Lazare Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Hello all, I was wondering - given that Rage units must move as fast as they can to the enemy how does that work with getting into transport. (or does it?) I know the unit can be in a dedicated transport (and therefore you can move them) but once they are out can they get back in? Can they enter a transport at stat of movement or do they have to move towards enemy then get in or can they not get in at all because they have to move towards enemy and not embark at all? Cheers. MVL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSpike Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 While not directly addressing Rage, the Ork FAQ talks of Mad Doc Grotsnik's rule, which is similar: Q. Can Grotsnik board a vehicle if doing so willget him closer to the nearest enemy than if he moved normally? A. In the spirit of the rule, if embarking in a vehicle will not prevent him from charging that turn and will also get him closer to the nearest enemy than moving normally that turn, he may do that. Once aboard, the vehicle must always move in such a way as to move as fast as possible towards the closest enemy and allow Grotsnik to disembark and charge the closest enemy as soon as possible. Basically, yes, you can board a transport, but must still try to move towards the foe and engage in assault as fast as possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2315824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I would say no. Models embarked in a transport ignore rage, and it would be very wrong to load into a transport so you can run away. The only way I can see you getting back into a transport is if no enemies are visable (in which case rage is ignored. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2315914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazare Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 Yeah I had a feeling so; looks like once the 'dogs' are loose they're loose. Haha. MVL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2315946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 The only way I can see you getting back into a transport is if no enemies are visable (in which case rage is ignored. Use the Rhino to block their LOS? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2316707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 The only way I can see you getting back into a transport is if no enemies are visable (in which case rage is ignored. Use the Rhino to block their LOS? :lol: Kind of like a 40K pacifier! "RRRAAAAFGH! KILL THEM ALL!" *gnashes teeth, brandishes chainsword* *Rhino drives up* "Oooh, new paint job! Nice work, Techmarine Bob!" *stares blankly at the armor plating* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2324458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachboy Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I have a quick question concerning the Rage rule. Does a unit with rage have to assault the closest visible enemy, (even if it can't hurt it)? Cheers, Roachboy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2331479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 As long as it is the closest visible unit, yes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2331554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I have a quick question concerning the Rage rule. Does a unit with rage have to assault the closest visible enemy, (even if it can't hurt it)? Cheers, Roachboy Rage only means you have to move towards the nearest visible unit in the movement phase, run towards them if you chose to in the shooting phase and consolidate towards the nearest unit at the end of the assault phase. tere is no mention of being required to asault the nearest which would imply that you can charge whoever you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2331900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I have a quick question concerning the Rage rule. Does a unit with rage have to assault the closest visible enemy, (even if it can't hurt it)? Cheers, Roachboy Rage only means you have to move towards the nearest visible unit in the movement phase, run towards them if you chose to in the shooting phase and consolidate towards the nearest unit at the end of the assault phase. tere is no mention of being required to asault the nearest which would imply that you can charge whoever you want. But remember that, as per the Assault Rules, you must try and engage as many enemy as possible during an Assault - no holding back! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2332132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 yeah but nothing forces you to assault multiple targets. the thing about engaging as many enemies means you can't assault and have only 1 model in combat to minimise potential casualties, you have to get as many into base contact as possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2332203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 yeah but nothing forces you to assault multiple targets. the thing about engaging as many enemies means you can't assault and have only 1 model in combat to minimise potential casualties, you have to get as many into base contact as possible. Actually, if there are multiple units in such a position that you can Assault them while remaining in coherency, then yes you DO have to engage multiple units if you want to Assault at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2332217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 For some reason the specifics of the Rage USR seem to be elusive. Movement phase: Must move as fast as possible (i.e. full rate) toward the closest visible enemy. Shooting phase: If the unit Runs, it must run toward the closest visible enemy. Assault: When Consolidating the unit must consolidate toward the nearest visible enemy. These restrictions are ignored when: The unit is falling back The unit is embarked in a transport There are no enemy units visible There is nothing that says the unit must assault nor does it say that they must assault the nearest enemy unit. Forced movement in earlier phases will more than likely remove any choice in the matter but a unit with Rage could just stand there during the Assault phase even if there is a unit within assault distance that is visible to the unit. Also, the examples above concerning intervening, friendly vehicles are a bit silly but are perfectly legal. So either the vehicle blocks LoS to all enemies or lies directly in the path between the Raging unit & nearest enemies. There’s no restriction that says the Raging unit can’t embark that I'm aware of. Argh! Hey? See those guys? Run at them!!! Argh! Who parked this Rhino in our way? Argh! Get out of the way or we’ll run right through you! *Raging unit jumps on board* Argh! Hey! The exit is locked from the outside! *Access point closes* Argh! Uh, who were we going to run at again? Argh! Don’t know. I sure don’t see anyone to run at. Argh! Well, ok then, ask the stewardess for some peanuts & a coke. What? They only serve diet!?! AAAARRRRRRRGHHHHHH! Or that’s the way I see it. -OMG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2332403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparhawk Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 What if you place a transport in such a way as to ensure that the unit will end it's movement within 2" of its access points thereby fulifilling both the requirements of rage and the requirements for embarking on a transport? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2332418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 yeah but nothing forces you to assault multiple targets. the thing about engaging as many enemies means you can't assault and have only 1 model in combat to minimise potential casualties, you have to get as many into base contact as possible. Actually, if there are multiple units in such a position that you can Assault them while remaining in coherency, then yes you DO have to engage multiple units if you want to Assault at all. i would be really interested in seeing where this is in the rage rules. or is it part of the assault rules, because i really don't think that you are forced to assault multiple units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2332424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparhawk Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 My understanding of the Assault rule is that it was meant to ensure that the maximum number of models for both the attacker and defender are engaged at any one time, not that I would have to assault your assault terminators because they were next to a half dead tac squad. (I realize that it would be foolish to a put yourself in counter-assault range of the termies tactically speaking I'm just trying to illustrate a situation that may occur). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2332512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 thats how i see it to sparhawk, but maybe he is reading the ulre differently or is seeing something under rage that we are not Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2332670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 yeah but nothing forces you to assault multiple targets. the thing about engaging as many enemies means you can't assault and have only 1 model in combat to minimise potential casualties, you have to get as many into base contact as possible. Actually, if there are multiple units in such a position that you can Assault them while remaining in coherency, then yes you DO have to engage multiple units if you want to Assault at all. i would be really interested in seeing where this is in the rage rules. or is it part of the assault rules, because i really don't think that you are forced to assault multiple units. Nothing to do with Rage at all. Part of the Assault Rules. My understanding of the Assault rule is that it was meant to ensure that the maximum number of models for both the attacker and defender are engaged at any one time, not that I would have to assault your assault terminators because they were next to a half dead tac squad. (I realize that it would be foolish to a put yourself in counter-assault range of the termies tactically speaking I'm just trying to illustrate a situation that may occur). The normal Assault rules force you to maximise the number of enemy models you engage when you Assault. Assaulting Models must attempt to engage as many opposing models as possible with as many of their models as possible - no holding back! It would be ridiculous if you could ignore a unit that was interspersed with another unit under assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2332690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 nothing in that statement forces you to charge multiple units as far as i read it. all it says it that you have to move all your models as close to the charge unit as possible, and then they must do likewise in the 'defenders react' pahse. its to ensure you don't engage a guard squad with a single terminator and string the rest out behind to block line of sigt to your advancing forces. or at least thats how i see it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2332700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 nothing in that statement forces you to charge multiple units as far as i read it. all it says it that you have to move all your models as close to the charge unit as possible, and then they must do likewise in the 'defenders react' pahse. its to ensure you don't engage a guard squad with a single terminator and string the rest out behind to block line of sigt to your advancing forces. or at least thats how i see it From Assaulting Multiple Enemy Units, pg. 34: "As usual the closest attacking model must be moved to contact the closest model in the enemy unit against which the assault was declared. Then remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models." (emphasis mine) Clearly the language used indicates that assaulting multiple units is an option, and is not required. Exactly as stinkenheim and others have said, the "engaging as many opposing models as possible" deals with a standard assault against a single enemy unit. Bringing this back to one of the original issues, in the Rage USR there is no restriction on who you Assault, only that you must Move toward, Consolidate toward, or Run toward (if you choose to Run) the nearest visible enemy unit. You are free to Assault whichever unit you want to, so long as you meet other standard restricitions (e.g. you can't assault one unit if you fired at another, etc.) Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194662-rage-and-transport/#findComment-2333581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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