A theory about the missing two legions

[mob16151]

If you look, in False Gods while Horus is in the chamber with the nascent Primarchs. He recognizes ones that failed to become living breathing Primarch Brothers. Although I'd certainly think that GW left them open originally for DIY minded players, the book seems to point to Primarch Recipe's that just didn't turn out.

 

 

Yea but in Mechanicum Dorn and Malcador imply that the 2 missing primarchs are around but "unavailable".

[Verythrax Draconis]

If you look, in False Gods while Horus is in the chamber with the nascent Primarchs. He recognizes ones that failed to become living breathing Primarch Brothers. Although I'd certainly think that GW left them open originally for DIY minded players, the book seems to point to Primarch Recipe's that just didn't turn out.

 

 

Yea but in Mechanicum Dorn and Malcador imply that the 2 missing primarchs are around but "unavailable".

 

While I agree that the 2 missiong legions "happened" - the fluff is clear telling that those 2 primarchs were found and their legions participate in the crusade in some extent - you interpretation is a bit faulty. Like I pointed in another of those "missing primarch" threads, the text is vague on purpose. We can interpret Dorn mention to them as just wishful thinking (what Malcador rebukes him, cause he knows that they are lost). And the "lost" bit can be several things, from "completely unavailable, like destroyed, whatever", or just "inaccessible, they are anathema, don't ever think about that".

 

But it gives an overall, vague idea that they could be counted as loyalists, if they were still around at the time of heresy.

[Midwest]

The only problem I have with the two missing Legions being the result of gene-seed failure is their expunging from the history books.

 

You still have the two Legions, even without their Primarchs. Given that the Imperial records officially still retain the names of those Legions that openly rebelled during the Heresy, declaring them Excommunicate Traitorus, I find it really hard to believe that simply not having a Primarch is grounds to completely deny all history and details of these Legions' existence.

 

Even if they were simply absorbed into other Legions (doubtful, given the genetic nature of how Legionnaires are attached to their Primarchs), it makes more sense to still have their names listed in the record of the first 20, with a note indicating the ultimate fate of the Legion (e.g. disbandment, eventual dying out, etc.).

 

If the Legions themselves never existed - i.e., if the two potential Primarchs were so genetically unstable that they "died out" before the Emperor could even begin culling a gene-line from them to make their Legions, then why retain such severely expunged records of Legions that didn't even exist? Seems more logical you'd just have a first founding of 18 Legions, representing the actual 18 gene-lines that succeeded in developing both a Primarch and related Legion of Marines.

 

Plus consider this: IF we accept the HH novels as canonical, the reactions of the "good" Astartes to the warrior lodges is that they subvert the Emperor's authority and the Imperial Truth due to their secret nature. In Flight of the Eisenstein, for example, Garro seems to immediately suspect the lodges of being potential threats, as he forces Voyen to swear that if he's ever asked to go against the Emperor, he'll leave his lodge. Garro knows nothing of the lodges, yet immediately suspects them of having the potential for the worst possible betrayal right from the beginning. Also, I believe it's Garro (or maybe Loken or someone else) who argues that the Great Crusade will only work if the Imperial Truth is brought to the rest of humanity out in the open, free of secrecy or anything else, which he also accuses the lodges of undermining.

 

My point being...the Emperor doesn't seem the type to have so severely censored the records of two Legions simply due to the genetic failure of their Primarchs and/or gene-line (again, not sure if "Primarch failure" also means no Legion could be made either). To include the names of the Traitor Legions and their Primarchs, but not these two, means these two must have done something very very very BIG to warrant such treatment, and simply failing their genetic stability just doesn't cut it for me.

[Raven Angel]

Well acording to the list of Legions posted in the latest version of the Dark Angels codex the status of the 2nd and 11th legions is "All records expunged from libray--order originaton unkown". This implies that the Emperor didn't order the records expunged and doesn't actually tell us when the eracing actually happend.

[Raulmichile]

Well acording to the list of Legions posted in the latest version of the Dark Angels codex the status of the 2nd and 11th legions is "All records expunged from libray--order originaton unkown". This implies that the Emperor didn't order the records expunged and doesn't actually tell us when the eracing actually happend.

 

 

... or maybe that the Emperor ordered it AFTER being connected to the Golden Throne for some unfathomable reason, overriding any sanctioning procedure by "lesser humans" like the High Lords or Inquisitors. What I ever have thought about this is that the deeds and whereabouts of these two legions didn't make it to the 41st millenium but maybe in M32 or M34 some high ranking people still knew about them. That we don't know when the erasing happened it doesn't mean they weren't kicking butts in Crusade or Heresy times, just that by now any record has been expugned and any remembrance lost over time.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

a couple years ago i had an idea that followed along those lines just minus the wolves. in my idea horus wasent the first primarch to be discovered but instead there were already two who had been found and joined with there legions. one of the legions turned on the emperor and the other was forced to destroy it. in the end both legions were wiped out from the brutal warfare and to keep the idea of rebellion secret the emperor ordered all records of the two primarchs as well as there legions expunged from imperial history.

 

of course this is just my idea

[Spacefrisian]

Just found 1 of the 2. Hes on Cocoon in ff13. "Primarch Barthandelus"

[The_son_of_Dorn]

whilst i like the idea of two missing primarch's coming back from the brink and fighting in the final battle i dont think it will ever happen.

 

I also doubt the "emp had this planned from the start" mainly because he loved all his sons and knew that their loyalty and obedience would help to create a stronger imperium.

 

Even when Horus was corrupted and killed many billions as a result the emperor still held back.

 

If the emperor did have them put down they must of seriously cocked something up BIG time. (im talking using the fountain of eternal youth & life to wash their shiny power armour big time!)

 

But there are huge contradictions- such as why would the emperor send russ knowning the hatred between him & magnus? Why not send a neutral primarch like mortarion or dorn? why ignore such a serious impending threat? - Know as we know Magnus was the one intended to one day sit upon the golden throne and be the guiding light and beacon of the imperium so he would not sacraficed him so eagerly.

 

The only logical reason i can think of is that the lost primarchs were found by another species first (eldar for example) and were killed or hidden away.

 

or say tyranids...........and the hive mind is actually a super spyker primarch who was forced to navigate the horrors of warp space from infancy thus granting him super awsome powers...................but this seems 99.9% unlikely.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

whilst i like the idea of two missing primarch's coming back from the brink and fighting in the final battle i dont think it will ever happen.

 

I also doubt the "emp had this planned from the start" mainly because he loved all his sons and knew that their loyalty and obedience would help to create a stronger imperium.

 

Even when Horus was corrupted and killed many billions as a result the emperor still held back.

 

If the emperor did have them put down they must of seriously cocked something up BIG time. (im talking using the fountain of eternal youth & life to wash their shiny power armour big time!)

 

But there are huge contradictions- such as why would the emperor send russ knowning the hatred between him & magnus? Why not send a neutral primarch like mortarion or dorn? why ignore such a serious impending threat? - Know as we know Magnus was the one intended to one day sit upon the golden throne and be the guiding light and beacon of the imperium so he would not sacraficed him so eagerly.

 

The only logical reason i can think of is that the lost primarchs were found by another species first (eldar for example) and were killed or hidden away.

 

or say tyranids...........and the hive mind is actually a super spyker primarch who was forced to navigate the horrors of warp space from infancy thus granting him super awsome powers...................but this seems 99.9% unlikely.