Think I just gave up...

[BlackDingo]

Sigh

 

Just tried once again to figure out how to build a cool GK army again.... and came pretty close. But then I remembered what happened when I spent all my $$ on Space Marines before 5th ed came out.

 

So with no real release dates available, and everything very 'maybe-perhaps' regarding line-up... I think I'll just shelve the lot and wait. Tired of painting and playing with an outdated and outgunned army anyways.

 

I could include IG, but hey! Look at that! I need TWO whole infantry platoons to get even a sentinel squad! Cant choose anything BUT platoons too.

Stormtroopers are cool, but the 'hellguns' are just underpowered bolters... and going at $28 for 4 metal models. Oh, and no heavy weapons.

 

Frag it. I'll have a look through the Witchhunters codex... see if I can get anything interesting form there to add.

 

Yeah, I'm just bitching I suppose... but you get that. Sorry if I offended.

 

Grump grumpy grumpy.

[WarriorFish]

Either way you look at it waiting is not a bad idea. The rumblings are of course always that but it definitely feels like something is coming in the not too distant future - have a good read of the topic here on the =][= section if you haven't already. Collecting WH would leave you in a similar boat due to metal models though, so holding off for those plastic models would save you money. Plus plastic is great for modding stuff and if you've seen the new BA kits you won't worry about the levels of detail or awesome...

 

I wouldn't worry about inducting Sentinels, it wasn't really great before we lost Armoured Fists as the inductees. Take an Infantry Platoon for the numbers and heavy fire power (and transports), that's where they're best!

[number6]

Pure GK is not a viable 5th edition army, and that's just the way it is. There's nothing wrong with the DH army, though, because of the induction issue and ISTs. But that's what you need to do if you want to continue playing GK even halfway competitively. Just the way it is.

[Gentlemanloser]

It's still grates on me that while this is wholey true, if I wanted to use IST, I'd be much better off playing an IG army, and allying in the couple of GK squads I'd want to use.

 

I'm not, and don't want to, play an IG army. ;)

 

But the BA sure look as promising as the SW to bide the time. Librarian Dreads, now that's something the rare GK Dreads should all be. :P

[BlackDingo]

Good points all round.

 

Sorry about the original post, it was made after a heavy loss and discovering that my $700 army ain't worth rolling dice for.

 

It shall be all good one day. Cheers gang.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

While I have yet to get to use it, I do know there is a neat Fan-dex someone has done around here that looks promising, you could always play with that if its just friendly games. For tourneys and such though, it does appear you and me are both out of luck.

[Lord of Worms]

There`s lots of DH stuff all over ebay for cheap. Everyone`s in the same boat you are and ditching their uncompetitive armies, which is short sighted,IMO. Take advantage of their fickle natures!

[Commander Sasha]

One of my son's friends has just gotten/bought a GK army on the advice of a GW redshirt; I almost feel like complaining to management; until a new codex appears, the kid doesn't stand a chance.

Mind you, the gloating rights when a new Codex is released will be awesome!

 

Paint 'em, display 'em, save 'em for the 'dex. Until then, explore a nice new army with codex creep benefits! Hope to see you back here in a year or 2!

[stoopicus]

So, while it is true that there are easier armies to play, pure GK can actually win. I am running about 50% with mine.

 

Yes, some armies (Tau, IG) are all but unbeatable right now with such a force. But many are merely tough, and winning with a pure GK force is very satisfying.

 

One thing that helps a lot is if your opponent is fine with you using Forge World rules. The Dreadnought drop pod with a locator beacon is very helpful. The GK LR Redeemer is frankly overpowered, like everything else in Apoc II is. etc.

[boreas]

Personally, I wouldn't invest a cent in Grey Knights. Sure, the models are good. But one of two things will happens. Either they ditch them (I know, Jervis said blah blah... But then the accountants came in and bashed the dream like a Canadian seal's head...) OR the redo them (the accountants where influence by Marketing telling them GKs pooped gold...). But if they redo them, you can be sure there will be some awesome plastics. When you see squads of 5 with weapons sprues permitting Psycannons, Incinerators, Swords/Axe/Halberd/Lance Nemesis Force Weapons, scrolls, heads, etc you'll want to buy quite a few and you'll find your metal models aside unless for that humongous Apocalypse game.

 

Same goes for Sisters... Put your money aside, you'll be happy if another codex comes out (or you can buy yourself a Plasma TV if it doesn't!)

 

Phil

[Inquisitor Fox]

I'd like to point out that Cadian Kasrkin (they're under the IG Elites section of the website) are Storm Troopers as well, and make perfect ISTs. They have a box of 10 for about $42, which works out to about $4.2 USD per figure. This is significantly better than the $7 per figure for the several editions old Storm Trooper models.

 

EDIT: Having just checked the GW Website (the US version) I found the following info:

 

4 old Storm Troopers: $4.25 USD per model ($17 for 4, granted you pay more for special weapons or sergeants)

10 man Kasrkin squad: $4.125 USD per model ($41.25 for 10, including sergeant, flamer, grenade launcher)

individual Kasrkin: $5.25 each (more for special weapons or sergeants)

 

Sooo.. not too bad really. Granted I'm a big IST fan, as evidenced by the 4 squads of them I own already...

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

etc you'll want to buy quite a few and you'll find your metal models aside unless for that humongous Apocalypse game.

Phil

The problem with that idea is what if the new models look horrible? what if whilst nice, the new models move away from what you like, or you just keep on using your old models?

My 2 main armies are Space wolves and Grey Knights, I have been playing wolves for 5 years now, so have plenty of old SW models, particually the old metal terminators, I, dispite likeing the wolf boxs, have not bought a single one, why? simple, I cannot justify to myself spending the money to replace my models, I already have more then enough space wolves, plus most of my models are conversions, either to the wolfy side, or as most of them, to an old armour MK, as well as that, I am sentimental, most of my models have a bit of history to them, especially my wolf guard, especially the terminators, sure they arn't conversions, but see that guy with the lightning claw and cyclone missile launcher? once fired a frag missile which proceded to scatter onto the terminator unit and killed one of his own pack brothers, the assault cannons? when I used them (new codex they cost too much) they had a reputation for at least a kill a turn each, even against marines, hey the whole squad once gunned down a Necron Immortal unit and moped up the survivors in combat, caused a phase out, likewise my Grey Knights have the Justicar in 2 ounds of combat took a Tevrigon down to 2W, sure it killed him and the squad, but the damage ment when it charged my Dread, the dread proceded to turn around and cut down the beastie, my Grand Master got charged by 2 units of 3 Tyranid Warriors after his Termis got gunned down, took them them 3 turns to take him down, one of is W's he lost to a perils of the warp and there was only a single 2W Warrior left of them.

I may have ranted, but I have point, each model has a history, memories of good and bad games attached to them, I do not understand the "its not the latest model, buy a new box set and leave your old ones to gather dust" mentality a lot of other wolf players seemed to show, sure, the old metal terminators were from 2nd Edition, they were nice, They had a charecter to their sculpts most new models don't posess, plus they were metal, they had a nice weight to them.

Also, there are several players at my LGS who keep saying Grey knights are overpowered, I take this is rare :P ?

[Momento Mori]

One of my son's friends has just gotten/bought a GK army on the advice of a GW redshirt;

 

Advice which came soley to get more cash out of you at the register. How much do the redshirts know? I think they know probably about the same as we do. I'm sorry that your son's buddy did that. This is the kind of thing that annoys me. I bought the last edition of 40K, and the guy selling it to me didn't mention anything about it being updated and released again less than 2 months later. I get that they have to make a buck, and that they want to sell sell sell, but when you have limited funds to spend on this hobby, which I love, it's a little frustrating.

[boreas]

Well, it's quite possible that those few models that have an history will be kept. They are, after all some of the best metal troop in the game (and the termies are even better). But really, once they start chipping of breaking, you'll keep playing with the plastic ones.

 

As for getting new ones, right now, its even worse. You have to pin them and make do with one in five model having an incinerator, which might not suit your playstyle. All that for not much to play with. And if you really like the old ones, they'll be available on eBay for years to come (and possibly cheaper once the hypothetical plastic ones come out...)

 

Phil

[Magnus Thane]

Despite the handicap i'm pressing on with collecting my GK's. They're fluffy, rare and gorgeous. And should the DH go the way of the Dodo. I may just use another SM codex. *shrugs* After all the money I'm spent i'm not going to push asside my little heroes. :)

[BlackDingo]

Well, it would appear that the GK call to arms is stronger than I thought... I just can't let them slide away.

 

Sooooo, after some consideration I did two things.

 

1) I traded my excess GK models for equal value in storm troopers. Now I have something to capture points with.

2) Gave my GK's some punch to their deployment. A Land Raider. NOT a crusader, just the regular tank killing type.

 

I wasn't sure if this was the best option, but if the whole thing goes wrong the LR can be repainted for my Marines and the IS become vets or stormies for my Guard.

 

Mind you, watching the smug grin slide off my opponents face when the LR was placed on the table was certainly worth it. :)

[brownie21o]

2) Gave my GK's some punch to their deployment. A Land Raider. NOT a crusader, just the regular tank killing type.

 

The Godhammer pattern can kill more than just tanks. Granted, it's ability to pick off annoyingly cheap transports is useful, don't forget it's just the ticket for those pesky t4 multi-wound models with a 2+.

[BlackDingo]

The Godhammer pattern can kill more than just tanks. Granted, it's ability to pick off annoyingly cheap transports is useful, don't forget it's just the ticket for those pesky t4 multi-wound models with a 2+.

 

:thanks: :)

 

Very Nice!

[Justicar Valius]

Crusaders bring anti hoard to the table and that vital multimelta. granted it can scre transports but cant we do that anyway with what we have?

[brownie21o]

Crusaders bring anti hoard to the table and that vital multimelta. granted it can scre transports but cant we do that anyway with what we have?

 

I've always just had an aversion to it, really. In order to make the multimelta more useful than the TL Lascannon, I have to be within 12" of whatever I'm shooting. Unless I have to be there, that is just a little too close to whatever is over there for my giant point sink to be sitting. If I have to be that close, I make damn sure it moved 12". When that's the case the Machine Spirit doesn't have the accuracy to make my multimelta pot-shot anywhere close to dependable.

 

The assault cannon and frag bits are dandy and I rarely turn down a chance to squeeze a multi-melta into any Imperial army, but, by my playing style, a bunch of bolters strapped together is hardly worth the points.

 

Lascannons kill the tanks, psycannons kill what's inside, and I can usually throw enough storm bolters and incinerators at a horde to at least make it manageable.

 

That said, if there are 180 Boyz/Guardsmen/etc on the other side of the table, maybe I would take a Crusader. At that point, however, I'm probably already expecting to lose.

[stoopicus]

You know that a crusader can move 12", fire both hurricane bolters, AND fire the multimelta, right? Bolter strength => defensive weapon => never move the thing less than max.

 

I play a LRR myself, but that's just because my friends are cool with FW rules.

 

Edit: and always take the storm bolter too <_<

[Gentlemanloser]

Don't forget the TL-AC on the LRC (which it can fire along with the Hurricane Bolter *and* Multi Metla, every turn, no matter how far it moves), which is statistically better at popping AV14 than a TLLC.

 

Overall a DH LRC is far and above the LRR as the better Tank. If you want TL-LC, buy some Dreads. :)

[Justicar Valius]

Crusaders bring anti hoard to the table and that vital multimelta. granted it can scre transports but cant we do that anyway with what we have?

When that's the case the Machine Spirit doesn't have the accuracy to make my multimelta pot-shot anywhere close to dependable.

Why? it's still BS4 which is good enough.

 

which is statistically better at popping AV14 than a TLLC.

Yeh if it has rending. Which it doesn't unless you are using the french codex (how mad is that? i could do a whole nerd rage paragraph about GW policy to our codex)

[DevianID]

Yeah in terms of a pure DH build, they are a fluffy build only, and like most other fluffy builds they suffer greatly.

 

A DH build with Stern+ GKGM + 2 crusaders, with a few firebase PAGK, is probably the best I can do for a strong build. The retinue rule, the old NFW, and many s6 attacks will do a number on a few things in cc, and the crusaders will help if the enemy doesnt spam too much melta.

 

As for a DH build without being too fluffy, I agree the poor heavy support and fast attack slots basicly turn the DH build into a subpar marine or IG list thanks to the allies system. Without allies, its even worse.

 

Spaming regular land raiders can win you some games with DH, as 5 raiders at 1500 is a good number. However this kind of list is not very fun to play, or play against. It comes down to playing rock paper scissors most of the time.

 

My 'for fun' GK list at 1750 was 30 GKT, 2 min IST, and 1 IG platoon. I liked the idea of a weak IG force barely holding out against the enemy until 30 GKT deep strike in and try to save the day. Thus, I would always deep strike the GK regardless of if it was a good idea or not; my mishap record is 20 GKT killing themselves in 1 turn on near max scatters in the only direction that could kill them.

[stoopicus]

How is it possible to take 5 LR at all, let alone at 1500?