Bonsai Monkey Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Hello, I was just wondering if any of you long term players think its better to have a whirlwind and autocannon dread OR a 210pt tact squad? Which would do better as be more useful? I am starting a 1000 army which includes 2 tact squads, 1 dev squad and a lib. The 3rd tact would give me more bodies and bolters and 1 heavy (prob a las cannon as the squad would be defense rather than offense and help cover the other tacts) , but I would lose barrage and hvy cover fire? Would numbers be better than heavy fire? I still get 1 hvy, which if I use it as above would be able to fire each turn and help cover the devs at the back. Any ideas would be welcome, If the whirlwind is better it would mean a trip to the shops and that always ends up more expensive than planned? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Do your current tactical squads have rhinos? If they do, I'd go with the vehicles, since without a bit of target saturation the rhinos will be destroyed before they get to do anything. If they aren't in rhinos I'd go for a third tac squad, for pretty much the opposite reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 cheers for coming back. The tacts will be in rhino's, so I wil have to go shopping. Cheers again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I agree. Also you should look into razorbacks and combat squading. That way you still get the shots with the heavy weapons while still moving towards objectives. Just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry man Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 i would agree about getting the tanks, but would reccommend a predator over a whirlwind (same points). i would disagree about rzbs for 10man sqds as it means that half the squad is then walking. in 5th ed, walking usually = dead, quickly. combat squadding also often =dead quickly - combine the 2 and you got dead real quickly AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possessed Marine Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 only reason to get a RB is if you do 5 or 6 man Sternguard squad, so I say can the RB for now but possibly get 3rd tac squad if only to objective sit around your own deployment zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 Cheers for everyones advice, the thoughts are greatly appreciated. I can think of a few situations where combat squading is needed but I am not to keen on reducing the numbers of the squads. I would think about razorbacks for the devs but there would be 8 in the squad, so I couldnt use it as protection or transport just cover and guns? May be send it off on its own to see how much damage it could do before being blown up? I guess not alot. I was wondering though, if the thought behind having the tanks is to scare people into target order and save my tacs for a turn or 2 should I get 2 preds? I know as im talking my wallet is starting to shout at me, but if by running 1 pred its going to be shot to bits first (maybe surviving 1 turn) a second one might live long enough to shoot its points worth? Maybe? I am thinking preds now, as if the tanks would be targeted first then the rhinos would be ahead of and easier targets for shooting than the whirlwinds hiding at the back? Or a pred and a whirlwind and IF I can save 5 points a razorback for the devs?? SLAM, STOMP, STOMP, STOMP, Sorry that was my wallet finally given up and ran off with my cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelope King Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Yeah, your wallet will be smarting, but from a purely tactical point of view, in 40k, Lanchester's Square Law is important. 2 tanks are actually 4 tanks, and 3 tanks are actually 9 tanks. Each tank not only provides its own firepower, but also protects other tanks from having fire concentrated on them via target saturation (the defensive benefit to going mech becomes obvious in this case: oversaturate your opponent's limited anti-tank options with armor and negate the effectiveness of his anti-infantry options). And Redundancy is King. When you present two-ofs or three-ofs, your force is better equiped to survive the attrition of battle. The loss of one predator when you only have one on the table to begin with is a devastating blow to your firebase; the loss of one predator when you have three on the table is a footnote, as you still have redundant units there to fill the role of the lost model. Different-but-similar units (such as taking 1 Predator, 1 Whirlwind, and 1 Vindicator) upset this by providing your opponent definite target priority (as a Marine, I'll probably be more afraid of the Vindicator than the Whirlwind, for instance, so I'll target that for destruction before I bother with the Whirlwind, and I've thus altered your battle plan more significantly than if I were just targetting one of your three Vindicators). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 Cheers, this is all helpful. If I go with the double pred, that means the army looks like a lib, 2 tac with rhinos, devs and the 2 preds. With whats remaining should I max the devs to maybe combat squad them do the razorback thing for the devs an attack bike? I know the attack bike doesnt fit in as such but I could get the without mucking around with the tacs layout? I would have to lose a melta gun in one of the tac squads to get the razorback, but I still am not sure whether or not this would be wasted on suicide drive by type thing. And thinking about it even if I had a full dev squad, I still dont like the idea of combat squading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Gaius Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I run 3 preds, 1 LR, 4 rhinos so how many tanks does that multiply to B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I run 3 preds, 1 LR, 4 rhinos Ummm how? You can only take 3 heavy support choices. You can't field 3 preds and a land-raider unless its apocalypse. Believe me i would love to take my devastator squad, predator, vindicator and LRC to a battle but can't. I'm just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelope King Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Ummm how? You can only take 3 heavy support choices. You can't field 3 preds and a land-raider unless its apocalypse. Believe me i would love to take my devastator squad, predator, vindicator and LRC to a battle but can't. I'm just saying. A single terminator squad can take a LR as a Dedicated Transport, you realize. Note that technically, you can run a 5-Land Raider Army if you really, really gimp yourself elsewhere. 3x Heavy Support Land Raiders, 1x Terminator Squad Dedicated Transport Land Raider, and 1x Terminator Assault Squad Land Raider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Gaius Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Ummm how? You can only take 3 heavy support choices. You can't field 3 preds and a land-raider unless its apocalypse. Believe me i would love to take my devastator squad, predator, vindicator and LRC to a battle but can't. I'm just saying. Did you forget termie squad takes them as dedicated transport? edit jack you beat me to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 But even though its a transport for the termies I thought it counts as a heavy support choice as well. Ill have to ask my group and see there opinions on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 But even though its a transport for the termies I thought it counts as a heavy support choice as well. Ill have to ask my group and see there opinions on it. It says in the army list that you can take it as a dedicated transport. Dedicated transports do not take up slots on the FOC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry man Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 But even though its a transport for the termies I thought it counts as a heavy support choice as well. Ill have to ask my group and see there opinions on it. a LR may be taken for a termie squad in the same way as a rhino may be taken for a tactical squad AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Sweet then im going to have to change things a bit. HAHAHAHA B) (evil laugh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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