The emperor vs. Horus

[The emperors chosen]

So, I was just wondering, how do people think Horus's battle barge lost it's shields? Do people believe that he dropped them, or that it was someone/thing else that caused it. I personally feel that Aximand dropped them, as a.) we haven't heard from him since then and b.) at the end of Galaxy in Flames, Abaddon said something to the effect of "he need's watching".

Well that's my idea, now post yours

[Tutteman]

Mostly I think it was Horus realising that he needed to force an end to the war before the Dark Angels and Space Wolves arrived to break the siege. But i have considered Little Horus, if GW feels like ret conning the final fight (again) then he could be the guy who confronts horus, gets flayed alive and makes the Emperor realise that his son is gone.

[Walter Payton]

The Collected Visions book proves beyond all doubt that it was on the orders of Horus the Warmaster.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i blame the alpha legion.

 

it would suite their style of warfare and leave their loyalty ambigious.

 

and yea, while i love the CV, it is being retconned by most of the newer material, which annoys the crap out of me. not that it means the CV is wrong, just that there are more truths floating about.

 

WLK

[Brother-chaplain Astador]

We have been told in a few scources that it was Horus who did it to force the Emp into a battle to end the war, as the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves would be arriving and he could not withstand them all, it was supposed to be a quick, devastating attack to rip the heart out of the imperium, not a prolonged war against entrentched and resupplied forces.

 

Though no doubt this could be retconned also.

 

Edit - We have a few more luna wolf books to come I reckon, or at least more that feature their characters - I seem to remember Little Horus was particularly devastated by the killing of......*tries to remember* Torgaddon, which he himself carried out

 

It was undoubtably a setup for something to happen later on with him, but what that is..who knows.

[Sons of Horus]

Horus had them dropped.

[Pulse]

Hmm good point with Aximand, that could be interesting if it was retconned but for now it was Horus who ordered the shields dropped. ;)

[The emperors chosen]

Yah I figured that Horus dropped them, but I was just curious, and Tutteman, wasn't it a custode/terminator/guardsman that got flayed?

[Murphestus]

It was a blood angel terminator/tac marine the first time, if I remember right. The fight has been 'retold' a few times and I get them a little mixed up.

[dRewsus]

In the 2nd edition fluff Horus dropped the shields so he could watch the Emperor die, but the Emperor sensed the shields dropping and seized the opportunity to get on the ship and kill Horus.

[Ufthak]

According to current fluff, Horus dropped the shields on purpose to force an end, as stated above. That would also explain how the assaulting force was scattered about the ship - Horus saw to that so he wouldn't have to face the Emperor, Sanguinius and Rogal Dorn all together.

 

Concerning the individual who gets killed:

In the first version of the story, I vaguely remember it to be a simple Guardsman of the Imperial Army; in the next version, it was an Imperial Fist Terminator, and in the current version (Collected Visions) it's a Custodian Guard.

I've never heard the version of the Blood Angels terminator...in fact, I've never heard of Blood Angels in the assaulting force at all; though, I vaguely remember a few older pics of the endfight with dead World Eaters and Blood Angels lying around...

[jb85]

According to current fluff, Horus dropped the shields on purpose to force an end, as stated above. That would also explain how the assaulting force was scattered about the ship - Horus saw to that so he wouldn't have to face the Emperor, Sanguinius and Rogal Dorn all together.

 

Concerning the individual who gets killed:

In the first version of the story, I vaguely remember it to be a simple Guardsman of the Imperial Army; in the next version, it was an Imperial Fist Terminator, and in the current version (Collected Visions) it's a Custodian Guard.

I've never heard the version of the Blood Angels terminator...in fact, I've never heard of Blood Angels in the assaulting force at all; though, I vaguely remember a few older pics of the endfight with dead World Eaters and Blood Angels lying around...

 

There were detachments of Blood Angels and Imperial Fists alongside Sanguinius and Dorn, although Sanguinius ended up isolated during the teleport.

[Ignatius]

The Guardsman in the original version was called Ollanius Pius, he took on Horus knowing he would die but gave his master the time to deliver Horus the fatal blow.

 

I really like this version as a simple man saved the Imperium.

 

I

[Simo429]

i like the custodes idea better, it makes more sense

[ArgusPMC]

The Guardsman in the original version was called Ollanius Pius, he took on Horus knowing he would die but gave his master the time to deliver Horus the fatal blow.

 

I really like this version as a simple man saved the Imperium.

 

I

 

I think this sums it the Imperium to follow to be honest, its epic.

[philpill]

Wasn't there an epic thread where this was discussed to death a few weeks ago ?

[Ashe Darke]

The Collected Visions book proves beyond all doubt that it was on the orders of Horus the Warmaster.

Collection Visions in itself is vague. I remember reading one passage where it was like 'maybe it was this, or this, or maybe even this, who knows?', citing about 4 different possibilities so it hardly knows all the answers. It almost reads like someone has pieced together all the pieces of the heresy they can find and have turned into one collection. This, in my mind, explains the overlap of many of the pages and some of the vagueness as sources overlap in their information. While I don't know if this is true, it's how I like to perceive the book. It gives a good idea of the story arc but none of the details (second hand sources) which is kinda supposed to be filled in by the HH books ('first hand' sources). This is how ADB described it anyway.

Wasn't there an epic thread where this was discussed to death a few weeks ago ?

There was on in the Chaos section a while ago but that was more than a few weeks.

[Walter Payton]

The Collected Visions book proves beyond all doubt that it was on the orders of Horus the Warmaster.

Collection Visions in itself is vague. I remember reading one passage where it was like 'maybe it was this, or this, or maybe even this, who knows?', citing about 4 different possibilities so it hardly knows all the answers. It almost reads like someone has pieced together all the pieces of the heresy they can find and have turned into one collection. This, in my mind, explains the overlap of many of the pages and some of the vagueness as sources overlap in their information. While I don't know if this is true, it's how I like to perceive the book. It gives a good idea of the story arc but none of the details (second hand sources) which is kinda supposed to be filled in by the HH books ('first hand' sources). This is how ADB described it anyway.

 

The passage I am referring to is not told as a fictional history, but as a proper short-story, it allows no ambiguity/