A couple of questions

[Ntin]

“No Retreat!” page 44

“If none of the enemies involved in close combat against a fearless unit can actuality hurt it, then the unit does not suffer any wounds if its side is defeated in close combat, and simply continues to fight.”

 

1. A group of 30 Tyranid hormagaunts charge a group 5 Eldar Wraithguard and an Eldar Wraithlord. The hormagaunts cannot harm the Wraithlord but they can harm the Wraithguard. The Eldar side loses close combat by 3. Do the Wraithguard suffer 3 wounds because the hormagaunts can harm them?

 

2. Now instead of 30 Tyranid hormagaunts change it to 20 Chaos Daemon daemonettes. A rending attack can harm the Wraithlord but not every time. Would the Wraithlord suffer 3 wounds?

 

3. Now instead of Chaos Daemonettes, it is a Space Marine Assault Squad with a Powerfist Sergeant. All the attacks go against the Wraithguard. Lets say all the Wraithguard were wiped out and the Eldar side caused no wounds. Now the Sergeant is capable of harming the Wraithlord but he did not attack the Wraithlord. Would the Wraithlord suffer 5 wounds?

 

4. Finally a close combat involving a Chaos Dreadnought and 8 Khorne Berserkers versus 30 Ork Boyz. The Orks win close combat by 5 but they cannot harm the Chaos Dreadnought. A Walker is not fearless it simply does not follow the “No Retreat!” rule.

 

 

In the new Battle Missions supplement the “Stubborn” USR is given out in a number of the missions. If a unit is already fearless do they gain any additional benefits from being “Stubborn” as well?

 

“Fearless” page 75

“Fearless troops automatically pass all Morale and Pinning tests they are required to take, and will never fall back.”

 

“Stubborn” page 76

“When taking a Morale tests, stubborn units always ignore any negative Leadership modifiers.”

 

For the purposes of “No Retreat!” does a fearless-stubborn unit ignore the wounds they lost by?

[stinkenheim]

'No retreat' does not take into account whether the winning unit can hurt the enemy unit or not, it merely represents the cnahc of them getting overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

 

'No retreat' has no effct on vehicles, so if the walker was all that was left then it takes no further damage.

 

units that are stubbornand joined by someone who grants them farless would become fearless instead. it is extremely rare that a unit would have both 'fearless' and 'stubborn' but fearless would take priority as it means the unit 'automatically passes all morale tests etc' so a fearless unit that was also stubborn would auto pass and therefore not get a chance to test on an unmodified leadership.

 

+edit+ no, the stubborn-fearless unit would not negate the no retreat wounds

[Legatus]

If none of the enemies involved in close combat against a fearless unit can actuality hurt it, then the unit does not suffer any wounds if its side is defeated in close combat, and simply continues to fight.

 

That rule is not really ambiguous, is it?

 

 

1. A group of 30 Tyranid hormagaunts charge a group 5 Eldar Wraithguard and an Eldar Wraithlord. The hormagaunts cannot harm the Wraithlord but they can harm the Wraithguard. The Eldar side loses close combat by 3. Do the Wraithguard suffer 3 wounds because the hormagaunts can harm them?

Because the Wraithlord cannot be hurt by any of the enemies, he will not suffer "No Retreat" wounds. Because the Wraithguard can be hurt, they suffer the wounds as normal.

 

 

2. Now instead of 30 Tyranid hormagaunts change it to 20 Chaos Daemon daemonettes. A rending attack can harm the Wraithlord but not every time. Would the Wraithlord suffer 3 wounds?

Because the Wraithlord can be hurt by some of the enemies, he will suffer the "No Retreat" wounds.

 

 

3. Now instead of Chaos Daemonettes, it is a Space Marine Assault Squad with a Powerfist Sergeant. All the attacks go against the Wraithguard. Lets say all the Wraithguard were wiped out and the Eldar side caused no wounds. Now the Sergeant is capable of harming the Wraithlord but he did not attack the Wraithlord. Would the Wraithlord suffer 5 wounds?

Because the Wraithlord can be hurt by some of the enemies, he will suffer the "No Retreat" wounds.

 

 

4. Finally a close combat involving a Chaos Dreadnought and 8 Khorne Berserkers versus 30 Ork Boyz. The Orks win close combat by 5 but they cannot harm the Chaos Dreadnought. A Walker is not fearless it simply does not follow the “No Retreat!” rule.

According to the Walker rules on page 73, Walkers that are defeated in combat do not take Morale tests and are not affected by the No Retreat! rule.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Legatus is correct on all acounts.

 

 

On a side note, I much prefered the outnumbering rules for no retreat.

[stinkenheim]

ok, thnx for that legatus... no one i play against uses eldar so there are no units that normally worry about 'no retreat' that cannot be hurt by me anyway but cheers for clearing that up... can't believe i missed that :D