SLD and SGD from the CSM Codex do not count as :DAEMON

[doshin]

I'm not %100 on where to post this but here goes.

 

I was noticing. Every unit in the Chaos Daemon army has the :DAEMON rule. There are plenty of other units that specifically have the :DAEMON rule as well that are outside the Chaos army (AVATAR for example). Even the Nurgle Blight Drone from the Imperial Armour books has :DAEMON rule.

 

You know what doesn't have the :DAEMON bullet point rule? Any of the would be, daemonic units in the current Chaos Space Marines Codex. That means that your wolf priest with his +2 to wound :DAEMONs weapon would have no effect on Summoned Lesser Daemons, Summoned Greater Daemons or Daemon Princes from the CSM book. They don't have the rule and do not gain the benefits of such so therefore are not subject to :DAEMON specific wargear.

 

There is really no argument around it. GW had many chances to amend this and has not. In 5th edition game terms the demon units in the CSM codex won't count as :DAEMON in game terms unless GW decides to change it. Plenty of time, FAQs and Chapter approved articles since then. I honestly believe that they realize how much CSM players are getting the bone right now so they just let that one go.

 

In reality it might affect a few dice rolls needing to be a +4 instead of a +2. It is the principle that matters. If you want to wound :DAEMONs go find a guy playing DAEMONs. Not the guy who has had to replace his entire army 4 times in the last ten years because GW hates their customers.

 

HEY GW! What about this 20 model unit of DAEMONIC Cavalry I purchased from you at $20 + Dollars per model? What about those huh? OR What about the Noise Marine Terminators with Noise Marine Weapons that we all spent $250.00 to build ONE UNIT???!?!!?!?

 

Yup, you, your wargear list, and the horse you rode in on. :P :D XD

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Emperor protect, here we go again.

[Isiah]

The 'Daemon' bullet point you mention is there because it's a generic term in the Codex: Daemons that covers all their special rules in one convenient hit i.e: Fearless, Invulnerable, Daemon Assault etc etc rather than laboriously list them. It is not defining what a Daemon is per se.

 

So that special rule isn't to be confused by a model that is called a Daemon X or an X Daemon. The clue there is in the name.

 

The only real RAW issue with Daemons is with the Daemonhunters Codex, where it lists a range of models/units that are officially "daemons" from a GK point of view. Unfortunately, very few of those listed now still exist in the current game!!

 

Cheers

I

[doshin]

Awesome. I'll take a look at the list and get back to you.

[Ntin]

The only surviving Chaos Daemon units are both types in Codex: Chaos Marine and Nurglings in Codex: Chaos Daemons.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Also the blood thirster, great unclean one, keeper of secrets, and Lords of change are still listed under the heading of Greater deamons in deamons codex, and thus will count for DeamonHunter gear.

[Ntin]

They are not the unit Greater Daemon as in the Codex: Chaos Marine 3.5 though.

[Bartali]

I'd hit anyone who tried to claim something called a "xxxxx Daemon" isn't a Daemon with a Dread sock

[Ntin]

RAW they are not. This seems to come up a few times a month now. Chaos Daemons are not considered to be daemons for the purposes of the Codex: Daemon Hunter’s “Daemon Terminology” rule and the “Daemonic Infestation” Rule. You may house rule in your home or club anyway you feel fit that is RAI, not RAW.

[Legatus]

Perhaps the name, or even the clearly described nature of a unit, should have some rule value? If a unit had the special rule "preferred enemy" specifically against Orks, would that rule then be useless since no unit in Codex Orks is declared to be an "ork"? Should that rule work against obviously orkish units? Even if that unit was maybe not taking from Codex Orks but perhaps from a White Dwarf Bloodaxe mercenary list?

[Hlakir]

The Daemons from Codex: CSM won't get the Sustained Assault either.... wait, what's that? Oh, right, it doesn't exist anymore. That was part of the balance for the Daemonhunter rules against Daemons and now it doesn't exist.

[stinkenheim]

yeah but there also no characters with more than 50pts of daemonic gifts or daemonic stature (they used to count as daemons too), so the grey knights rules effect alot less than they used to.

also grey knights are hideously expensive, and yes they are hard but the whole DH codex stuggles in the current system.

 

either wy, the OPs point was with regards to rune priests and the runic weapons abilities to wound daemons on a 2+.

there is no mention in the Runic Weapon rules of it wounding any model with the 'Daemon' Special rule on a 2+ merely Daemons. as people have already said, if summoned lesser DAEMONS are not daemons then what are they, fluffy kittens?

unlike C:DH there is no 'list' of what constitutes a daemon, so some common sense has to be applied (i realise that not everyone likes that and no i can't provide a rules quote for common sense) and any unit called XXX Daemon or Daemon XXX is a daemon regardless of whether it has a special rule or not.