Brother-Chaplain Gaius Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Which do you prefer for an all comers list, and which has brought you the most success. Which do YOU use and why. I like the redeemer its 10 pts cheaper so you can take that multi melta for free. and flamestorm cannons are killer! although sometimes annoying to position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelope King Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Crusader. You can easy carry an HQ or two along with your Assault Terminators inside. Hurricane Bolters are defensive weapons, so with Power of the Machine Spirit, you can roll 6", crack open a transport with the Multimelta, and then fire a pretty whithering amount of anti-infantry weaponry, almost always getting shots off with both the assault cannon and the hurricane bolters on the passengers who were inside. I've got no problems cutting it down to a Redeemer if I need to in order to keep my costs down, but the Crusader is just a consistent performer for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Gaius Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 quick question if the crusader moves can the bolters fire 24" or is it treated like infantry and can only rapid fire up to 12"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Scorpion Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Hi, I think that all Land Raiders have their merits in an all comers list. They all perform slightly different roles though so I'd go with the one that gives your army something it's lacking. Need anti-tank, get the Godhammer, need anti horde, get the Crusader, need anti-MEQ, get the Redeemer. Obviously it's a little more complecated than that so I've included a link to a similar thread that may help explain the differences and benefits of each of the three varients. Land Raider Comparisons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 I'd say the bolters are a defensive weapon so they can fire at 24" or 12" ether way its great. If I'm wrong then all the people i play and those who tough me are wrong (there the same people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
templargdt Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 After using both for a bit I think I prefer the Redeemer. My typical opponents are Marines and IG, and the flamestorms never fail to perform excellently for me. You would think that the Crusader would do better agains IG, but the IG dudes are usually in cover. One of my usual opponents will often have them go to ground if they get shot at and then use the 'get back in the fight' order next turn, so he usually has a 3+ cover save. Flamestorms solve that problem. Also, they prevent FNP in a command squad, which is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 quick question if the crusader moves can the bolters fire 24" or is it treated like infantry and can only rapid fire up to 12"? I always thought you could move and fire 24'' as the weapon is on a vehicle: like they can move and fire heavy weapons. They can rapid fire when in 12'' range. I think the Crusader is awesome; the sheer amount of bolter shots, plus being defensive. I think it's more about what you'll be facing rather than one being better per se. Which is not helpful to you for an all-comers list :cuss Honestly, I don't think you'll go far wrong with either. Possibly the Redeemer can hurt more and you'll always hit, and ignore cover... but... with the Crusader you can always fire, a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Godhammer > all. Though, if you absolutely don't wanna use godhammer and want to use either a redeemer or a crusader, then I'd have to say crusader. If you want to use a redeemer, you need some really good target saturation to go with it. A pair of vindicators are a great thing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Godhammer > all. Really? Even against hordes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I've yet to field a Land Raider, but from an uneducated eye, the diffculty in the Redeemer is getting both templates on target. The target unit has to be REALLY big, and REALY close for both flame templates to be able to touch them. You're more likely to just roll up broadside on the target and fire the one sponson (probably via PotMS, yes?). Luckily, the Raider is AV14 all 'round, so you don't have to worry about your facings and such, unless youplan to assault out of it after firing the flamers, though side doors help mitigate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Gaius Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 yeah I've never been able to hit with both templates in a single move. im usually firing the multi melta and the assault cannon the majority of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thantoes Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 To be honest, in an all comers list I would pick the GodHammer pattern. Ticks one of your AT boxes, is devastating to transports, can deliver your assault troops and can lay down some withering fire with the heavy bolter. I have both a Redeemer and godhammer and the godhammer gets picked more often than the redeemer for just that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I run 2 crusaders in DH 1500 point list, they pwn. More room for your GKT/Hammernators in there as well. Redeemer needs 2 units with a landraider width hole between them and PotMS to make full use of its sponsons. Has less chance of making an impact due to range so why not have a crusader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Gaius Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 im almost convinced to take a crusader like this > < close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 im almost convinced to take a crusader like this > < close If you take a Crusader, you will become more attractive to the opposite sex. Convinced? :D After reading some of the latest posts, they make a very good point about it being very difficult to make use of both flamestorms on the redeemer. At least with the crusader, you will be much more likely to actually have targets for both guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Gaius Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 im almost convinced to take a crusader like this > < close If you take a Crusader, you will become more attractive to the opposite sex. Convinced? :D After reading some of the latest posts, they make a very good point about it being very difficult to make use of both flamestorms on the redeemer. At least with the crusader, you will be much more likely to actually have targets for both guns. oh so i'm ugly now?! yeah I never get to use both templates and when I do get to actually flamestorm something it dies before I can assault it so its been bothering me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glayvin34 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I only get that flamestorm template on an opposing squad in 20% of my games, so it often goes to waste. However, I've completely scoured an objective clean several times when I do hit a squad. Same thing with the Redeemer, sometimes I get to lay down serious dakka with it, sometimes my opponents makes all his saves. Godhammer with something assaulty in it has always delivered for me (when it's not a fire magnet that gets blown to bits on turn 1- but that's an issue with all LR patterns), that way I can actually feel like it's doing something even if it kills only 2 marines per turn with lascannons, and it can drive over and unload CC death. The Crusader and Redeemer have a lot of potential, but it takes some luck and skill to get them in range, while the GH will definitely hit, but might not have as great an effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkios Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Two words: Tank Shock Have a Redeemer tank shock a unit. If they break and run away, good riddance. If they pass their check*, then the entire unit needs to pile up on one side of the Redeemer or the other. Then use POTMS to go "lololololololol" with a flamestorm cannon on which ever side they bunched up on! (*be wary of meltas, gun and bomb varieties, as melta 'Death of Glory' can be bad news for AV 14) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekLee688 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hard to say. I haven't tried to use Redeemer so I'm biased against it. However, each codex can use it differently. You can fill a SW Crusader with 15 Blood claws and a Wolf priest OR fill it with terminators. I still like the idea of using allied sisters and putting out 30 WS:4 devine guided bolter shots on some poor squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I've dump 16 sisters out a SM Crusader in a game, and just loved the look on my opponents face when tey divine guidanced his assualt squad away in one turn of shooting. However, that was the one and only occasion that trick worked. I've experiment with 2-3 LR's in an army, using every pattern combo I could (all 3 of my LR's are magnetized and have all 3 patterns available for swap-out), and what I've found is that Godhammers still remain the most flexible pattern to use when you do not know what army you will be facing. There is a huge arguement in favor of twin Crusaders if you have the mobile-melta in numbers great enough to take out anything the Crusaders can't. There is also a huge arguement against mixed LR's in the same force. As to Redeemers, I'm finding them to be a bit underwhelming, and only use them when I know what type of army/opponent I'm going up against before hand. Yet, if the payload is small, and the opponent is clumpt, the shear terror a set of Redeemers can cause is more than enough to keep them as a valid option. Just not a good "all-comers" option. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Godhammer > all. Really? Even against hordes? Yes. Most viable horde armies out there has something the godhammer can do great against. Orks have their trukks (extremely easily killed by lascannons) and battlewagons (again, there's a 33% chance to penetrate/glance a battlewagon with every hit, + it being opentopped means lascannons are pretty good against them). The fact nobz are insta-killed by lascannons is also a great advantage. Tyranids have monstrous creatures, warriors, zoanthropes, and biowores, all of which are extremely succeptible to lascannons. On the other hand, the redeemer is fancy and can kill a lot, but a single immobilized result early in the game, and it's rendered utterly useless. Crusader is a bit better but do vanilla marines really need more anti-infantry? We got tons as it is, while on the other hand reliable long-range shooting is hard to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurvack Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 All are good choices, depends on play list. I play with 1 LRC and 1 LRR. To shoot with Lasscannons, I prefer 2 predators with LC sponsons, and LC in tacticals inside of a Rhino. Give two jobs to the LR in the same turn isn't good for me. Best move 12'' all LRs forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Godhammer > all. Really? Even against hordes? Yes. Most viable horde armies out there has something the godhammer can do great against. Orks have their trukks (extremely easily killed by lascannons) and battlewagons (again, there's a 33% chance to penetrate/glance a battlewagon with every hit, + it being opentopped means lascannons are pretty good against them). The fact nobz are insta-killed by lascannons is also a great advantage. Tyranids have monstrous creatures, warriors, zoanthropes, and biowores, all of which are extremely succeptible to lascannons. On the other hand, the redeemer is fancy and can kill a lot, but a single immobilized result early in the game, and it's rendered utterly useless. Crusader is a bit better but do vanilla marines really need more anti-infantry? We got tons as it is, while on the other hand reliable long-range shooting is hard to get. On the other hand, there are cheaper ways to get the same (or better) shooting than a vanilla land raider, and if you're also using it as a transport then long range quickly turns into medium or short range, where the variants suddenly become far more useful. Not that I'm saying the Godhammer is bad or anything, but in a list built to rush, the other LRs can do extremely well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 On the other hand, there are cheaper ways to get the same (or better) shooting than a vanilla land raider, and if you're also using it as a transport then long range quickly turns into medium or short range, where the variants suddenly become far more useful. Not that I'm saying the Godhammer is bad or anything, but in a list built to rush, the other LRs can do extremely well. Well, if you want to RUSH then yes, I suppose so. But then again, I don't think many competitive vanila lists are supposed to RUSH all the time, but rather be flexible and adaptable to any situation. Godhammer fills that role extremely well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Gaius Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 On the other hand, there are cheaper ways to get the same (or better) shooting than a vanilla land raider, and if you're also using it as a transport then long range quickly turns into medium or short range, where the variants suddenly become far more useful. Not that I'm saying the Godhammer is bad or anything, but in a list built to rush, the other LRs can do extremely well. I don't think many competitive vanila lists are supposed to RUSH all the time, but rather be flexible and adaptable to any situation. Godhammer fills that role extremely well. No, they're not.godhammer is the all around most reliable choice but this is crusader vs redeemer! :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.