Kill Team Ideas

[Sparhawk]

So I was thinking of playing my first Kill team game soon and was wondering if anyone has played that scenario and had any do's or do not do's for list building.

 

My initial thought for an extremely simple list was a 10 man tac squad with plasma gun and ML.

 

Give the plasma guy FNP, the ML relentless and buy the Sgt a PW with either fleet or furious charge and maybe some melta bombs. My big concern is that the list lacks any serious high AV punch so we could swap the ML for a MM and drop the Melta bombs.

 

Thoughts?

[Hellios]

So I was thinking of playing my first Kill team game soon and was wondering if anyone has played that scenario and had any do's or do not do's for list building.

 

My initial thought for an extremely simple list was a 10 man tac squad with plasma gun and ML.

 

Give the plasma guy FNP, the ML relentless and buy the Sgt a PW with either fleet or furious charge and maybe some melta bombs. My big concern is that the list lacks any serious high AV punch so we could swap the ML for a MM and drop the Melta bombs.

 

Thoughts?

 

Fragile and slow, I played a tournament (came 4th) 0 for a draw, 10 for a making them run like girls and 15 for a table... A daemons list came first... might have got a bit lucky but I won't say he played badly with what he had. List that did well in general had vehicles and troops... So imperial guard vets with chimeras... played 3 of them (3 draws, just couldn't kill them with like 10 s8 shots each... including XD some on the side armour.), my list was Dark Eldar Warrior in a Raider... (I played a lurk game of cat and mouse picking off individuals and hiding behind terrain).

 

I played a list like yours except a HB rather than a ML (didn't matter he died before he could do anything), got him down to 2 marines (normal bolter marines) and only lost 1 warrior and one of those was in combat... then time was called so I got a draw (0pts :'(). I found it to be easy to out-manoeuvre once I took out the HB marine and PG marine which I did first turn...

 

Consider a Land-speeder, dreadnought, razorback or Rhino + troops maybe?... and you can give the vehicle tank hunter if you like XD Razorback with lascannons/assault cannon or whatever and tank hunter? I realise this might mean you only have 5 scouts, tacts or sternguard depending on what you take but it might be worth it.

 

Also the "Doom of" might be fun with eternal warrior XD.

 

Take armour that can ignore S4 or ideally S5 (if it can ignore more even better), if your troops can hide it it even better... then if you can pick-off units that can damage your transport you are probably faster than them now and able to pick them off at your leisure.

 

Rhino + Sternguard +Lascannon (relentless) + power weapon (Furious charge) + flamer (stealth or move through cover?) for an example of something I think you could get into 200pts

[Sparhawk]

Yeah my second thought right after posting this was to try and use sternguard for some versatility as far as the ammo goes.

[Vanor]

I'm looking to start playing kill teams myself. Here's two lists I'm thinking of so far.

 

5 Marines with bolters.

1 Sgt with bolter and melta bomb

1 Rhino

 

3 scouts with sniper rifles and Cammo cloaks.

 

This list leaves me about 6 points short of 200. The other list is the same only with a razorback w/TLHB on it instead of the Rhino.

 

The scouts will be deployed on 3 edges of the table, with the smaller board, at least one of them if not all three of them can reach pretty much any spot on the board. Stick them on the 2nd level or higher of a building, or some other good cover and they'll be very hard to get rid of. With the cloaks, they're looking at 3+ or even 2+ cover saves. The whole time they can pick their targets and take out the biggest threats first. With the 'Every man for themselves' I get to pick what dies. This lets them be used like real snipers would.

 

The marines go in the transport, rush to the middle and then get broken up into 2 man teams, with one team maybe left inside the rhino to fire out of it. The sgt gets a meltabomb which should be able to kill anything if he can assault it (str 8 +2d6 vs rear armor).

 

With only 200 points much in the way of AT weapons is going to be hard to come by. IMO power fists are a bad choice for a kill team game. You're looking at 40 odd points between the PF and the model itself... That's nearly 25% of your total units in one guy... One guy who doesn't have any 'ablative shielding'.

 

The advantage of the Rhino is with 2 fire points, you can get either 4 str4, ap5 shots at 13" + or 6 str4, ap5 shoots at 12" or less. Vs the 3 str5 ap4 36" shots you get from the TL heavy bolter.

[Vanor]

Yeah my second thought right after posting this was to try and use sternguard for some versatility as far as the ammo goes.

That might end up being a good deal more points for few more options. The sternguard are 35 more points, then a combat squad. I'm not sure if the different forms of ammo are worth it. But then again the Ld 9 would be nice when/if you hit 50% troops left.

[Sparhawk]

I'm looking to start playing kill teams myself. Here's two lists I'm thinking of so far.

 

5 Marines with bolters.

1 Sgt with bolter and melta bomb

1 Rhino

 

3 scouts with sniper rifles and Cammo cloaks.

 

I'm 90% sure (I'm at work and don't have my book) that you need to purchase units as a whole so that would mean a minimum of 5 scouts which would put you right at 200 pts if you drop the camo cloaks.

 

I've thought about bikes, from a purely cool factor, because of the increased maneuverability and the free relentless so I could put FNP Furious Charge and maybe a Preferred Enemy out there.

[angry man]

Yeah my second thought right after posting this was to try and use sternguard for some versatility as far as the ammo goes.

That might end up being a good deal more points for few more options. The sternguard are 35 more points, then a combat squad. I'm not sure if the different forms of ammo are worth it. But then again the Ld 9 would be nice when/if you hit 50% troops left.

plus, they have access to cheap heavy weapons. thats always nice. relentless on one, slow+purposeful on the other. goes down a treat

 

AM

[Vanor]

I'm 90% sure (I'm at work and don't have my book) that you need to purchase units as a whole so that would mean a minimum of 5 scouts which would put you right at 200 pts if you drop the camo cloaks.

 

I thought you could buy things per model... I don't actually have the rules, just paged though them at the LGS and went off what I read there and on some forms. I'll have to check that out as soon as I can.

 

Looking at it, if I have to buy a whole squad of scouts that might cause some issues...

 

6 Marines, 5 scouts, a Rhino and a Meltabomb puts me a good bit over 200 points.

[Hellios]

I'm 90% sure (I'm at work and don't have my book) that you need to purchase units as a whole so that would mean a minimum of 5 scouts which would put you right at 200 pts if you drop the camo cloaks.

 

I thought you could buy things per model... I don't actually have the rules, just paged though them at the LGS and went off what I read there and on some forms. I'll have to check that out as soon as I can.

 

No you have 200pts and a modified FOC of 0-1 E, 0-2 T & 0-1 FA. All models act independently in game however.

[Vanor]

No you have 200pts and a modified FOC

 

Well... That shoots my whole idea down pretty well. :)

 

A combat squad, scout squad of 5 and a rhino is 200 points. That means no no real AT options which I don't care for at all...

 

Back to the drawing board. But thanks for clearing up the rules for me. :D

[Brother Xeones]

Space Wolves have some pretty nice builds.

 

I ran one the other night using that codex which I felt was quite powerful.

6 Gray Hunters 1 powerweapon, one Melta Gun

1 Stock Razorback

1 Lone Wolf in DTA

 

I didn't play that game using USRs but if I had, I'd probably have given the powerweapon GH Fleet and the Lone Wolf Model Furious Charge. The melta guy probably would have gotten something like Tank Hunter or Stealth.

Granted, against IG armor and Vet spam, you'd have problems, but against other marine lists I'd wager it'd do well.

 

I plan to try out a Sternguard list tonight, so I'll report back on my findings.

[RandomGuy]

How about 4 Thunderwolf Cavalry? Give 1 Furious charge, 1 Feel no Pain and 1 Prefered Enemy. Or if your opponent has managed to find a strength 10 weapon to bring 1 gets eternal warrior...

 

Random Guy

[Hellios]

Space Wolves have some pretty nice builds.

 

I ran one the other night using that codex which I felt was quite powerful.

6 Gray Hunters 1 powerweapon, one Melta Gun

1 Stock Razorback

1 Lone Wolf in DTA

 

I didn't play that game using USRs but if I had, I'd probably have given the powerweapon GH Fleet and the Lone Wolf Model Furious Charge. The melta guy probably would have gotten something like Tank Hunter or Stealth.

Granted, against IG armor and Vet spam, you'd have problems, but against other marine lists I'd wager it'd do well.

 

I plan to try out a Sternguard list tonight, so I'll report back on my findings.

 

Quick note you can only give a USR to someone once, so no duplicate specialists and also you can only give someone one... no super hulks with 3 powers XD

[Brother Xeones]

Well, you are correct in what you say, but I'm not sure why you are bringing it up since I haven't done any of those things in the list I posted. . . :)

 

EDIT: By the way, I played that sternguard list that I wanted yesterday, but I went up against a single venerable dreadnought and got clobbered since most of my guys couldn't touch it and I rolled abnormally poorly for armor saves --plus we really should have been playing with more terrain. So, all in all, not a good representative showing of their effectiveness I'd say.

[Hellios]

Well, you are correct in what you say, but I'm not sure why you are bringing it up since I haven't done any of those things in the list I posted. . . ^_^

 

EDIT: By the way, I played that sternguard list that I wanted yesterday, but I went up against a single venerable dreadnought and got clobbered since most of my guys couldn't touch it and I rolled abnormally poorly for armor saves --plus we really should have been playing with more terrain. So, all in all, not a good representative showing of their effectiveness I'd say.

 

Sorry something is wrong with my head XD you are correct.

[chapter master 454]

Well, you are correct in what you say, but I'm not sure why you are bringing it up since I haven't done any of those things in the list I posted. . . ^_^

 

EDIT: By the way, I played that sternguard list that I wanted yesterday, but I went up against a single venerable dreadnought and got clobbered since most of my guys couldn't touch it and I rolled abnormally poorly for armor saves --plus we really should have been playing with more terrain. So, all in all, not a good representative showing of their effectiveness I'd say.

 

Moral of the story: Venerables are pain! The kill team scenerio is actually very poor, nice thought but poor execution. It boils down to a unit vs. unit which isn't right, I mean the unit chosen could be an infantry mauler but not a tank killer or vice versa. Then again I am annoyed at lack of HS choice (come on! I want my devastor squad!)

[Xeonic]

My idea(maybe a little silly): 10 chaos space marines, aspiring champion with power weapon, autocannon, meltagun.

I'd probably give the champion furious charge, the autocannon relentless or tank hunters, and the melta feel no pain. The idea is that an autocannon should in theory be able to take down anything on the board with relative ease

 

My second idea toying with chaos marines was 7 chaos raptors, aspiring champion with a pair of lightning claws, 2x meltagun

Chaos seems to have quite a few powerful potential killteam setups.

The loyalist equivalent would be...

Assault marines x7, sergeant with storm shield and lightning claw, one plasma pistol

Quite inferior to the raptor list though.

 

One other silly idea was to use 1ksons. No, really, hear me out.

6x thousand sons, aspiring sorcerer with warptime Every shot fired is AP3, everyone is relentless, the sorcerer has a force weapon and rerolls. Give the sorc furious charge or even fleet, give one of the 1ksons feel no pain, and another stealth. Anything with a vehicle would of course destroy this list.

 

And finally, the list you'll probably actually see.

6x plague marines, plague champ with power weapon, 2x plasma gun.

furious charge on the champ, stealth on one plasma gun, possibly relentless on the other.

 

Of course since I'm spewing potential lists, my own list:

Space Marine Scouts x8, camo cloaks(3+ coversaves all around!)

Relentless Telion

Slow and Purposeful Missile launcher(maybe feel no pain or even tank hunter as it's my only AT)

probably furious charge or more likely preferred enemy on a random BP+CCW scout

was thinking 2x shotguns, 3x snipers, 2x BP+CCW for flavor

But what can I say, I'm goofy and I like narrative gameplay. ;)

 

One parting ludicrous list:

Chaos terminators x4

terminator champion, pair of lightning claws, furious charge

terminator champion, pair of lightning claws, preferred enemy

terminator, reaper autocannon

terminator chainfist, fleet ;)

 

EDIT: and I think saying it's a "poor execution" is a bit silly, killteam is a fun gameplay mode, it's not designed for a hardcore tournament mindset. Of course some things will be more effective than others because mostly it's a really small team on really small team event. Anyways, if you see someone with a ven dread, that's about all they can take, so grab a tac squad or whatever, melta+multimelta+powerfist it up and once the speedbump is gone rejoice. A lone ven. dread costs 165 pts naked, and can be hurt by any weapon S6 or above. A humble tactical squad can load up on 3 of such weapons easily, and a sternguard or other elite can take as many as it has men. All the lists I've thought of can be handled by a specific build with relative ease, the one that I think would give many players issue would be actually the raptors. strong assault element backed up by a pair of fast meltaguns? Oh yes, I think I'm in love.

[The Normish]

I thought you couldn't have vehicles on a kill-team.

I see a lot of people putting rhinos on their lists, but I'm sure you're not allowed to, even if it is a dedicated transport choice.

[Vanor]

but I'm sure you're not allowed to, even if it is a dedicated transport choice.

 

There was nothing in the rules that I saw, that said you couldn't take vehicles.

[Hellios]

I thought you couldn't have vehicles on a kill-team.

I see a lot of people putting rhinos on their lists, but I'm sure you're not allowed to, even if it is a dedicated transport choice.

 

You can take a venerable dreadnought if you want...

[Sparhawk]

The only restrictions are the modified FoC.

0-1 Elite

0-2 Troop

0-1 Fast Attack

200pts

Anything that fits in there is golden. Remembering, of course, that units are bought together not as individual models.

[Xeonic]

I thought you couldn't have vehicles on a kill-team.

I see a lot of people putting rhinos on their lists, but I'm sure you're not allowed to, even if it is a dedicated transport choice.

 

You can take a venerable dreadnought if you want...

Which is by far greatly offset by that being the only thing you can field, as even a basic 5 man scout squad won't fit into the leftover points.

 

what does fit is this: Venerable Dread, plasma cannon, heavy flamer, extra armor.

And there are some lists you can formulate with 5+ meltas in 200 pts that could kill it before the entire squad got to fire.

Don't get me wrong, ven dreads with EA are very tough. They aren't tough enough to kill a squad that is basically their counter, espescially one that can spread out to avoid blast/template damage and where it can only fire on or assault one model per turn.

That is of course assuming killteams follows the normal targeting and shooting rules it can kill one model per turn, I haven't actually had a chance to read them yet. :)

[Hellios]

I thought you couldn't have vehicles on a kill-team.

I see a lot of people putting rhinos on their lists, but I'm sure you're not allowed to, even if it is a dedicated transport choice.

 

You can take a venerable dreadnought if you want...

Which is by far greatly offset by that being the only thing you can field, as even a basic 5 man scout squad won't fit into the leftover points.

 

what does fit is this: Venerable Dread, plasma cannon, heavy flamer, extra armor.

And there are some lists you can formulate with 5+ meltas in 200 pts that could kill it before the entire squad got to fire.

Don't get me wrong, ven dreads with EA are very tough. They aren't tough enough to kill a squad that is basically their counter, espescially one that can spread out to avoid blast/template damage and where it can only fire on or assault one model per turn.

That is of course assuming killteams follows the normal targeting and shooting rules it can kill one model per turn, I haven't actually had a chance to read them yet. :)

 

 

I realise this... I've been playing Dark Eldar... with lots of lance... killing stuff before it gets near...

 

Also you can split fire... so with an assault cannon and stormbolter I could theoretically kill 6 in a turn from shooting.

[Vaaish]

I should probably chime in here, I was the one Xeones was playing. Basically I was curious as to how a venerable with TLAC, Plasma cannon, and extra armor held up. As has been stated you can split fire and since each model is it's own unit, you can't hide your heavy weapons. I will say that the game was rather boring and somewhat aberrant with his save rolls as I'd killed both multi-meltas and 2 combi weapon guys before he was able to shoot me. By that time he only had one combi plasma and although it penetrated it only scored a 1.

 

So far from our games we've decided that the assault rules need a bit of tweaking, and at least with the terrain we have, the cover saves need to be more frequent.

[Commander Sasha]

1)...The kill team scenerio is actually very poor, nice thought but poor execution.

2)...It boils down to a unit vs. unit which isn't right, I mean the unit chosen could be an infantry mauler but not a tank killer or vice versa.

3)...Then again I am annoyed at lack of HS choice (come on! I want my devastor squad!)

1) I like it, but agree it needs tweaking.

2) I disagree strongly! As the whole table acts as independent characters, a unit of Tacticals becomes a Heavy unit, A special unit, a Powerfist mauler and 7 other basic units! I view my shopping list for the army selection as drawing from 2 units, so far I've run a Landspeeder and sterns or vets, and Dread/scouts, both of which were fun.

3) At which point, it would stop being a small mission about a crack team of specialists!

4)...So far from our games we've decided that the assault rules need a bit of tweaking,

5)...and at least with the terrain we have, the cover saves need to be more frequent.

4) Agreed; We play the following:

i) Bump up to 220 points, mainly to allow our Dark Angels player a unit of Deathwing, but giving access to twin dreads is fun. Also good for marines, as it means you can use a LS or AB, and still add toys to vet squads.

ii) Codex units can have half the minimum members (rounding up) for a discussed point value: Sgt+2marines=60pts, Sgt biker+biker=60 etc, just to bring some variety, especially against cheap hordes. My Skaven/Tyranid counts-as had four units of ~50pts!

5) As the scenario suggests, pack the table with cover, obstacles and terrain. It's only a small board, fill it! Get thee to a pet shop, lots of pre-painted ruined buildings for a few pounds each!