikes cost too much. (we get icons and we get +1 attack in melee compared to loyalists + daemonbomb so I disagree sorta)

6) Space Wolves compared to us is a similar set, but with superior units in some sections. (I still say that our troops are superior)

7) No 'true' cult armies exist anymore, and fluff players have no bonuses like the previous codex offered.

8) Raptors 'might' be overpriced, whupee 2 points more than a loyalist and we get icons+meltas in our unit.... (sarcasm)

9) Not a big fast attack selection.

10) They took our daemons away!

 

In no specific order really.

[Brother Nihm]

You can always opt to play Chaos using C:BA (the old one, soon the new one) or C:SW. You won't be the first. :D

 

As an example, there is a grand total of 4 Chaos players left in my gaming club (out of 16) and only 1 of them still use C:CSM.

One DA guy also switched from C:DA to C:SW upon its release because he thinks that it represents Deathwing better than C:DA, go figure.

 

The 4.5 ed. test-bed codexes are outdated and it shows, but that is not to say you cannot have fun with them though. There's always the possibility of using Count-As.

[Legatus]

My army(s) which consisted of around 5k points Black Legion, mixed with World Eaters and Death Guard (...)

 

Also, what changes do people find useful in this new book? What can I field which will have a positive effect on the battlefield?

 

A few things that got better:

 

- Basic Chaos Space Marines. They now come with both a boltgun AND boltpistol and close combat weapon. On top of that each Marine comes with frag and krak grenades. They can take on AV12 in combat, they can assault in cover, they can rapid fire and still get two attacks in combat.

 

- Khorne Bersrkers. WS5 and furious charge at a bargain price make for one very destructive unit on the charge.

 

- Plague Marines. Now with "Feel no Pain". And Boltgun/BP/CCW and Grenades of course.

[prophaniti13]

Thanks for the help guys!

 

Always good to get a bit of a morale boost and knowing not all is lost :D

 

 

I see a bunch of the rules for marked squads got thrown around, it seems (and I know I can't put down rules on this board) that the World Eater's chainaxes got their rules removed. As far as I remember they caused rending back in the day?

 

Possessed really don't seem worthwhile at all now that their powers are randomized :P

 

Here's another change I saw which really has me worried, the war gear section for HQ is basically null and void. As someone who's used a daemonprince in the past (with tons of upgrades), really there wasn't anything that could beat him 1 on 1. As having a friend with demonhunters goes (Book of Names, boooo), with a lack of those upgrades it seems things aren't as sunny in that area of the woods. I may just take a special character like Typhus or Abaddon (points permitting), instead of making my own HQ choice.

[Lord of Worms]

Im a Thousand Sons player, and Ive basically given up on 40k for now; its just an exercise in frustration. I still work on the army so that its ready and uber blinged when it will be playable again, but I dont bother playing with it. I ve been playing Epic, BFG and Necromunda recently.

[Natanael]

I think CSM have a lot of good stuff still. It is just the focus of the army that changed. Instead of having überkilly DPs and Lords you now have to use them as support while your troops do the killing. A DP, unmarked, with warptime, is a great counter-assault unit and a threat to gunline-squad for example, but the real threat comes from berzerker-charge, CSM-driveby and stuff like that.

 

just a few thoughts...

[Kable]

I think CSM have a lot of good stuff still. It is just the focus of the army that changed. Instead of having überkilly DPs and Lords you now have to use them as support while your troops do the killing. A DP, unmarked, with warptime, is a great counter-assault unit and a threat to gunline-squad for example, but the real threat comes from berzerker-charge, CSM-driveby and stuff like that.

 

I agree. The only problems i think of when reading the codex is that the cult choices are now gone and the Daemon prince close combat weapon as his standard weapon!? Come on, honestly! A hulking warp spawned killing machines get a CCW as his only choice. He SHOULD have a Daemon weapon as standard. But that's just my opinion.

 

Cheers

[JamesI]

I think CSM have a lot of good stuff still. It is just the focus of the army that changed. Instead of having überkilly DPs and Lords you now have to use them as support while your troops do the killing. A DP, unmarked, with warptime, is a great counter-assault unit and a threat to gunline-squad for example, but the real threat comes from berzerker-charge, CSM-driveby and stuff like that.

 

I agree. The only problems i think of when reading the codex is that the cult choices are now gone and the Daemon prince close combat weapon as his standard weapon!? Come on, honestly! A hulking warp spawned killing machines get a CCW as his only choice. He SHOULD have a Daemon weapon as standard. But that's just my opinion.

 

Cheers

Considering he's a monsterous creature, I think the CCW is good enough. Why risk the 1/6 chance to smack yourself with a demon weapon with someone who already rips through most stuff pretty easy?

[Brother Nihm]

I don't think that the issue is with the mechanics, I think it is with the fluff. And in that vein, being able to take two princes is quite daft. ;)

[Brother Hadafix]

All you need is a couple of DPs with lash, some Berserker's and PMs add a few Oblits and your about done.:P

[Wolfbiter]

@OP: If you play a Black Legion-Nurgle-Khorne mix, I don't foresee you having problems with that part of your army. I haven't played Berzerkers under the latest rules, but regular Chaos Marines are quite good (bolter-pistol-ccw-grenades makes them very versatile) and Plague Marines are outstanding at surviving small arms fire.

 

Unfortunately, no rules for traitor guard in the new codex, sorry. You might have to decide if its worth getting into Apocalypse rules to use them and your Baneblade.

 

I just won my first game with my Alpha Legion under the new Codex, and I think I'm finally getting them to the point where I'm satisfied with the way they play, despite lack of Legion-specific rules. Mainly, I had to build up bigger numbers of troops and increase the size of my Chosen squad, (so the Chosen survive longer when infiltrating and outflanking) and the army started to "click" again for me.

 

However, my poor Dreadnaught has suffered terribly under the current Codex. He's been the mascot of my army since second edition, and under previous rules he would go nuts and hurt my own force sometimes but still do a lot of damage to the enemy. Now he seems to constantly roll fire frenzy and shoot my own forces, or blood rage at the wrong time and run around in circles. Oh well, I still won a game last weekend despite him annihilating 4 of my 5 Havocs on my first turn.

 

My 5 Terminators, though, have been outstanding. They broke 2 boyz mobs Sunday in hand to hand, and one even survived a charge by a Nobz mob with big choppas until the end of the game.

[prophaniti13]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

 

 

I saw those changes to the dreadnought rules. I own two personally, and used to use them in 500point games with upgrades so they were at least a *little* more durable. Now I don't think I'll ever field one since I feel it's just going to kill my own guys all the time.

 

 

In terms of the Traitor Guard. I might just be sticking to apocalypse games for now, since I just read the "fairly" new changes to the Baneblade with that gigantic pie-plate blast.

 

My two opponents I play the most often are Tau and a Guard/Daemonhunter mix. The Tau I can deal with, and I might just take a bunch of Thousand Sons with AP3 to fight the GKs. Or I could send in the Berzerkers/Termies with MoK (I just don't like throwing away termie units because of their cost, and GKs seem to murder most things in CC especially with that grand master)