Black Legion; What's the Appeal

[Lucifer216]

Rain: I'd be the first to agree that there have been some good portrayals of Abaddon. I thought his appearance in Soul Hunter was spot on, as well as in Gordon Rennie's Shadow Point. But we still could use a in-depth look at the trials he went through in order to become the Warmaster, as there's a huge gulf between the eternally raging member of the mournival in the HH books, to the ultimate scheming badass in the 41st millenium.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Rain: I'd be the first to agree that there have been some good portrayals of Abaddon. I thought his appearance in Soul Hunter was spot on, as well as in Gordon Rennie's Shadow Point. But we still could use a in-depth look at the trials he went through in order to become the Warmaster, as there's a huge gulf between the eternally raging member of the mournival in the HH books, to the ultimate scheming badass in the 41st millenium.

 

^ Emphasis mine.

 

He wasn't described as the eternally raging member of the Mournival, he was described as "choleric".

[Lord of Worms]

Rain: I'd be the first to agree that there have been some good portrayals of Abaddon. I thought his appearance in Soul Hunter was spot on, as well as in Gordon Rennie's Shadow Point. But we still could use a in-depth look at the trials he went through in order to become the Warmaster, as there's a huge gulf between the eternally raging member of the mournival in the HH books, to the ultimate scheming badass in the 41st millenium.

 

^ Emphasis mine.

 

He wasn't described as the eternally raging member of the Mournival, he was described as "choleric".

 

Choleric is the understatement of the century. Every time he appeared in a scene I got the impression of somebody about a hair away from exploding into full on roid-rage.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Choleric is the understatement of the century. Every time he appeared in a scene I got the impression of somebody about a hair away from exploding into full on roid-rage.

 

I thought of him as full of rage, but restrained by Little Horus and to a lesser extent the rest of the Mournival - on the field of battle he may have been savage but I felt he was coldly calculating.

[Captain-Plonker]

Hardly coldly calculating.

 

He flies off the handle and tries to kill a remembrancer with his bare hands over a comment that Erebus was lying (which he was). He only doesn't kill him because of Loken's convenient placement between the two.

 

If he was so coldly calculating he would not have gone nuts there because he would have realised that killing a remembrancer in public was going to have repercussions bad for him and possibly the Legion as a whole.

 

A transformation had to take place for him to get from this to the ultimate badass of the Black Legion.

[Trel]

I think the death of his father-figure would do that.

 

When he was part of the Mournival, he didn't have to be a 'complete' person. When he was with Horus, he didn't really have to be complete either. He was "the angry captain." It was his role and he probably, consciously or not, became even more apt to show a lousy temper because he was expected to.

 

When he's all alone, though, as all supreme commanders are, he must have realized pretty quickly that his options were a.) stay enraged and follow the bloody path to the foot of the Skull Throne or b.) fail as a Warmaster.

 

I don't think failure is an option for him and he's probably still got enough on the ball to know that bloodlust does not make a commander more cogent.

 

I can't imagine he's gotten any less angry, but ten thousand years of being angry has probably made him a little more able to harness and direct it better.

[A D-B]

Rain: I'd be the first to agree that there have been some good portrayals of Abaddon. I thought his appearance in Soul Hunter was spot on, as well as in Gordon Rennie's Shadow Point. But we still could use a in-depth look at the trials he went through in order to become the Warmaster, as there's a huge gulf between the eternally raging member of the mournival in the HH books, to the ultimate scheming badass in the 41st millenium.

 

I say the same thing in the occasional interview, so I'll splash it out here, too. I want to write about Abaddon/The Black Legion's rise. If it happens, it'll be a while yet, but I've got high hopes it'll happen at some point.

[Dark Mechanicum]

Abaddon is the scary bad-ass of Chaos because he takes in others. He has the few sorcerors outside of the Thousand Sons to make Rubric Marines, he knows how to make Plague Marines, he has a couple of hereteks to do the implants to make Berserkers, He even has the stuff to make Noise Marines. The Black Legion can have the cult troops, without the Daemon Primarch permission along with getting other members of other legions to come in. Good example is those same sorcerors from the Tsons joining the Black Legion, the Techies who can do the surgery for Khorne Berserkers.

 

Yea, his goals are never known. But lets look at the last two Crusades.

 

12th: Is the Gothic War, he goes after Blackstone Fortresses, and gets them.

 

13th: Uses said Blackstone Fortresses against Cadia and the systems around the EoT. Cadia..STILL fighting renegades that established footholds. Systems around the EoT: A lot are under chaos control and there is still fighting. Another great win for Chaos: Eldrad...EATEN BY A BLACKSTONE FORTRESS. I'm sorry, that is just epic. The most annoying figure in the Eldar race is taken out during a black crusade. Yea, Abaddon does his thing and more systems are left reeling from the chaos attack.

 

Medusa V: Setback in that Zaraphistion is killed by the Eldar.

 

The Black Legion gets bigger because others join up. The Word Bearers, well I dont know how they recruit and keep up numbers. Night Lords take a decade to bring in numbers and that is different per group, IW use their own geneseed and that ripped from others: Honsou a good example of it. I dont know how other legions recruit or how long it takes. But the Black Legion is growing while others are staying slightly stagnant it seems.

[Lord of Worms]

I say the same thing in the occasional interview, so I'll splash it out here, too. I want to write about Abaddon/The Black Legion's rise. If it happens, it'll be a while yet, but I've got high hopes it'll happen at some point.

 

Yeah, man. Do it up! Will it be part of a post-heresy arc involving the Scouring and so forth?

[Captain Tezdal]

Black Legions also makes a good way to taunt Blood Angels, "yea you see that claw on that Abbadon feller...yea, well Horus used that to slap-chop your primarch"

[Walter Payton]

I love the Black Legion's background and leader, because of this quotation from Execution Hour:

 

"And so Abbadon, Warmaster of the Traitor Legions, passed through the midst of his servants, not caring if they lived or died, not caring if they served him through loyalty, so long as they served him first through fear."

 

Sums him up perfectly. Unfortuantely I can't take the Black Legion seriously because a racist group of the same name murdered Malcolm X's dad, and I knew about them first, so it was the first thing I thought of when I heard about the real BL!

[Gree]

One of the main problems I think, with the Black Legion, and Abbadon, is that they don’t get any real complete wins. The closest Abbadon can get is invading, causing a great deal of destruction, before being forced back.

 

Look at the Gothic War, Abbadon got the Blackstones, but in the end it still felt like an Imperial victory. Look at the short story in the 5th edition rulebook. Sure, Abbadon invades a planet, destroys it and prevents the Imperium from using it again, but he still forced from the planet and it tastes like a draw at the best for the Black Legion.

 

For this most people think Abbadon is a failure, or someone who cannot win. I don’t think that but you have to admit that most people think that, or at least that’s been my experience.

 

As a Black Legion fan, I don’t get the same feel from him to Logan Grimnar or Marneus Calgar, I don’t get the feel of success from him.

 

Here is my solution.

 

Give Abbadon complete victories. In the old fluff Abbadon had a big victory against the Blood Angels at Mackan.

 

Expand on that in the new chaos codex. Make him get two or three complete victories that are described in utter detail. Don’t go halfway, don’t have the Imperium chase him away at the end, have him completely, and utterly win by no uncertain terms.

 

Have Abbadon attack a heavily defended Imperial planet during a Black Crusade. Make him get a solid win, make him beat the Guard, annihilate the fleet, defeat the Marines, burn the planet to the ground and make it obvious it was a major victory for him.

 

Have a short story of the Eldar trying to assassinate him before the 13th Black Crusade and Abbadon turning the tables on them. Have Abbadon attacking an Imperial world and being assaulted by an ork fleet. Have him take the fight to the orks in space and slay the Warboss in single combat.

 

Have Abbadon lead the Chaos Marines into an Necron tombworld, destroy the Necron Lord and cast it’s armies back to the cold tombs. Have Abbadon fight each of the Four God’s daemonic champions and triumph.

 

In short, give him victories. Don’t tell us he’s a feared warlord, show us why.

[Yogi]

Gree your post sums up my feelings on him also. Much better then my own post.

[Brother Nihm]

I was going to write a lengthy post but seeing as Gree captured it better than I ever could, and the fact that I am ill + knackered - I'll do this just this once.

 

A hundred epic & good reasons

Sir, you deserve a medal.

[Trel]

Great post on Abbadon, Gree.

 

However, I don't see the GW or Black Library people ever giving Abbadon a real honest-to-goodness victory, because that would be a major change in the 40k universe. The problem for Abbadon is that he's the attacker. A draw is a de facto win for the defenders. Abbadon will eternally cause grievous casualties and damage, but will always be thrown back at the last minute due to some xenos deus ex machina and the scene fades to black as Abbadon stands on the observation deck of his flagship, seething and plotting his next move.

 

You mentioned Grimnar and Calgar. Well, they never actually win either; they just just don't lose, which is as good as a win when you're playing for a tie. (And don't say they have wins against the Orks, because Orks is specifically never beaten.)

 

I wholly agree with you that the GW people should do more to emphasize why even the Daemon Primarchs listen to him when he includes their forces in his plans.

[A D-B]

...lots of genius stuff...

 

Exactly.

[Gree]

Great post on Abbadon, Gree.

 

However, I don't see the GW or Black Library people ever giving Abbadon a real honest-to-goodness victory, because that would be a major change in the 40k universe. The problem for Abbadon is that he's the attacker. A draw is a de facto win for the defenders. Abbadon will eternally cause grievous casualties and damage, but will always be thrown back at the last minute due to some xenos deus ex machina and the scene fades to black as Abbadon stands on the observation deck of his flagship, seething and plotting his next move.

 

My solution is simple. Very simple.

 

Do it in the past.

 

Mackan, I believe occurred in the 7th Black Crusade. In a past Black Crusade have Abbadon devastate a well-known chapter before the current 999 timeframe. It serves to hype Abbadon up as a major leader, but at the same time it does not change the timeline.

 

Have Mackan occur in a past Black Crusade, have Abbadon inflict major casualties on the Blood Angels and kill a past Chapter Master. This does not affect the Blood Angels’s strength in modern times, and does little to change the status quo, but it gives Abbadon a much needed victory.

 

Or have Abbadon destroy some no-name Chapter or Craftworld. Have Abbadon annihilate the ‘’Star Swords’’ chapter. A chapter that nobody had heard of until they were invented to show off Abbadon’s awesomeness. Have him annhilate their fortress monastary and have the Black Legion feast on their geneseed.

 

During the 10th Black Crusade have Abbadon attack Random Important system. Have him utterly annihilate it. It wont’ affect the current timeline at all, but it will give him a complete victory.

 

Or have Abbadon be the defender for a change. Have him defend himself against Eldar assassins, or a Necron fleet trying to stop the Chaos forces.

 

We have ten thousand years of history to play with people. Let’s use them.

[Legatus]

What have the other Legions won recently? :) I know it would probably leave a better impression if GW would elaborate on the great things Abaddon has done, but it is not like he is outdone by the other major Traitor leaders or anything. How did the invasion of Armageddon go for Angron? Not that smooth.

[Gree]

What have the other Legions won recently? :) I know it would probably leave a better impression if GW would elaborate on the great things Abaddon has done, but it is not like he is outdone by the other major Traitor leaders or anything. How did the invasion of Armageddon go for Angron? Not that smooth.

 

 

Of course, Abbadon is just the symptom of a larger cause. However it can't be denied that Abbadon is the most thought of as a ''failure'' and the Black Legion is most often held up as an example as Chaos failure.

 

But at the same time, Abbadon should be the most active of the Chaos Lords. The Daemon Primarchs are just staying on their own planets most of the time.

[Legatus]

Well, when was the last time you heard about the Word Bearers head Apostle? What was his name again? Or the highest ranking Iron Warrior Warsmith?

[Gree]

Well, when was the last time you heard about the Word Bearers head Apostle?

 

Erebus, he just ordered a huge Crusade in Dark Creed.

 

What was his name again? Or the highest ranking Iron Warrior Warsmith?

 

They don't have one, that's the whole point. But we did get a solid, complete victory in Storm of Iron.

 

 

 

 

....But I recognize your intent, I am not saying that only Abbadon should get it, but Abbadon is the most easily recognised face of Chaos. He is the big bad, the devil of the 41st millenium. He should have priority for victories. The other legions should deserve victories, but right now Abbadon needs them.

[Yogi]

The other legions dont even need the victories.. Because they dont claim to be the end of the imperium incarnate. Cult marines worship through action killing, infection, pleasure and what not. But Abaddon is always about ending the Imperium. As for the other Undivided, they all have their signatures to do. Alpha legion sows disruption, Word Bearers do the traditional worship thing Night lords cause terror and Iron warriors make fortress and dare anyone to take them. Red corsairs are mini black legion but they dont say we are going to end the Imperium its more, you cant stop us nanananana Pirate thing.

 

What are the black legion famous for .. Black crusades.. What do black crusades do.. Fail. Only Abaddon needs the help gree mentioned.

[Rain]

During the 10th Black Crusade have Abbadon attack Random Important system. Have him utterly annihilate it. It wont’ affect the current timeline at all, but it will give him a complete victory.

 

The 10th Black Crusade was actually carried out by the Iron Warriors, Abbadon was not involved. Apparently it involved fighting the Iron Hands over some mechanical something or other, not much is known specifically, but it was definitely Iron Warriors vs. Iron Hands as per a "vision" in one of the Liber Chaoticas.

 

Also, Legatus, there is no "highest ranking Warsmith" other than Perturabo I suppose. All of the others are pretty much autonomous and wander about doing their own thing unless Perturabo tells them to cooperate on something in which case they do. There was actually a story in a WD from about 8 years ago about an IW daemon prince being ordered to capture a planet from the Black Legion because the planet was needed by other Iron Warriors, daemon or not, he obeyed, you don't mess with Perturabo.

 

Actually the whole rank of "warsmith" was never well explained, it seems similar to company captain, but the warsmith in Storm of Iron seems far more powerful than any mere captain, or even all of the other warsmiths that have been mentioned. Apparently he could freely walk into the fire lanes of enemy guns and the gunners could not fire on him because they were petrified by the sight. Though supposedly he was an old buddy of Perturabo, so who knows.

 

Now that that tangent is over I agree with your point Gree, but unfortunately it seems that as of late the "bad guys" are just props to be knocked down by the knights in shining armor. It wasn't always like this, hell the Iron Warriors and Black Legion completely conquered Vogen (which was when I started playing Iron Warriors actually), and the Eye of Terror campaign was technically a Chaos victory, but recently it seems that more and more we are simply played up to be "mighty" though we get our collective rear ends beat at every notable juncture. Oh and the current C:SM has a Black Legionnaire getting killed.

[Gree]

During the 10th Black Crusade have Abbadon attack Random Important system. Have him utterly annihilate it. It wont’ affect the current timeline at all, but it will give him a complete victory.

 

The 10th Black Crusade was actually carried out by the Iron Warriors, Abbadon was not involved. Apparently it involved fighting the Iron Hands over some mechanical something or other, not much is known specifically, but it was definitely Iron Warriors vs. Iron Hands as per a "vision" in one of the Liber Chaoticas.

 

I was just picking out a random Black Crusade.

[Tenebris]

I have found this on youtube,

I belive that shows well the factor of awsomness and appeal of the Black Legion.