Pre--Heresy Wolves help

[Gree]

Hello, I am writing a Thousand sons story (soon to appear in a Liber near you) and I hit a snag in my story planning about the events on Shrike.

 

How large are the Pre-Heresy Space Wolf great companies? I know they are organised into 13 Great companies, but is there a rough size avalible at all for the Wolves? What about chain of command? Did they still have Wolf Preists pre-heresy?

[Hfran Morkai]

No-one knows the sizes of our Great Companies, pre or post-heresy.

 

However I have heard it uttered the SW Legion was one of the smaller Legions, not that it means much. Also I'm not sure if it was from a canon source.

 

Also I'm fairly sure they had Wolf Priests back then.

[hmk17]

No canon info on how big the SW once were, but as they are not Codex Astartes they are probably one of the bigger Chapters, currently.

 

As to wolf priests, they should have been around then.

[Arcus]

as a legion, the space wolves were smaller than most, and in becoming a chapter they were only split the one time. BUT as a chapter it appears they have possibly the largest amount of warriors. (this stuff is spread throughout the Codices). i did read somewhere that a legion is around 10,000 peeps, so maybe 6,000 for the wolves? (thats totaly made up on my part... the SW were the 6th legion, and i dont think any legion could have been less then 5,000... so it kinda works imho). and as far as i know, we wolves havent changed our style of warfare... well... ever. the priests and all should be there. the only real difference is one of gear i think. less/no plas, or jump packs... some other equiptment missing but i dont know what heh. oh and according to sources on this forum and others, as a chapter now we could be between 1500 to 2000 strong. Not counting the myriad "missing in action" great Companys ;)

 

just another rabbit for the stew-pot :D

[space wolf of the 13th]

the only real difference is one of gear i think. less/no plas, or jump packs... some other equiptment missing but i dont know what heh. just another rabbit

well they did have jump packs. in the horus heresy books one character is actully an assault squad sergent with jump packs. also some other legions actully had squads mounted on jet bikes like Master Sammael of the Ravenwing's bike. im not completely positive on plasma weapons but in "battle for the abyss" the ship is armoured with the first plasma lance. and as you know you normally work your way up so they probly did have plasma

[stinkenheim]

plasma was more prevalant in the Heresy, DAs are known to have the highest number of plasma weapons in their armouries reflecting their status as the first legion. it has become increasingly difficult to manufacture the technology hence why it is rarer these days.

also jump packs for SW were pretty similar to how they are now, we use them but aren't massively keen on them so there is no reason not to include them.

[Gree]

i did read somewhere that a legion is around 10,000 peeps, so maybe 6,000 for the wolves?

 

A Thousand Sons mentiones Russ leading about 6,000 Wolves right at the end of the battle. Mind you, this is after the heavy fighting that the Wolves participated in with the Thousand Sons. I don't know how many casualties they took or what their original sizes were but between Phosis T'kar, Auramagma, Hathor Maat, Phael Toron and Khalophis's psy-titan, they seemed to have taken pretty heavy losses from the description.

 

When you think about it, 10,000 is really a smaller number compared to the Dark Angels who were shipping out 20,000 replacements and the World Eaters who had 50 companies. The thousand sons were a smaller legion as well and they had 10,000 men in the battle.

[Marshal Rohr]

Gree, I thought the Space Wolves were always under 10,000, and were the smallest, but fiercest Legion? I can't remember where its from, give me a few days and I'll try to find the source, but I think its the PH artbooks. I thought the fighting on Prospero basically crippled the Wolves, but the just drove on until the end of the Heresy, when they ended up with 2000+.

[Gree]

Gree, I thought the Space Wolves were always under 10,000, and were the smallest, but fiercest Legion? I can't remember where its from, give me a few days and I'll try to find the source, but I think its the PH artbooks. I thought the fighting on Prospero basically crippled the Wolves, but the just drove on until the end of the Heresy, when they ended up with 2000+.

 

 

I don't know about that, I've read the artbooks and don't get that. If you could fine a source that would be great.

[Arcus]

I have gone and dug out my 2nd ed books to clarify the plasma and jump packs stuff (a little OT sorry gree) the most usefull it seems is Codex: Chaos. I dont have access to the dark angels stuff, but Chaos seems to be the best for an overall picture of PH tech

 

so, p72

“Though both jump packs and skimmers were available to the space marine legions in limited quantities prior to the heresy they were proportionally far rarer than in the later imperial space marine chapters. The complex fabrications and maintenance rituals required for jump packs and skimmers has eliminated their use by the traitor legions since their banishment to the eye of terror.”

 

this was totally true until those Raptors came around hehe... anyway I think thats pretty solid evidence for that subject.

 

 

And p74

“Plasma guns and pistols that could be carried and used by a space marine in power armour were still prone to overheating and leaking energised plasma onto their unfortunate users. Nonetheless the devastating power of plasma weaponry made it too potent to abandon and many legions utilised it in a limited fashion anyway.”

 

The wars' arms race “...pushed early plasma weapons to the battlefront more and more, regardless of the risks involved.”

it also says that these were almost “prototype” weapons... their overheating probs were “fixed” to their current standards at the close of the heresy. So (interpretation time now ^_^ ) while still having some presence on the battlefield, I think that they must have gained popularity since, as now all chapters utilize Plasma.

 

So I do think that Plas has become more common, not less...

 

the paradox of currently using more advanced tech than the “Golden Age” is an irritation to many (myself included) but thats what the good books say...

 

yet another rabbit... and some onions heh

 

Cheers – Arcus

:D

 

 

PS in my opinion the wolves were hardly “crippled” on prospero. Russ had plenty of men to use... he sent a whole company after magnus, and stomped around some more before taking ANOTHER company (his own one) into the eye himself. All that and nothing has ever been said about them being underpowered or lacking in capabilitys, and the wolves are now (debatably) the largest chapter. Prospero sucked hard for the Sons, the Wolves were fine...

also imo BL books arent cannon.

 

/rant

:drool:

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

My feel for the size of a GC both pre and post heresy is three 'normal' SM companies, ie around 300.

[Gree]

PS in my opinion the wolves were hardly “crippled” on prospero. Russ had plenty of men to use... he sent a whole company after magnus, and stomped around some more before taking ANOTHER company (his own one) into the eye himself. All that and nothing has ever been said about them being underpowered or lacking in capabilitys, and the wolves are now (debatably) the largest chapter. Prospero sucked hard for the Sons, the Wolves were fine...

 

I never said they were cripplied. But the loss of half the legion has implied in a Thousand Sons must have hurt such a small legion badly.

 

also imo BL books arent cannon.

 

That's fine, but GW has stated that BL books are just canon as any codex, and Dan Abnett himself claims they are what really happened. And since Abnett is writing Prospero Burns it would be intresting to see what he comes up with.

[Hfran Morkai]

Question:

 

I can't remember what lovely bits come on our Wolf sprues but does anyone have an idea of how many pre-heresy suitable torsos there are?

 

I'm hoping there's a few.

[Sven Bloodskull]

Durfast Spiritwolf, isn't 300 per company a bit to much? That would mean that the SW have a force of 3600 marines. Last time i checked, i thought the inquisition only came banging on the Fang's door to ask them about their Wulfen, not their chapter size. Than again, even if this number is correct, they are still not the largest chapter in existence. If the rumours are correct, that honour falls to the Black Templars, who do get a knock knock from the inquisition about that.

 

It is ironic though, is it not? First, they where the smallest Legion, and now they are one of the largest chapters.

 

@Gree: I myself have read A Thousand Sons already, i found it was a good book. And yeah, the Wolves did take a pounding before they eventually drove the TS off. I am not going to spoil anything, but let's just say that if it was not for a certain person refusing to defend Prospero, than the wolves would have been send packing back to Fenris.

 

Marshal Hellmund

[Arcus]

PS in my opinion the wolves were hardly “crippled” on prospero. Russ had plenty of men to use... he sent a whole company after magnus, and stomped around some more before taking ANOTHER company (his own one) into the eye himself. All that and nothing has ever been said about them being underpowered or lacking in capabilitys, and the wolves are now (debatably) the largest chapter. Prospero sucked hard for the Sons, the Wolves were fine...

 

I never said they were cripplied. But the loss of half the legion has implied in a Thousand Sons must have hurt such a small legion badly.

 

also imo BL books arent cannon.

 

That's fine, but GW has stated that BL books are just canon as any codex, and Dan Abnett himself claims they are what really happened. And since Abnett is writing Prospero Burns it would be intresting to see what he comes up with.

 

yeah right! :) i didnt know that, actually i thought twas the other way around... but i will readily admit i can be wrong. i feel that its a pity, but oh well :)

 

btw my "other" army is the Thousand Sons (well its just a few models really. id love to build a PH TSons army) Magnus was *almost* my first favorite primarch hehehe. i wonder what the ratio is of SW players trying for TS vs other things?

 

cheers - Arcus

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Durfast Spiritwolf, isn't 300 per company a bit to much? That would mean that the SW have a force of 3600 marines. Last time i checked, i thought the inquisition only came banging on the Fang's door to ask them about their Wulfen, not their chapter size. Than again, even if this number is correct, they are still not the largest chapter in existence. If the rumours are correct, that honour falls to the Black Templars, who do get a knock knock from the inquisition about that.

 

Marshal Hellmund

 

With only twelve GCs disclosed, but several others known to be out doing their own thing, the Chapter is probably even bigger than that - although still smaller than the ten thousand plus BTs. Remember the VI Legion only split once and have never signed up to Codex Astartes.

 

As an aside, a GC will never be at full strength, but must be self-sufficient with all vehicle, Thunderhawk etc. having to be manned - unlike in other chapter were the reserve companies seem to fulfil this role.

 

Given the chapter relationship with the Inquisition I don't think that they would have any real idea about the size or dispositions of the SWs.

 

Regards,