This month's questions:

[Seahawk]

Greetings gents. I have a round of sticky issues from a variety of topics that I'd like to get answered, or answered better than where assumed answers are given.

 

Issue 1: Independent Characters

Character joins a squad, easy. None are fearless. Now, the squad gets blown away, leaving the character. Since he is still technically part of the squad (as you can't join or leave except in the owner's movement phase), he now takes a leadership check, right? Here's our understanding of the rules:

 

Character, for all intents and purposes (except close combat, not the issue though) counts as just another member of the squad. He cannot leave said squad until his next movement phase. Squad gets shot up, he's only one left. As he is, for all intents and purposes, a member of that squad which suffered more than 25% casualties, he now takes a Morale check.

 

Now, if that is correct (which we think it is), then if he fails he falls back...by himself, ha. The next bit is for armies that don't have ATSKNF: as he is part of a unit that is under 50%, he now cannot rally and so flees off the table. In the BRB it also says specifically that characters cannot leave a fleeing unit.

 

Issue 2: Pulsa Rokkits and Fearless interaction

The big Orky Pulsa Rokkit, as one of its effects, does the following: "All units within x inches must automatically go to ground, if able to..."

Fearless says: "Fearless troops automatically pass all Morale and Pinning checks they are required to take,...They can however go to ground voluntarily."

 

Would the Pulsa Rokkit send fearless models to the ground? On one hand it does, since it is not a pinning check to make and so bypasses fearless. On the other, such troops can only go to ground voluntarily, but as is typical with GW they leave out situations like this. What happens if forced to go to ground when normally they can't be forced, as the only typical way is via pinning checks? My stance leans toward not going down but that may be wishful thinking.

 

Issue 3: Psychic hoods

The Space Marine codex limits their hood usage to only one Librarian per turn.

 

The Daemonhunter codex did not limit their hood usage at all. The Adepticon INAT FAQ decided to change the rule entirely so you could only use one Daemonhunter hood per turn.

 

So, if I had a SM Librarian and GKGM with hood, following RAW and crazy FAQing I can use both against each enemy power used (provided the marine one is in range). My reasoning is that I'm not breaking any of the rules, ie only one librarian is using a hood and only one daemonhunter hood is being used. Alternatively, if I wasn't using the INAT FAQ, I could use as many Daemonhunter hoods per enemy power as I feel like.

 

Issue 4: Going to Ground

So, a unit goes to ground. In the open, this produces a cover save. Obviously they are in no cover at all, but they still get a 6+ cover save. This cover save can be taken against any wound...except template weapons of course, but that is not the issue. This time it is Tau Smart Missile Systems. They do not require line of sight to shoot a target, and pretty much ignore cover unless you're in it. Here's how it's clarified in the INAT FAQ:

 

"As the weapon does not require line of sight, they may only claim a cover save if at least half of their models are actually in terrain, touching a piece of intervening terrain, or otherwise have a cover save not based on line of sight (like turboboosting, etc)."

 

I think the answer is obvious: going to ground produces a 6+ save no matter what (excepting template weapons, which this is not) and it falls under the "otherwise have a save not based on line of sight."

 

 

 

So, is all that correct? If not, why not? Thoughts?

[Koremu]

Greetings gents. I have a round of sticky issues from a variety of topics that I'd like to get answered, or answered better than where assumed answers are given.

 

Issue 1: Independent Characters

Character joins a squad, easy. None are fearless. Now, the squad gets blown away, leaving the character. Since he is still technically part of the squad (as you can't join or leave except in the owner's movement phase), he now takes a leadership check, right? Here's our understanding of the rules:

 

Character, for all intents and purposes (except close combat, not the issue though) counts as just another member of the squad. He cannot leave said squad until his next movement phase. Squad gets shot up, he's only one left. As he is, for all intents and purposes, a member of that squad which suffered more than 25% casualties, he now takes a Morale check.

 

Now, if that is correct (which we think it is), then if he fails he falls back...by himself, ha. The next bit is for armies that don't have ATSKNF: as he is part of a unit that is under 50%, he now cannot rally and so flees off the table. In the BRB it also says specifically that characters cannot leave a fleeing unit.

 

He can't be said to be "in" a Squad once it ceases to exist. My interpretation here would be that he still has to take the Leadership check for the Squad being blown away around him (as this is a consequence of the Squad he was a part of losing over the casualty threshold), but once the phase is over he's no longer part of the Squad and acts as a normal IC.

[Frosty the Pyro]

I am with Kormu on the IC bit.

 

Also the fearless will not protect agaisnt the pulsa rocket. Fearless does not say they may only go to ground volentarily, it just clarifies that they can. Therefor anything that could make them go to ground via any method other than a pinning check still works.

[greatcrusade08]

I think you have it all right except the IC thing.. i dont think he would count as being in the squad past losing the combat, when you come to rally them and determine if they are under half strength you would notice hes a lone IC and would be ableto rally again.

 

the pulas rockets wont force the fearless troops to do anything unless they volunatarily do it IMO

 

Psychic hoods sounds about right to me as does cover save as its a cover save no related to LOS as specified under the weapons rules

[Frosty the Pyro]

the pulas rockets wont force the fearless troops to do anything unless they volunatarily do it IMO

 

This works by neither fules nor fluff. There is no pinning test, so being fearless will not automaticly pass it, anything that can cause uints to go to ground outside of pinning tests will effect fearless units, so it does not protect via rules. Its not a fear/mental based attack, it is physical shaking of the ground, no matter how mentaly conditioned you are, you are still going to be shook up, so fluff doesnt help (and as pulsa rockets are apocalypse units fluff actualy matters too).

[greatcrusade08]

This works by neither fules nor fluff. There is no pinning test, so being fearless will not automaticly pass it, anything that can cause uints to go to ground outside of pinning tests will effect fearless units, so it does not protect via rules. Its not a fear/mental based attack, it is physical shaking of the ground, no matter how mentaly conditioned you are, you are still going to be shook up, so fluff doesnt help (and as pulsa rockets are apocalypse units fluff actualy matters too).

 

I see what you mean it isnt a pining test so much as a forced "go to ground" effect, which has no counter.. you cant choose to pass the pinning test becuase its not a pinning test

[Seahawk]

It's going to be tough explaining how an IC is no longer part of the unit by RAW, as GW left it as a blind spot, albeit one that can be filled with common sense obviously. Does anyone have good lines to use?

 

Aight, we figured the same on the Rokkit. Just makes sense they fall down.

 

How about the last two?

[Koremu]

It's going to be tough explaining how an IC is no longer part of the unit by RAW, as GW left it as a blind spot, albeit one that can be filled with common sense obviously. Does anyone have good lines to use?

|Like I said, once the unit isn't there, how can the IC be a part of it? The rulebook itself says something along the lines of "ICs are a part of the unit as long as they remain within 2" of another member of the unit.", which is quite hard to do when there isn't one.

[Hellios]

On the pulsa rocket note... there was a special mission that had tectonic shifts and they could pin anyone even fearless units, because as it stated on the mission sheet being fearless won't save you from being thrown off your feet. I know this isn't RAW but IMO the same thing applies... and RAW fearless units can go to ground... as previously stated.

[Seahawk]

Take my example, Koremu. It's established that if the squad gets killed he has to take the Morale Check. If he fails, he flees. Next turn, now what? He is still a part of a fleeing unit that went under 50%, as characters cannot leave units when they are fleeing, which was the case.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you on how it should happen, but GW didn't write in what happens in this instance, so we have to go with what rules we do have. Is he (a) part of the unit that's fleeing? Does it end? At least, we haven't been able to find it.

[DuncanSpence]

Bullet 1 on P48 states that an IC is joined to a unit when he is found to be in coherency with that unit at the end of their movement phase. It is not a matter for choice by the player - in coherency you are joined to a unit, out of coherency you are not joined to a unit.

 

If every other member of the unit has been killed, the IC cannot be in coherency with that unit at the end of the first movement phase after the last member of the unit has been killed. Whilst he has not left the unit (as per bullet 7), the unit has in effect left him.

 

So he will make 2 fall back moves (1 immediately on failing the test and 1 in the next movement phase) and may then attempt to rally in the next movement phase.

 

Just my thoughts.