terminatorAM Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 I have a love for Tact Termies even if no one else does and i am tring to make a somewhat competitive all-comers list around some of them. I play at 2000pnts and am using 3 mounted tact squads as a base of the army and am planning to use a squad of 10 termies w/ Lysander and a libby in TDA as the main part of the list. I can combat squad them as long as im not playing kill points or split them into shooty combat squad w/ heavies and libby and cc led by lysander possibly in a LRC. but what about the rest of the army? what supports terminators the best? I was thinking 2 shooty dreads or would an assault squad work better or perhaps speeders or preds? any advice welcome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 but what about the rest of the army? what supports terminators the best? Assuming you are running them with CMLs, a few things come to mind. 1) Need for AP2. You have the rest covered but suffer against other units like Terminators. 2) Anti-AV14. Krak Missiles and Power Fists are enough anti-armor for most units but you'll need Melta or the equivalent for knocking out Land Raiders. 3) Templates. Firing at a target outside of cover, you should have little problem taking out horde squads (20 S4 shots and 4 S4 blasts add up). However you might consider some Flamers or other cover denying weapons to handle those units with an improved cover save shooting from across the board. 4) Anti-transport. Krak Missiles are good enough for knocking out transports but you hate to waste all those Storm Bolters shooting at a Rhino. I think that MM/HF Speeders solve alot of these problems. You can also deck out your Tac squads to fulfil these same roles. Combi-Predator or RifleDreads really help with the #4 issue as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2301430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
garreth Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Currently I'm assembling such a roster: Lisander 10 Terminators with 2 CML, 1 chainfist 10 Terminators with 2 AC, 1 chainfist 10 Terminator assault squad with TH+SS 2*10 Tactical squad with lascannon, meltagun, teleport homer, Rhino Lisander go with CML terminators, granting re-rolls for bolters and anti-tank punch. Termie with 2 AC, can handle armor by themselves IMO. Assault termie here for cover to tac termie and for handling heavy-CC enemy units. Tac squads hold objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2301624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I'd go for Las/Plas Razorbacks with five man tactical squads, Dakka Preds and MM/HF Speeders Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2301662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithril hound Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I would say that TH/SS termis support tac termis, as they draw fire and pack a punch(but im just a terminator fan thru and thru so you may wana get a second opinion). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2301700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Terminators have a few problems. 1: They can't handle AV 13-14 very well until they're up in the grille. 2: They are footsloggers. 3: They're expensive. A few ways to complement terminators is to cover up some of their weaknesses. How I would do so. 1: Land Speeders. 4 or 6 with Mmeltas should suffice. 2: Long range tanks/artillery. You'll need to be able to access problem spots quickly, and when terminators can't reach those spots, your big guns can intervene. As long as you have your flanks covered, Terminators can cause serious problems for whatever they're hitting, as you undoubtedly know. Just be sure to have some speedy units in your army to counteract your lack of speed and you'll be fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2301718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminatorAM Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 to counter the footslogging ive included the libby w/ gate. i plan on CS so he can take the heavys out to destroy...anything while Lysander takes the other half out of an LRC for cc. i know it isnt the same as assault termies but lately they have been the all too common staple of marine armies and i really dont like going with the popular trend at the cost of my army's character/dignity, so i dont have assault termies or plan on taking them so ive come up with alternatives in the form of supporting HQs, it should work just as well for its purpose cause lets face it: a squad of TH/SS termies w/ HQ is so overkill its rediculus, the only thing theyre even with is Apocalypse's Angron and retinue of greater daemons sorry if that seems like a rant but i really dont like how TH/SS termies is everyone's end-all/solve-all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2301760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Possibly you could have a squad of sniper scouts. Give them camo cloaks, put them in a ruin boltered by Lysander's Bolter defences rule and you'll have a squad with a 2+ cover save. Seems to me like sniper scouts benefit the most from Bolter Defences. They only have BS3 but can cause pinning, possibly pinning a unit that you don't want your termies to have to deal with, and just generally adding in some extra shots in support. Just an idea. They can support your termies and make the most of Lysander's abilities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2301782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattison Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 i really dont like how TH/SS termies is everyone's end-all/solve-all seconded Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2301822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warprat Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I have been using a 4 Tacs + 2 Termie foot army against my playing partner Tau. 2 black reach sets + a couple Tac squads. I usually add in a couple Gating Librarians w/Avenger. Sometimes I add a dreadnought. I have read about how badly foot armies and tacs and tactical termies do, so I decided amongst a number of other reasons, to play them. My playing partner is Tau (with all the trimmings), so perhaps an even greater challenge... I wanted to learn how to maximize the basics before I started adding stuff. I was not disappointed. At first I lost all my games getting the feel for what my squads could do while gaining a healthy respect for my opponent and Tau fire power, then I started tying, now I usually win. I would say that in general, my army is inferior in most ways. I lack protected mobility, speed and long range vehicle poping fire power. What I have is bolters, storm bolters, power fists (but only on the termies) and flamers (or avenger). I do proxie the missile launchers as plasma cannons. Perhaps my biggest asset is just the large numbers of bodies in good armor. How do I ever manage to win a game? Mostly I win through remembering my strenghts and weaknesses and playing to them. Foot does not play like a mech list. I have learned to set up differently, and play differently. Refused flank becomes very important, because I do not have the mobility to concentrate easily. I want the enemy to come to me. I set up second if I can, to Refuse Flank where I can control objectives and battle. I am careful when setting up terrain and objectives, keeping my reduced mobility in mind. Against superior fire power, I have to conserve my strenght and hide during the early turns, then come out and take nearby objectives later. If I just walk my squads up piecemeal or in Napolionic fashion, I'm going get slaughtered. I have learned to outwit my opponent in the setup phase, and make good on it during the battle. If I setup well, the game will be mine to win, even if I just play fairly well. I try to concentrate my power on one section with multiple squads hitting at the same time, with support if possible. I have some templates in my list to make the enemy spread his formations. When I charge him, I am able to concentrate more guys than he can defend with. Anything that gives me a form of mobilty is gold. Heavy weapons and storm bolters are good. Gating Librarians and teleporting termies can be OK. But beware deepstrike scatter and piecemeal reinforcements. They can give you mobility, but hand your opponent an easy victory if you do not use them wisely. Usually the threat of them possibly being used is more important then actually using them. As far as what you should take in your army... I would say 10 termies, 3 tacs w/rhinos make a great core. If you add in a Land Raider you can have some anti tank, and the option to split your terminators into two squads, one with both heavy weapons, and the othrer riding in the LR. The LR can fire both twin linked las cannons at 2 different targets. Or, you can walk your termies and follow your rhinos, looking to pick up straglers. The ramp can put them back in the fight, at the same time the rhinos unload. A scout squad w/storm would be good. 1/2 the scout squad can stand back guarding from inside the LR, while the assualty part goes forward. Or deploy the guarding half into good cover. You can deploy the full scout squad in the LR. I like to think flexable... A few land speeders would also be excellent. You need something to pop transports with, besides the termie and tac heavies. Well, sorry, running out of time. Need to go back to work... Warprat ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2304553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Gaius Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 i really dont like how TH/SS termies is everyone's end-all/solve-all seconded yeah but they work. I watched 5 TH/SS terms w/vulkan, mind you, walk through 1500 pts of eldar and smash everything. about a week ago now. They just work with that 3++ save I dont run them in anything lower than ~1850 though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2304660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithril hound Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 my army is based around my 2 wg termi squads, 2AC with 5 power armored dudes squad, and a 50/50 TH/SS PW/SS squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2304669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattison Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 i really dont like how TH/SS termies is everyone's end-all/solve-all seconded yeah but they work. I watched 5 TH/SS terms w/vulkan, mind you, walk through 1500 pts of eldar and smash everything. about a week ago now. They just work with that 3++ save I dont run them in anything lower than ~1850 though I know they do (especially w/Vulkan) I just don't like clichés... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2304824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Gaius Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 i really dont like how TH/SS termies is everyone's end-all/solve-all seconded yeah but they work. I watched 5 TH/SS terms w/vulkan, mind you, walk through 1500 pts of eldar and smash everything. about a week ago now. They just work with that 3++ save I dont run them in anything lower than ~1850 though I know they do (especially w/Vulkan) I just don't like clichés... I agree with you Brother, I dislike the trend as well. However we cannot be picky in eradication of the xeno. Let us be as cold and indifferent as death, it is your duty! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2304830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminatorAM Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 true, but its nice to be able to rely on other options or slight alterations such as a HQ w/ storm sheild, mobility through teleporting/gating, attached HQ w/ much better cc cabability and at the same time remaining good at shooting. no longer a one trick pony Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2305424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 i really dont like how TH/SS termies is everyone's end-all/solve-all seconded yeah but they work. I watched 5 TH/SS terms w/vulkan, mind you, walk through 1500 pts of eldar and smash everything. about a week ago now. They just work with that 3++ save I dont run them in anything lower than ~1850 though I know they do (especially w/Vulkan) I just don't like clichés... I agree with you Brother, I dislike the trend as well. However we cannot be picky in eradication of the xeno. Let us be as cold and indifferent as death, it is your duty! IMO TH/SS Termis are costed 10 or 15 points too low. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2306310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelope King Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 IMO TH/SS Termis are costed 10 or 15 points too low. Agreed. The SW codex prices them out a little more evenly, and Blood Angels probably will too. Then again, true CC threats are much rarer in the vanilla codex, so I can understand them not being at a premium, and I'll keep taking advantage of the while I can :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2306317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 IMO TH/SS Termis are costed 10 or 15 points too low. Perhaps one of the reasons SW terminators with the same loadout are 63 points. Because Counter Attack isn't worth 23 points on any model... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193716-building-an-army-around-tact-terminators/#findComment-2306318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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