VonWyll Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I was wondering a few things about Inquisitor Karamazov. Firstly, is he an Inquisitor for the purposes of Assassins, Orbital Strikes, etc and secondly does he qualify for a transport. A friend of mine uses him and I read the entry and couldn't see why he wouldn't so I let him have his Land Raider. Regarding the transport rules it states: If the Inquisitor has a retinue and his unit number X models or less... Karamazov fulfills this requirement and Karamazovs entry states under retinue: No other Henchmen can be bought I allowed it because Henchmen are listed as a separate option to a transport vehicle. Has this come up before? It seemed reasonable enough at the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredWing Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 My take has always been that he is an =][= lord and as such can call on assassins & orbital strikes but when it comes to a LR I'm not so sure. The issue here for me would be that LR's are a transport option which is in turn an upgrade for the inquisitor and retinue. This is stated next to the unit listing in the codex. However under Karamazov's listing it states that he cannot be given additional wargear etc and (if my memory serves me correct) that he must be fielded as listed. If this is the case then a LR wouldn't be an option for ILK, after all it's not like he's in a position to use it. The other debatable question with ILK is in terms of him being a psyker. Common perception would be not, it's not listed under his entry in the codex but under =][= lord it states that all IL's are classed as psykers regardless of whether they possess psychic powers or not. It's not a way in which I'd play him, RAW, but there is a possibility that some could interpret him to be a psyker... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2301870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Karamazov is an Inquisitor Lord so he unlocks Assassins and Orbital Strikes as normal but I wouldn't say he qualifies for a transport. It states in his unit entry that he "must be used exactly as described below", and the description does not mention a transport! Apart from that, he functions as a Monstrous Creature so wouldn't be able to use a transport anyway and who's ever heard of a unit that can take a transport it can never use? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2301905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladigar Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I concur with WarriorFish's assessment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2301960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
imukuni Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 chaosSM units of more than 10 models may buy a rhino, that doesn't make sense, but GW allowed that. However, under ILK, he doesn't automatically have all the rules for an IL just because his name has it, the entry doesn't say he's allowed a transport so therefore doesn't get one, your just going to have to have more heavy support choices the old fashioned way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2302153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard12 Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 chaosSM units of more than 10 models may buy a rhino, that doesn't make sense, but GW allowed that. However, under ILK, he doesn't automatically have all the rules for an IL just because his name has it, the entry doesn't say he's allowed a transport so therefore doesn't get one, your just going to have to have more heavy support choices the old fashioned way. witch hunters can only get LR's by inquisitor/ inquisitor lord transport, they don''t have it as a heavy support choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2302175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
panbient Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 A friend of mine uses him and I read the entry and couldn't see why he wouldn't so I let him have his Land Raider. how would a Dreadnaught (err... Throne of Judgement) fit into a Land Raider? a little common sense here... also, the rules clearly specify that Karamazov and his retinue count as a single model and that he cannot purchase additional retinue members. so while the model benefits for having built in sages etc. it doesn't actually have a retinue or the ability to purchase one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2302531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonWyll Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 A friend of mine uses him and I read the entry and couldn't see why he wouldn't so I let him have his Land Raider. how would a Dreadnaught (err... Throne of Judgement) fit into a Land Raider? a little common sense here... also, the rules clearly specify that Karamazov and his retinue count as a single model and that he cannot purchase additional retinue members. so while the model benefits for having built in sages etc. it doesn't actually have a retinue or the ability to purchase one. Common Sense eh? You do realize we are talking about Warhammer here? Common sense would indicate that all Storm Shields and Smoke Launchers should work the same way, sadly, that is not the case. Furthermore, Karamazov has a retinue, it merely says they work differently and it doesn't say he can't have a Transport, it says he cannot take additional Henchmen. A literal interpretation says that a transport is not a henchman and thus it might be made available, particularly given that he can be used to unlock certain other, Inquisitor Only, elements in the book. I also do not need to re-mention what is mentioned above but i will. It is not unprecedented for units who cannot fit in a transport to be able to have one. A transport is a viable weapon platform and utility for some armies in certain cases. I think my query was valid and I do not think my common sense was impaired. The Inquisition lists are some you don't play against often and in a lot of cases, they are the exception to many rules. Grey Knight Force Weapons killing Eternal Warriors is one such example. Perhaps you should be less hasty to judge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2302621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredWing Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I think another grey area would be how many KP's is ILK worth. I've been playing it that he's worth 2, 1 for ILK and 1 for the retinue but is this being a little too lenient to my opponents? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2302712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
f.desrochers Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Seems to be a bit of skipping around the fact that Karamzov's rules are limited to what is listed on the page they are printed on. As far as being an Inquisitor Lord, that has already been covered to death: he is, he unlocks assassins, etc. As far as the Land Raider transport, unless it is an option on his page (no codex handy, at work), then it is not an option for him. The reference to dedicated transports from the HQ and Elites entry have absolutely no bearing on Karamzov. From memory, there is no dedcaited transport option for Karamzov, therefore no Land Raider for him. As referenced before, how would a model that counts as a dreadnaught/walker fit anyways? ;francois Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2303950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 WH codex, pg 26, under "Inquisitorial Retinues", it stand that if an Inquisitor and Inquisitor Lord has a Retinue, a tranport may be purchased from a list that includes a Rhino, a Chimera, and a Land Raider, with each option listing a maximun unit size allowed. WH codex, pg 46, under "Inquisitor Lord Karamazov", Retinue is listed as one of his special rules. As such, Lord Karamazov does count as an Inquisitor Lord + Retinue, regardless of his special rule that treats his combined unit as a single monstrous creature. Therefore, Lord Karamazov may purchase a Rhino, Chimera, or Land Raider, even though his unit may never embark on it, nor may any other unit begin the game embarked on it (per the most current WH FAQ). SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2304619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 It's not like a unit purchasing a dedicated transport it won't/can't use is completely unprecedented in WH40k; 10 man Space Marine Squads can still get Razorbacks, and Terminator Squads can also buy Land Raiders they can't fit into. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2304667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Karamazov is an Inquisitor, nobody disputes that. He would be entitled to a transport if his rules didn't say he must be used as described. Also, a Tac squad can use their Razorback, either through combat squading or being reduced by casualties. My point was that Karamazov can never embark no matter what happens! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2304948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatazo Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 The fact of the matter is that ILK is NOT an Inquisitor Lord as they are listed in the HQ section of the army book. GW has, in FAQ's, explained that he DOES unlock assassins, orbital strikes, ect... However, that is where the similarities between him and other inquisitors stop. He is NOT a psyker, he has NO options for transport, he is not even an independent character. It IS explain that he has a retinue, although he only uses one profile, and as such, under the new KP rules, killing him DOES net 2 KPs. Additionally, even if you bought a LR for another squad and then tried to walk ILK into it once the game startes (which you CAN do under the new DT rules) he wouldn't fit because he IS a monstrous creature and therefore CAN'T ride in a transport. The question come up when you assume he has ANYTHING to do with Inquisitor Lords. He DOESN'T. He's his OWN dude with his OWN rules. This whole issue is like assuming that Saint Celestine is an Adeptus Sororitas Heroine and can take a Celestian Command Squad like a Canoness would be able to. She CAN'T. She's not a Heroine, and has NOTHING to do with their rules. Edit: This is just another example of GW making a shoddy codex and great support for the fact that all =][= forces DESPERATELY NEED new codices... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/193745-karamazov-ruling/#findComment-2305157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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