Getting it off my chest

[Jonny Wolf]

So,

 

Canis - No invul

Njal - Initiative 4, half his powers don't work if you go second

Wolf Priest - preferred enemy ONLY against a specific type, initiative four, Ulrik's wolf helm only works if he is specifically attacked with no mod to the leadership test and only on Indie Characters (typically ldrship 10 anyway)

Drop Pods/Land Raider - 10 Man capacity not twelve

Arjac - 188 points

Lucas - cool fluff, a cloak that doesn't work until nobody is with him, too expensive

No special tanks/dreadnaughts/flyers

Blood Claws are STILL WS3 - this I feel flies in the face of the fluff - these guys are drowned as babies if they don't grasp the axe...and they're WS3?

To make our WL's comensurate with Ragnar/Logan, it will cost you as much as a hero character without the cool rules (build a WL like Logan, see if I'm wrong)

We only got for new models: NJAL in Termie Armor, Canis (which in my opinion is ugly), Lukas and the LC Wolf Guard...

Our psychic powers are hardly that great - high AP (too include Njal's weather effects)

Wolf Guard even after the SECOND FAQ STILL CAN'T join sky claws.

Bjorn - no drop pod, gives 3 kill points if he's not in base with a space wolf at the end of the game - who would seriously take him in a tourney?

 

Fluff:

Canis beat up a Wolf Lord????

 

Things I believed they did well:

Thunderwolves - but about 5 to 10 points too expensive (nob bikerz are cheaper I believe and get more goodies)

Njal's Rune Staff

New GH/BC and Termie Sprues.

Lone Wolves - but, and I can't speak for others, I only get one if I have some points left over - he is not a key component/planning factor in an army build

[Prosedragon]

Space Wolves: useful troops choice

Space Marines: expensive, dull bullet catchers

 

I understand being bitter about the Blood Angels one upping you in terms of brokenness and codex creep and all that, but in the end you have a cool codex. Rant and rave a little bit, then look at your wolves and smile when you remember why you picked them in the first place.

[Ullr Direfang]

I have to agree with most ofthe SCs. I feel that they were not really thought out well, and any of the upgrade characters i will never use. we lost our tank, kind of sad. would of liked to have seen the ws4 BCs. i really don't like the I4 WP and RP. also the seemingly ranged play style of RP is a big downer for me.

And i would of loved to have seen new models for some of the SCs, after seeing what the BA are getting i feel kind of jaded about it (and don't tell me they deserve them, because we did too).

 

Most of what you like i like too. I kind of wish i could figure a way to use TWC in a list i would like, they just seem high in points for what i want them to do.

 

for me it isn't even what it seems the BA are going to get rule wise. over the years i have learned to accept that new codex's will one up the last one out, i just feel that a lot of things could have been thought through more.

[AdeptusDavidus]

Blood Claws are STILL WS3 - this I feel flies in the face of the fluff - these guys are drowned as babies if they don't grasp the axe...and they're WS3?

 

That's right, sir! New inductees into the Space Wolves are only as skilled in close combat as Imperial storm troopers and veterans - men who have seen hundreds of horrifying conflicts, the most elite humans in the galaxy. Pathetic, I know.

 

If that comparison doesn't suit you, try out the comparison to Space Marine Scouts. Don't kid yourself - Space Wolf initiates are no tougher than the initiates of any other Chapter. Space Marines in general recruit brutish, violent, sociopaths, and the people of Fenris don't have some magic formula for creating such folk. Rather, just like most death worlds, only tough people can survive, and the local Chapter just recruits the toughest.

[Kenmichi]

Even with WS3, 15 Blood Claws have about 45 attacks on the charge depending on your loadout, and that isn't including an IC or Wolf Guard which is mandatory for a Blood Claw pack with that much investment.

[AdeptusDavidus]

I think 60 attacks is your starting point with a charging 15-man Blood Claw pack, not accounting for special weapons or attached Wolf Guard or characters. It's 45 if you get the Counter-Attack. Law of averages says that being hit by a Blood Claw charge hurts, and charging them isn't the best idea ever.

[Night Runner]

I don't mind BC being WS 3. First of all they are still learning to fight like a Space Marine. Don't forget that the Imperial Guard are on average WS 3 as well. Secondly the WS 3 for initiates is the same throughout the Space Marine Chapters - there is coherency. Remember when in 3rd and 4th Scouts had WS4. That was a pill I just could not swollow.

 

I have to sympathize with the OP. I think 5th ed is the best rule wise, but I am seeing a tendency from GW to overdo SC. They try very hard to give different special rules to different characters trying to keep them original as possible. Sometimes they come up with near useless abilities w.r.t point cost or game functionality. I think they are doing this at the expense of the game balance, design and coherency as a whole. The last thing I want to see is a return to HeroHammer, where characters can wipe out whole units instead of giving units an edge in play. From where I stand Herohammer-type of play is for children, a whole generation has grown up with the game and would like to see it mature as well.

 

I appreciate and I am grateful to GW to try and make armies as characterful and as exciting as possible but I think they need to learn to take a step back and make sure they don't repeat the same mistakes of the past (basically overdoing it). A good example is deep-striking Land Raiders. This is Sci-Fi, but where will it end?

[The Good Ship Naglfar]

I haven't used ordinary Bloodclaws, but I love my unit of Skyclaws. Against MEQs, WS3 hits just as often as WS4. With the extra attack 'Claws of any flavor are very effective on the charge. Combined with a Wolf Priest they are one of my favorite units. Against infantry (which is always my preferred enemy) he turns half of their misses into hits. And since they're a dedicated anti-infantry unit anyway, the limited scope of his special ability doesn't matter.

 

Arjac's one of my favorites too. It's hard not to like a kitted out Wolf Guard Battle Leader who can't be singled out in close combat. I like to put him in a Drop Pod with 8 Grey Hunters, and land them at one end of my opponents' position. The Hunters usually get shredded, but Arjac seems to reliably make it into CC with at least a few companions and he wreaks havoc once he gets there. It's a great way to occupy my opponents' attention while the Skyclaws, Thunderwolves and my remaining Grey Hunters close the gap.

 

The codex isn't perfect (Lukas, you slacker, I'm thinking of you when I say that), but there's a lot of good stuff in there. I may feel differently when the novelty wears off, but for now I really enjoy my new army.

[LoneSniperSG]

I think 60 attacks is your starting point with a charging 15-man Blood Claw pack, not accounting for special weapons or attached Wolf Guard or characters. It's 45 if you get the Counter-Attack. Law of averages says that being hit by a Blood Claw charge hurts, and charging them isn't the best idea ever.

 

Hmm. unless it's Death Company or a Furioso, or Furioso Death Company dreadnought doing the charging.

 

I appreciate and I am grateful to GW to try and make armies as characterful and as exciting as possible but I think they need to learn to take a step back and make sure they don't repeat the same mistakes of the past (basically overdoing it). A good example is deep-striking Land Raiders. This is Sci-Fi, but where will it end?

 

Yeah but.. that D/S Land Raider is probably being brought in via Thunderhawk, which is something we can also do thanks to Forge World.

 

Sci-Fi (or Science Fantasy, whichever your view) is the form of the game. For cripes sake, we have werewolf space vikings, driving futuristic, modified M113 tanks, riding massive Wolves and motorbike holding off living, breathing, screaming, shooting fungus, a dying space elf race, a sadistic space elf race, space communists with large noses, mutated nightmare-worshipping cretins and robots with guns that rip away your atoms.

 

 

.. And a deep-striking Land Raider bugs you?

[HERO]

I disagree with most points.. I love our codex.

 

But hey, vent it out man. Vent it all out..

[Night Runner]

I appreciate and I am grateful to GW to try and make armies as characterful and as exciting as possible but I think they need to learn to take a step back and make sure they don't repeat the same mistakes of the past (basically overdoing it). A good example is deep-striking Land Raiders. This is Sci-Fi, but where will it end?

 

Yeah but.. that D/S Land Raider is probably being brought in via Thunderhawk, which is something we can also do thanks to Forge World.

 

Sci-Fi (or Science Fantasy, whichever your view) is the form of the game. For cripes sake, we have werewolf space vikings, driving futuristic, modified M113 tanks, riding massive Wolves and motorbike holding off living, breathing, screaming, shooting fungus, a dying space elf race, a sadistic space elf race, space communists with large noses, mutated nightmare-worshipping cretins and robots with guns that rip away your atoms.

 

 

.. And a deep-striking Land Raider bugs you?

And God bless it all, it's why I love the mythos and game so much! But all that is just fluff. It can be as weird as you like it. Just because our warriors are werewolf vikings does not give or take anything from the rules unless the designer wants it too. In our codex it transcribes as acute senses, counter-charge and MOTW. Instead of TWC we could of gotten a special vehicle that gave us similar game functionality. What bothers me is when they build rules around fluff instead of fluff around rules. That is when good game balance, mechanics and coherence start to erode and go down the drain.

 

Maybe GW need to strike a balance between the invention of fluff and rules development, besides trying to balance a codex. An example would be giving Mephiston ridiculous Primarch level stats and then formulating more rules to balance him off codex-wise and game-play-wise.

[LoneSniperSG]

.. Dude, that just doesn't work. The game at its core is ( and always has been) storytelling, like Warhammer Fantasy, and our sacred root, D&D before that.

 

It's not about the shooting, the acute senses, and the deep-striking raider. It's about the story first, and everything else second. I can't count how many times GW has stated this as their ethos.

 

During creation, no one sat around and said "hey, I wish I had a guy with a 3+ armor save and acute senses to wail on these other guys with 3+ armor saves and marks of evil."

 

Instead it was "Hey, I want to see a power-armored space viking wail on the champion of Khorne."

 

Then the rules came.

[Night Runner]

I think you are referring to concept not story (which comes after) in that case you would have a point. In fact I was refering to concept when I mentioned game design. But it is here we disagree, because I don't believe that it should be the story first and the rest second. I would be content if GW struck a balance, even though I'd personally prefer they'd first make good sensible rules and game design, then formulate fluff.

 

P.S. Thanks for the discussion :lol:

[Spacefrisian]

I only miss a Wulfen entry for the rest i think they did a good job.

[Decoy]

Editted out. N/T. Disagree with OP, can elaborate later.

[Max_Dammit]

I only miss a Wulfen entry for the rest i think they did a good job.

 

And this could be fixed by not limiting the number of MOTW on Wolfguard.

[littlbitz]

I don't really have any gripes at all, I've been playing the Wolves since 2nd ed. and I think of the 3 this is by far the best codex to date.

 

Nothing cooler than having a full ten man GH pack led by a Terminator with an Assault Cannon, with a Thunder Wolf behind them in support.

 

Its just cool...

[AcidBurn]

the only real moan i have is that Jaws cant affect vehicles even though it can affect things as big as carnifexes and hive tyrants, ehat the hells up with that?

[CainTheHunter]

the only real moan i have is that Jaws cant affect vehicles even though it can affect things as big as carnifexes and hive tyrants, ehat the hells up with that?

 

 

For the first thing - vehicles have no Initiative value.

[AcidBurn]

i understand that but they could have worked some extra rule otu fro vehicles

 

its like oh a Fex can fall down a massive crack in the ground but a rhino magicaly floats over it? :(

[Max_Dammit]

Move away from the line D6 and treat as difficult terrain, so 1 is immobile?

[Hfran Morkai]

The one thing that I'm a little upset about is our Scouts.

 

Firstly we have no shotguns for them, although there was that lovely piece of artwork which actually featured in the release WD

Secondly, no camo cloaks, apparently it's possible for other chapters to have an entire company utilizing them but we can't even find thirty? (I understand this is a balance issue, our Scouts are much more evil than codex scouts)

 

And everyone should know about the loss of additional SCCW's

 

But apart from that I like the codex.

[Coverfire]

In your opinion would it really be overpowered if Thunderwolf Cavalry and Canis Wolfborn kept their rending special rule with special weapons?

 

They could have at less let Canis use meltabombs (a inv save would have been nice too)

[Hfran Morkai]

In fact, I know the worst thing about our codex period.

 

People complaining we didn't deserve one and their book which happened to only be a couple of years old deserved a codex so much more, that's my pet peeve.

 

We waited nine years for this book and I'm glad I am so happy with it, because otherwise I might have collected a new army, something guaranteed love.

 

Then there's the people who don't think Space Wolves deserve a codex at all, because "they're just marines".

 

Honestly, I think that's the worst thing.

[whitewolfmxc]

In fact, I know the worst thing about our codex period.

 

People complaining we didn't deserve one and their book which happened to only be a couple of years old deserved a codex so much more, that's my pet peeve.

 

We waited nine years for this book and I'm glad I am so happy with it, because otherwise I might have collected a new army, something guaranteed love.

 

Then there's the people who don't think Space Wolves deserve a codex at all, because "they're just marines".

 

Honestly, I think that's the worst thing.

 

Totally agree, plus the worst part some players till today still think our army is overpowered to the top.........sign.......