Bikers, Chosen or Raptors?

[TheLawn]

One of my friends plays imperial guard, so he has a boatload of tanks...

 

So I need some form of counter to his load of tanks.

 

Either way, I'll have 2 predators and a vindicator to help draw fire from whatever I'm using.

 

Raptors will be safe until they drop in... but I don't choose when...

Bikers could turbo for the extra save first turn...

Chosen could easily get within range for their meltas in the first turn... but only if I go first...

All of them are intended for use as suicide units.

 

I'd have the groups in smallest numbers available for maximum coverage and so that enemy fire couldn't be as concentrated.

No champions... no other upgrades other than meltas... just throwaway tank poppers...

 

 

Thoughts... suggestions... comments?

[The_Crippster]

lol termicide.

 

(3 termies, 3 combi meltas, get 2 groups for best results)

 

also use oblits if you can

[TheLawn]

Yeah... I could do that... but it's expected... and not as interesting...

 

I'm looking for a more dynamic OSHI...! approach... not the usual "send these huge giant bullet absorbing clodhoppers in" :D

 

But yeah... I will do that if this plan fails...

[Corpse.]

Alright if it's that job, mainly for IG...

 

Let's assume termicide and chosen try to outflank are on par with one another. (because he could easily put his tanks in the mid table with many men surrounding them beyond 6" range)

 

You need melee to do the job for you. Chosen are regular marines, easy to toss an icon of nurgle to force 6's to hurt them just like bikes. Terminators could be double that (literally!) in melee attacks to take one down if you use icon of nurgle. However, they cannot charge the turn they arrive and he could make it so that it's hard for outflankers to charge into melee with chimeras etc.

 

So for this job, and being consistent raptors and/or bikes are your best bet for constant results. (hopefully you are mechanized with the rest)

 

Second turn assault is very possible using sorcerers, and bikes+raptors come with 24" meltagun potential with 12" move and 12" range (if you went second/18" distance).

 

I prefer my raptors with icon of nurgle and 20 models strong. But because the opponent has the possible alley of using psyker battle squads.. I do not advise that, because he may eventually take that unit (or multiples!).

 

Small raptor units deep striking are semi-decent termicide style, including the krak grenades they come with hitting at best AV11 rear armor out of all their tanks. At worse, facing off against sentinels will be the biggest issue for these guys on the vehicle hunting. Can even opt to go plasma guns for side/rear armor values since that could be possible if he uses short range tanks like demolishers and places them forward a bit with no reason to put men behind it to protect from deep strike.

 

 

Five Raptors also in smaller units take up less space than 3 terminators for small dangerous deep strikes. If a mishap happens and the opponent places the raptors anywhere you don't like, you can always move them 12" a turn still.

 

For bikes, you can hide them behind transports and turbo them forwards with that 3+ cover save. Natural T5 for 6's to wound you allows you to use more offensive icons like icon of khorne to make up for their spendy cost per model in attacks.

 

Either way, I suggest raptors for the general multi-purpose, more kraks against the specific foe and potential to run large squads with T5 (6's to wound you) for sheer damage including lashing first turn assaults with such a dangerous unit. (A few games I only needed just the raptors to win against a 2k IG army, 15+ kraks against 3 stationary squadron AV10 rear tanks really is a meatgrinder - especially when you can assault two squadrons at once!)

 

Dont underestimate your kraks against IG. Your biggest bane is sentinels, and if that starts popping up you can always add a champ with powerfist or add a lord with wings and undivided daemon weapon or two. (even a greater daemon possessing the champ)

[TheLawn]

Thanks for the awesome post :wink:

 

I will probably end up running raptors, after a lot of reading and thinking it looks like they would be the better choice.

 

Cheaper than bikes and more durable than Chosen...

 

Might have some oblits to deep strike with them.

 

Thanks for the help guys :whistling:

[the jeske]

because considering the melta/plasma/chimer and vendetta spam the main weapon of IG the lasgun ^_^ .

 

as tanks go you dont need to blow them up just stun them .chaos has 4 realiable anti tank units . oblits and dps , 2 melta squads and termicid. the problem with all is that while they can work against a meq army , they offten dont against IG [sad but true a better dex] . all in all everything chaos can do is countrable by IG and if you want to tailor your list be warned , there is no better army to build tailored lists then IG. if you want to go in to a model race with your friend you will end up losing in the end.

 

What I would do is play with 2 dps and use 6 oblits.

 

PSAh I didnt write why bikes and raptors wont work .

Bikes . well first of all if you take 3 you have to cut something , they cost more then a termicid[without the IoN] , but are slowed by terrain to be sure you can counter 2-3 tanks a turn you would have to run 3-4man units [what means points get cut from oblits or your playing with fewer troops and no 2 hqs] x2. Yes they can boost , but in hth there is no cover If they fight a unit with a fist[and there arent many runing around without one] they will die and if you try to add your own aps champion with fist the unit starts to cost a huge number of points and needs an HQ to baby sit it .

 

the raptors . 5 man deep striking cost more points termicid[so again an oblit has to be droped or all oblits if 2 squads taken] while having the same problem chaos has with deep strike[no pods , no way to make reservs better etc] . a 5 man unit will strugle against most units in hth and will die like 5 meq [for more points] . If a bigger squad is taken it again then again we have problems with raptors being big models[cant hide them behind rhinos because of the bases] and even if someone lets you do that what is the sense of hiding behind a rhino[with chance that a blast will scater of the rhino on the them] when a squad of csm in a rhino does the same and is scoring ?

[aeroplane]

Question - why don't you want to start the Raptors on the table? The whole point of them is that they move fast, so you can bounce them from cover to cover, and then kill things with the final 18" charge...

[TheLawn]

I could start with the raptors on the table, but the main concern is keeping them out of harms way until they can do their deed.

 

Just by bringing these guys I'd be drastically changing my playstyle which would throw him off, I just don't want him to be able to predict what and where I have will be so my attack magnets, the preds and vindi, will be the ones mostly under fire until it's too late.

 

The hit and run on high priority targets would also work well against my friend who plays tyranids... so I can quickly take out her goddamn gaunt factory bastards...

 

I know trying this might be a loosing battle... but hell, I gotta try....

[SquirrelKing]

Here's my take on 5 man raptor squads (with meltas): unless you're lucky, they will not be effective on Deep Strike. I would try to put them on the table and manoeuver them towards a target.

 

I have recently played a game with them, and they came in late so there were no real valid targets. They are also well placed to be templated to death with the deep strike positioning. If they could assault on DS, then that would be a whole other thing.

 

If you want to DS something with meltas, do termicide. More reliable/survivable and cheeper.

 

I would try a 3 man 2 melta bike squad if you want to do something different. Do not underestimate Turbo-boost. Hell, you could keep them back and use them to contest an objective late in the game if no real juicy targets remain.

 

Plus bikes are cool :)