Orbital/Ordnance Strike

[Mortis909]

i have two questions

 

1. If i was to drop an orbital bombardment, form a Chapter Master, on a unit behind a wall would they get a cover save?

 

2. In an enclosed bunker, i.e. nuclear style bunker, would my maines get cover saves against an ordnance strike from a Imperial Guard Master of Ordnance?

[Legatus]

1. The Chapter Master's orbital bombardment is a barrage shot, so cover is determined from the center of the barrage. (See Rulebook, page 32)

 

2. An enclosed Bunker would count as a Building with AV 14, not as a kind of cover, so the unit inside the bunker would not be hit by the ordnance strike. (See Rulebook, page 79) The ordnance would only hit the bunker, but could indirectly harm the unit inside if the bunker is destroyed. It works just like when a unit is inside a transport and the vehicle is attacked.

[ShinyRhino]

2. An enclosed Bunker would count as a Building with AV 14, not as a kind of cover, so the unit inside the bunker would not be hit by the ordnance strike. (See Rulebook, page 79) The ordnance would only hit the bunker, but could indirectly harm the unit inside if the bunker is destroyed. It works just like when a unit is inside a transport and the vehicle is attacked.

 

This one depends on if you're using the Buildings rules. Many places don't like to use embarkable building rules because it tends to become a pain in the backside if every non-vehicle unit jumps inside a building. If you aren't using the Buildings rules, I'd grant the unit inside said bunker a 3+ cover save for being inside a fortification.

[Frosty the Pyro]

2. An enclosed Bunker would count as a Building with AV 14, not as a kind of cover, so the unit inside the bunker would not be hit by the ordnance strike. (See Rulebook, page 79) The ordnance would only hit the bunker, but could indirectly harm the unit inside if the bunker is destroyed. It works just like when a unit is inside a transport and the vehicle is attacked.

 

This one depends on if you're using the Buildings rules. Many places don't like to use embarkable building rules because it tends to become a pain in the backside if every non-vehicle unit jumps inside a building. If you aren't using the Buildings rules, I'd grant the unit inside said bunker a 3+ cover save for being inside a fortification.

if its not a building, then by the rules it will be a a ruin, which is area terain grantg a 4+, the same as any ruin.

[angry man]

i thought that area terrain was only appropriate in very specific circumstances due to the "you can shoot what you can see" ruling of 5th ed (may be wrong though)

 

assuming i am right, i would play it that if you are

( A ) in a builing/ruin with a number of floors, the bombardment, being barrage may only hit the top floor so any models not on the top floor are completely safe.

( B ) if the ruin/building has only the one level, the only thing that would provide a cover save is an actual piece of terrain/scenery within the said ruin/building that is structuraly between the center of the template and the model(s) it hits

 

AM

 

EDIT: the B in brackets kept making the glasses face emoticon

[Frosty the Pyro]

i thought that area terrain was only appropriate in very specific circumstances due to the "you can shoot what you can see" ruling of 5th ed (may be wrong though)

 

assuming i am right, i would play it that if you are

( A ) in a builing/ruin with a number of floors, the bombardment, being barrage may only hit the top floor so any models not on the top floor are completely safe.

( B ) if the ruin/building has only the one level, the only thing that would provide a cover save is an actual piece of terrain/scenery within the said ruin/building that is structuraly between the center of the template and the model(s) it hits

 

AM

 

EDIT: the B in brackets kept making the glasses face emoticon

 

 

This is not correct.

 

Area terain is still used, any model in area terrain (except for vehicles and monsters) automaticly get a coversave regardles of LOS.

All ruins are area terrain, no mater how clear your shot is, people in ruins have a 4+ cover save.

A bunker would be a building. As stated building operate like imobile vehicles, with the exception that if a flamer hits the fireing point then it causes 1d6 hits to the embarked unit.

Barrage weapons will always hit the highest floor that the hole is under.

[angry man]

i thought that area terrain was only appropriate in very specific circumstances due to the "you can shoot what you can see" ruling of 5th ed (may be wrong though)

 

assuming i am right, i would play it that if you are

( A ) in a builing/ruin with a number of floors, the bombardment, being barrage may only hit the top floor so any models not on the top floor are completely safe.

( B ) if the ruin/building has only the one level, the only thing that would provide a cover save is an actual piece of terrain/scenery within the said ruin/building that is structuraly between the center of the template and the model(s) it hits

 

AM

 

EDIT: the B in brackets kept making the glasses face emoticon

 

 

This is not correct.

 

Area terain is still used, any model in area terrain (except for vehicles and monsters) automaticly get a coversave regardles of LOS.

All ruins are area terrain, no mater how clear your shot is, people in ruins have a 4+ cover save.

A bunker would be a building. As stated building operate like imobile vehicles, with the exception that if a flamer hits the fireing point then it causes 1d6 hits to the embarked unit.

Barrage weapons will always hit the highest floor that the hole is under.

 

a little bit blunt - i only said that i thought that was how its played - if youre going to state something as fact then a quote/page reference wouldnt go amiss

 

AM

[Isiah]

assuming i am right, i would play it that if you are

( A ) in a builing/ruin with a number of floors, the bombardment, being barrage may only hit the top floor so any models not on the top floor are completely safe.

Correct [as per BRB p85].

 

 

( B ) if the ruin/building has only the one level, the only thing that would provide a cover save is an actual piece of terrain/scenery within the said ruin/building that is structuraly between the center of the template and the model(s) it hits

All ruins are classified as area terrain and thus confer a 4+ cover save [as per BRB p82]. So models in a ruin would get a cover save regardless of where the physical ruin was in relation to the blast markers centre hole.

 

Cheers

I

[stinkenheim]

@ Isiah if the orbital strike counts as barrage then surely cover is worked out from the central hole and if that sits within the terrain then no save is granted or am i confuddled?

[Seahawk]

You are confuddled.

 

"Target models whose bases are at least partially inside area terrain are in cover, regardless of the direction the shot is coming from." pg 22

 

Barrages come from above. Up is a direction, thus you get a cover save. If one argues that up doesn't exist in 40k, only the hole of the template, well that's a direction too. As the rule says "regardless of the direction," one in area terrain (ruins) always get a cover save from any direction, whether it's from up, down, sides, or insides.

[stinkenheim]

i was, Barrage weapons p 32

'To determine if a unit is allowed a cover save, always assume the shot is coming from the centre of the marker, instead of from the firing model.' This was the bit i was thinking of, forgot the next line which is, 'Remember that models in area terrain get their cover saves regardless of the direction the shot is coming from.'

thats what happens when you post without your rulebook....

[angry man]

does it say in the BRB what terrain is to be counted as area terrain or is that a decision to be made between 2 players?

 

AM

[JamesI]

does it say in the BRB what terrain is to be counted as area terrain or is that a decision to be made between 2 players?

 

AM

terrain issues should be handled by the players before the game. That way everyone agrees what things are before it becomes meaningful in game.

[Frosty the Pyro]

does it say in the BRB what terrain is to be counted as area terrain or is that a decision to be made between 2 players?

 

AM

terrain issues should be handled by the players before the game. That way everyone agrees what things are before it becomes meaningful in game.

indeed, generaly area terrain will either have a base, or some form of outline, if not it needs to be defined in the pregame or the assumtion will likely be not area terrain. Pg 13 discuses area terain. There is a chart on pg 21 discusing what type of terain provides what cover save.

 

a little bit blunt - i only said that i thought that was how its played - if youre going to state something as fact then a quote/page reference wouldnt go amiss

Blunt is another way to say unrepentently honest, and I tend to be.

Area terrain pg 13

Ruins as area terain pg 83 "ruins the basics"

Buildings (embarkable) pg79-81

Barrage and Ruins Pg 85 "barrage weapons"

[chapter master 454]

Buildings are a little broken because you effectively gain a place to fire from with impunity (I had my plasma cannon servs with conversion beamer MotF in one, they were untouchable because all anti-tank weapons were occupied with dealing with my tanks!). however they are great fun if you just like playing siege warfare.

 

as a note, the Imperial guard master guard of pie plates always scatters, so how it hits anything is beyond me (it always scatters and when it does truely scatter it goes off by 3D6 inchs...completely and utterly useless imo)

[Frosty the Pyro]

Buildings are a little broken because you effectively gain a place to fire from with impunity (I had my plasma cannon servs with conversion beamer MotF in one, they were untouchable because all anti-tank weapons were occupied with dealing with my tanks!). however they are great fun if you just like playing siege warfare.

No more broken than a transport with fireing points. Less so if you consider the aditional weekness to template weapons.