What comes first Pinning check or Mprale check?

[Tribune Brickerius]

Brothers,

 

I am Brickerius , Tribune of the Fifth Cohort of the Praetorian Legion Chapter. I seek your guidance on a issue that has arisen during our last engagement. Listen well my Brothers and feel my frustations. I ask for your judgement.

 

My situation is this. I caused casulties to an enemy unit from a pinning weapon and it also caused more than 25% casulties. I understand this to mean that there is a morale check and then a pinning check if the morale check is passed. Reading in the rulebook it states that there are morale checks vs leadership for casulties caused and that there are pinning checks vs leadership based on taking a casultey from a pinning weapon. In my mind I see the the morale check first and then the pinning check, it makes sense to me that if you run away there is no reason to check for being pinned. My opponent(Eldar) argued that there is only one check to be made and that was for morale, whether it was passed or not. The alien tried to use warp sorcery to cloud my mind but I held firm. In the interest of a friendly game I let this one pass(I was kicking his A$$ by the way) so I did not feel that bad about it. Now I generaly run two Whirlwinds in my 1k list and I murder the infantry of the Eldar and Ork and Traitor Guard that I play against. I know this one opponent will bring this issue up again. He is the only one who argues this, everyone else in my monthly group sees it the same way.

Am I reading something wrong, or, is the Warp Dabbler right?.

I seek the counsel of those Brothers in the Chapters who have served longer than My Praetorians.

Imperator Victa!

Praetoria Victa!

[Legatus]

According to the rules for 'pinning' on page 31, a Pinning test is taken immediately if a unit happens to suffer wounds from a pinning weapon. I.e. taking the test is the next step after it has been resolved whether or not a unit suffered any wounds from one particular enemy unit. This also means that a unit can be forced to tale multiple pinning tests per turn, for every enemy unit that causes any wounds with pinning weapons.

Morale tests for 25% or more casualties on the other hand are taken at the end of the phase where the casualties were suffered.

 

So the sequence would be like this:

 

- Start of Enemy Shooting Phase

 

- A unit of 5 Marines is shot by enemy Guard snipers and after rolling saves suffer 2 unsaved wounds. The Marines now have to take a Pinning test.

 

- The same unit of (now 3) Marines is shot by enemy mortars, suffering 1 more unsaved wound. The Marines now have to take another Pinning test.

 

- More shooting, unrelated to the Marine squad.

 

- End of Enemy Shooting Phase. The Marine squad (2 remaining) has lost more than 25% of the models it started with (it lost 60% of the 5 models it started with), so the squad now has to take a Morale test.

[Tribune Brickerius]

Thank you Brother. That was exactly what I was wanting to hear. I missed the part of the pinning check being an immediate roll compared to the morale check being taken only once at the end of all shooting.

 

HA HA. By the Emperor I am going to massacre that Eldar runt now.

[Koremu]

Legatus is correct. Note that this means you can fail a pinning check (or go to ground), gain the increased cover save for the remainder of the phase, then fail (or bottle) a Morale Check and come up guns blazing.

[ShinyRhino]

Legatus is correct. Note that this means you can fail a pinning check (or go to ground), gain the increased cover save for the remainder of the phase, then fail (or bottle) a Morale Check and come up guns blazing.

 

Are you sure on that one? I'm not sure Falling Back status erases the Gone to Ground status. The unit with both would gain the cover save from being Pinned, but would still have to Fall Back. If they fail to rally at the beginning of their next turn, they make an additional Fall Back move, gain the cover save for being Pinned (in their new location), and would not be able to fire in their shooting phase like a normal Falling Back unit would.

[DuncanSpence]

I'm not sure Falling Back status erases the Gone to Ground status.

Apparently, it does.

P24 Going to Ground sidebar, last para -

If the unit has to fall back, it returns to normal immediately.

Never spotted that before :lol:

[Koremu]

Not only does it break you out of GtG, but you don't even count as having moved after the Rally, so you can do all that and then fire Heavy Weapons!

[gdeathlegion]

SPAEZ MAHREENS, ASSEMBLE!

[Commander Sasha]

Adopted! Thanks!