Finally someone worth fighting !

[Demonslayer]

BA do have some nice new toys. I think we SW have more versatile options though, not to mention we will always win when it comes to Style. I mean come on... Wolf Pelts > Girly Wings.

 

You also forgot what makes a true Space Marine;

 

Winning an eating contest,

 

Winning a drinking contest,

 

And last but not least, winning the burping contest.

 

Plus who else gets to take there pets with them to war, and cheered for doing the most stupid thing possible :blink:

[LoneSniperSG]

Just imagine the swirling melee as the two greatest CC Space Marine armies slam together. ... Nightmarish. My BA friend and I are already feeling the impending slaughter in our blood. Too bad I have to play against his Eldar until his Angels are once again ready to fight, but it helps me truly get a feel for my army.

[Valerian]

I play both armies and I can safely say that the BA dex is not as strong nor as versatile as our Wolf dex.

 

We still have it better. Ales 'ol around.

 

I play both armies, as well, and I wouldn't be too concerned about the Blood Angels from the Space Wolves player's perspective. They've got some good abilities, new units, and special rules, but nothing that is really too far out of balance or over-the-top.

 

Land Raiders with the ability to Deep Strike is nothing to worry about whatsoever. They are much better off starting on the table and to guarantee that they are in play from the beginning. The whole point of a Land Raider is to ensure you get your charge in where you want, and the occupants of the vehicle won't be able to assault the turn that it lands. Also, this tactic is dependent upon a successful Reserve Roll, and makes the vehicle vulnerable to possible Mishaps if scatter goes poorly. It is simply an additional choice based on the "fluff" of the Thunderhawk Transporter, and finally provides an in-game effect for getting combat vehicles from the space-based fleet to the planet-based battlefield. Right now this is a Blood Angels only ability, but will no doubt spread to all Marines in future codex iterations. That's the thing about new ideas, they have to start somewhere; since all Marine codices for each edition of the game aren't done in parallel, we'll just have wait for another update to get this.

 

The Stormraven is a nice vehicle, but as I understand it is rather expensive, so the Blood Angels will have to pay for the added capabilities that it'll provide their forces. It is an Assault Vehicle, but only for Jump Infantry units, whose Transport Capacity is limited to 6 models. Transported units can deploy when the vehicle moves Flat Out, but this triggers a Dangerous Terrain Test, and a few Angels might get killed in the process. One other Stormraven capability is the ability to also transport a Dreadnought, but forward deployment of a Dreadnought is just as easily accomplished with a Drop Pod, so this isn't a huge benefit either, really. The Stormraven is a Heavy Support choice. Just like the Deep Striking Land Raider, this is a new vehicle whose concept just happened to appear as the Blood Angels codex was being developed. Unlike the Baal Predator it's background "fluff" does not pitch it as a vehicle unique to the Blood Angels, so I expect other Marine forces will get access as their codices are also updated.

 

A Fast and Scouting Baal Predator is nice, but ideally that is a vehicle that the Blood Angels would want to just keep within maximum range to it's intended target. Other than risking itself to enemy Meltaguns and Power Fists, the only benefit to charging forward is to attempt a rather risky Tank Shock. It doesn't have a transport capacity, so there isn't a real drive to push forward into the enemy lines. The main advantage to this, as I see it, is the ability to attempt a last minute Contest of an Objective, just like players often do with Bikers and Land Speeders. Baal Predators are in the Fast Attack slot and compete with a lot of other attractive units, including Vanguard Veterans, Bikes, Attack Bikes, Land Speeders, etc.

 

I could go on, but that is enough for now. The Blood Angels in their new incarnation are going to be a hell of a lot of fun to play with and to play against.

 

 

Valerian

[kittenofdeath]

I play both armies and I can safely say that the BA dex is not as strong nor as versatile as our Wolf dex.

 

We still have it better. Ales 'ol around.

 

I play both armies, as well, and I wouldn't be too concerned about the Blood Angels from the Space Wolves player's perspective. They've got some good abilities, new units, and special rules, but nothing that is really too far out of balance or over-the-top.

 

Land Raiders with the ability to Deep Strike is nothing to worry about whatsoever. They are much better off starting on the table and to guarantee that they are in play from the beginning. The whole point of a Land Raider is to ensure you get your charge in where you want, and the occupants of the vehicle won't be able to assault the turn that it lands. Also, this tactic is dependent upon a successful Reserve Roll, and makes the vehicle vulnerable to possible Mishaps if scatter goes poorly. It is simply an additional choice based on the "fluff" of the Thunderhawk Transporter, and finally provides an in-game effect for getting combat vehicles from the space-based fleet to the planet-based battlefield. Right now this is a Blood Angels only ability, but will no doubt spread to all Marines in future codex iterations. That's the thing about new ideas, they have to start somewhere; since all Marine codices for each edition of the game aren't done in parallel, we'll just have wait for another update to get this.

 

The Stormraven is a nice vehicle, but as I understand it is rather expensive, so the Blood Angels will have to pay for the added capabilities that it'll provide their forces. It is an Assault Vehicle, but only for Jump Infantry units, whose Transport Capacity is limited to 6 models. Transported units can deploy when the vehicle moves Flat Out, but this triggers a Dangerous Terrain Test, and a few Angels might get killed in the process. One other Stormraven capability is the ability to also transport a Dreadnought, but forward deployment of a Dreadnought is just as easily accomplished with a Drop Pod, so this isn't a huge benefit either, really. The Stormraven is a Heavy Support choice. Just like the Deep Striking Land Raider, this is a new vehicle whose concept just happened to appear as the Blood Angels codex was being developed. Unlike the Baal Predator it's background "fluff" does not pitch it as a vehicle unique to the Blood Angels, so I expect other Marine forces will get access as their codices are also updated.

 

A Fast and Scouting Baal Predator is nice, but ideally that is a vehicle that the Blood Angels would want to just keep within maximum range to it's intended target. Other than risking itself to enemy Meltaguns and Power Fists, the only benefit to charging forward is to attempt a rather risky Tank Shock. It doesn't have a transport capacity, so there isn't a real drive to push forward into the enemy lines. The main advantage to this, as I see it, is the ability to attempt a last minute Contest of an Objective, just like players often do with Bikers and Land Speeders. Baal Predators are in the Fast Attack slot and compete with a lot of other attractive units, including Vanguard Veterans, Bikes, Attack Bikes, Land Speeders, etc.

 

I could go on, but that is enough for now. The Blood Angels in their new incarnation are going to be a hell of a lot of fun to play with and to play against.

 

 

Valerian

 

I agree mostly with your points on the ball and the DSing raiders, but the stormraven is ridiculous, its an assault vehicle for everything, not just jump troops, ignores the melta rule (cerimite plating, stolen from the sallies) and comes with twin linked ass cannon and twin linked heavy bolter, four hunter killer missiles (sorta) armour 12 all round, oh, and its 50 points less than an LR

[Hfran Morkai]

I agree mostly with your points on the ball and the DSing raiders, but the stormraven is ridiculous, its an assault vehicle for everything, not just jump troops, ignores the melta rule (cerimite plating, stolen from the sallies) and comes with twin linked ass cannon and twin linked heavy bolter, four hunter killer missiles (sorta) armour 12 all round, oh, and its 50 points less than an LR

 

Perhaps GW is trying to tell us something about melta?

 

*Shrugs*

 

I personally pack 6 missile launchers, 4 lascannons and two twin linked lascannon at 1500 points so I'm not too worried, armour 12 is a dread, just have to hope it doesn't move flat out, but then it can't shoot at me.

 

For the Legion!

[kittenofdeath]

I agree mostly with your points on the ball and the DSing raiders, but the stormraven is ridiculous, its an assault vehicle for everything, not just jump troops, ignores the melta rule (cerimite plating, stolen from the sallies) and comes with twin linked ass cannon and twin linked heavy bolter, four hunter killer missiles (sorta) armour 12 all round, oh, and its 50 points less than an LR

 

Perhaps GW is trying to tell us something about melta?

 

*Shrugs*

 

I personally pack 6 missile launchers, 4 lascannons and two twin linked lascannon at 1500 points so I'm not too worried, armour 12 is a dread, just have to hope it doesn't move flat out, but then it can't shoot at me.

 

For the Legion!

 

true, not hard to kill, but that's it nonupgraded, it can be lethal, you do need to kill it, and thats time that could be spent killing the bigger threats, such as blood talon dreds, those are scary

[Maccon]

Personally, I'm excited the our brothers the Blood Angels finally get some love

 

I'm a fan of the deep striking land raiders, something I kind of wish all the marine armies had, feels very fluff appropriate to me.

 

There is one unit bit in there that terrifies me...death company dreads with Blood Talons. FYI these are in the preview codex that came in the black boxes. The way it works is thus, imagine an iron clad with a pair of lightning claws. Now initially that's not all that scary...but here's the nasty part. With every successful wound it causes it gets another attack that round. Think of it like saga of the warrior born except it works again that turn...and you just keep going until you miss with all the attacks or don't wound. If you've played fantasy and run into a tomb king bone giant they do the same thing...only those are weapon skill two as opposed to the dread's 4 or 5.

 

So to spell it out again, lets say it has 4 attacks, 3 hit. And since its got a strength of 6 and it rerolls to wound, that it gets three wounds, no armor saves. It then immediatly gets another three attacks; lets say those three hit and after rerolls it only gets two wounds. It then gets another two attacks that round...and so on and so forth until it doesn't kill anything. For giggles we rolled it out...it killed 14 marines (or orks as at that point they have the same statline to that thing) the first time and 17 the second. That thing scares me. Now granted it loses its higher tank busting ability but yea...they can take those as troop choices.

 

However, its an ironclad, break its legs it and you're fine. Or blow an arm off, if it loses one, it now just has lightning claws. These things are by no means unstoppable...they're just one of those little gems in the new book that I feel a bunch of people didn't really see on the first look through...but any dread that can wipe out an entire 15 man blood claw sqaud in one turn makes me take notice.

 

I do know that my friend and I were talking about who could have the smaller model count in a legal army, the new BA or the Wolves. When he gets the new book we're doing a 2000 point game where you must field a legal army under 15 models, including vehicles. Should be fun times. Logan, Ragnar, Bjorn, and Njal in one list...muwahaha.

[NuclearMessiah]

I am not really worried about there Deep Striking LR. I mean the LR takes up a decent chunk of space and I at least normally play games in very terrain heavy maps (To help alleviate the mech rush a bit). Unless they get a some kind of homing beacon for it chances are it may not show up till turn 5 and there is a strong chance it will mishap, and I would be pissed if I lost a LR with all its occupants to a bad scatter.

 

I mean play it smart. Try to avoid open field battles and you know two things.

1. They are coming right at you

2. They will have deepstrikers

 

So a good deployment set up to deny them space to DS into a vulnerable spot or leaving the brunt of your troops in reserve so you can laugh at the fast vehicles who have nothing to charge at. Or better yet Drop Pod assault them, get in their business quick make it crowded so the deepstrikers have no where to go, Take a hug swig from your stein, pray to the Emperor and Russ for good dice rolls and have fun :D

 

Anyways there is my 2 cents.

[whitewolfmxc]

Puff im not that worrying about the land raider thing since meltas are everywhere , but i feel bad for some armies , my friend that plays Tau just quite after what he saw for the blood angels..........and i quote "After all the other codex's that takes away what we use to have and made it better , but this..........a MC in a Marine army and also fast this and that while also deepstriking without much trouble plus a LAND RAIDER ?!? I Quit untill a new tau codex comes out"

 

One thing that pisses me though is , that blood talon crap . If what i read is true , a model that can generate UNLIMITED attacks on the same turn if they hit / wound , ok so whats next for Khorne ? I just have unlimited profile attacks ....

[NuclearMessiah]

From my reading over in the BA forum the army has a 1/6 chance of becoming an entire army of Khorne Beserkers. Fearless and Furious Charge at the expense of losing ATSKNF

[whitewolfmxc]

XD good one , but still doesnt make the blood talon thing no over the top

[Night Runner]

From my reading over in the BA forum the army has a 1/6 chance of becoming an entire army of Khorne Beserkers. Fearless and Furious Charge at the expense of losing ATSKNF

Can you clarify this for me. When you say the army has a 1/6 chance do you mean they roll once for the whole army or does each unit roll separately?

[HERO]

Each unit separate at the beginning of the game. Cheers.

[the jeske]

One other Stormraven capability is the ability to also transport a Dreadnought, but forward deployment of a Dreadnought is just as easily accomplished with a Drop Pod, so this isn't a huge benefit either, really.

one less kill point. normal assault army would have unit +transport and dread + transport . BA can have one transport for both . it also saves the points for the drop pod. so it does have benefits.

[eldaran]

One other Stormraven capability is the ability to also transport a Dreadnought, but forward deployment of a Dreadnought is just as easily accomplished with a Drop Pod, so this isn't a huge benefit either, really.

one less kill point. normal assault army would have unit +transport and dread + transport . BA can have one transport for both . it also saves the points for the drop pod. so it does have benefits.

 

On the other hand, it's much dearer as a transport choice and is only slightly less prone to being blown up (due to not being open-topped) unless you shoot it from the rear (in which case it's far more at risk)

 

Not saying that it's a bad unit to take, just that i probably wouldn't want to take it; the dreads would imo do better as distraction units from the baal preds/fast vindies that i would run.

 

On a general note, whilst there are things that i am concerned about (eg: mephiston :rolleyes:) at the end of the day, they're still SM's (with many of the same inherent weaknesses), and we are still better in cc than them (unless the unit has furious charge, but i haven't worked out the mathhammer behind furious charge vs. counter-attack yet, but i would say that more attacks > S5, I5...)

 

My penny of thoughts,

 

EDIT: 1st post!!

[Lord Ragnarok]

Just imagine the swirling melee as the two greatest CC Space Marine armies slam together. ... Nightmarish. My BA friend and I are already feeling the impending slaughter in our blood. Too bad I have to play against his Eldar until his Angels are once again ready to fight, but it helps me truly get a feel for my army.

 

Or think about a doubles match. I think BA's and SW's teamed up would overwhelming for many armies.

[Valerian]

One other Stormraven capability is the ability to also transport a Dreadnought, but forward deployment of a Dreadnought is just as easily accomplished with a Drop Pod, so this isn't a huge benefit either, really.

one less kill point. normal assault army would have unit +transport and dread + transport . BA can have one transport for both . it also saves the points for the drop pod. so it does have benefits.

 

This still doesn't make a big difference to me Jeske. It would, however, be a big deal if that Dreadnought can Assault after being forward deployed by the Stormraven - that's something that you cannot get from a standard Drop Pod. I haven't seen this clarified yet, but the Stormraven is an Assault Vehicle, so it is intirely possible that both the unit inside the Stormraven, as well as the carried Dreadnought can both assault from the transport, even when it moves Flat Out (i.e. up to 24"); they just have to take a Dangerous Terrain test.

 

If this is allowed, then the vehicle has just provided a significant capability. One that I hope does eventually spread to the Space Wolves; I'd love to zip Bjorn across the table directly into an assault.

 

V

[NuclearMessiah]

Ok sorry if this has been brought up, but I am far to lazy to go back through 7 pages to find out :(

 

Would Tempest's Wrath be an effective counter measure or at least semi deterrent to deepstrikers in our back field. I know it has a limited range and you cant double it up by putting it on another RP. But I think it could provide some decent protection for objectives or vulnerable armor formations from the DS heavy BA army.

[Wispy]

Tempest's Wrath is designed to give Blood Angels headaches. It'll help you keep control of the 24 inch killzone.

 

We'll all aware the Rune Priest is an excellent support Psyker, but with each new codex that comes out it's more apparent that including one is more and more necessary.

[NuclearMessiah]

Not that it would be something I would do often but if I get hammered by BA enough I will likely resort to a DH Inq Lord allied in with 2 mystics, put him near your RP and make that headache a migraine lol

 

Its a bit cheesy and could well go the way of the dodo bird when the Inquisitorial forces get their new codex, but I have one lying around I used in my IG army to help dissuade opponents from DSing into my gun line.

[kittenofdeath]

One other Stormraven capability is the ability to also transport a Dreadnought, but forward deployment of a Dreadnought is just as easily accomplished with a Drop Pod, so this isn't a huge benefit either, really.

one less kill point. normal assault army would have unit +transport and dread + transport . BA can have one transport for both . it also saves the points for the drop pod. so it does have benefits.

 

This still doesn't make a big difference to me Jeske. It would, however, be a big deal if that Dreadnought can Assault after being forward deployed by the Stormraven - that's something that you cannot get from a standard Drop Pod. I haven't seen this clarified yet, but the Stormraven is an Assault Vehicle, so it is intirely possible that both the unit inside the Stormraven, as well as the carried Dreadnought can both assault from the transport, even when it moves Flat Out (i.e. up to 24"); they just have to take a Dangerous Terrain test.

 

If this is allowed, then the vehicle has just provided a significant capability. One that I hope does eventually spread to the Space Wolves; I'd love to zip Bjorn across the table directly into an assault.

 

V

 

the Dred can assault the turn it disembarks, just like the unit, also you have to factor in the guns it comes with, twin linked assault cannon and twin linked heavy bolter, both of which can be swapped out for other equaly nasty stuff, and you can tack on an extra pair of hurricane bolters

[Valerian]

Not that it would be something I would do often but if I get hammered by BA enough I will likely resort to a DH Inq Lord allied in with 2 mystics, put him near your RP and make that headache a migraine lol

 

Actually, putting him near your Long Fangs would be a better option for you. Free shots at Deep Strikers from your 5 Heavy Weapons will make him think twice about dropping in on your door-stop. Tempests Wrath will only make things worse for him as everyone rolling a 1 on their Dangerous Terrain test goes back into the army case.

 

V

[Grey Mage]

Yeah, tempests Wrath is my #1 reason for taking master of the runes.

[Hrothgar Beastslayer]

What about in this situation? A 10 man hunter squad with say a plasma and a melta are 12 inches away from either DC or regular Bood marines, would it be better to rapid fire death or charge and deny them the furious charge?

[JamesI]

Just imagine the swirling melee as the two greatest CC Space Marine armies slam together. ... Nightmarish. My BA friend and I are already feeling the impending slaughter in our blood. Too bad I have to play against his Eldar until his Angels are once again ready to fight, but it helps me truly get a feel for my army.

 

Or think about a doubles match. I think BA's and SW's teamed up would overwhelming for many armies.

I agree. When we meeting up for a team game?