Librarian LRC and Thunderfire Cannon

[G3Spoon]

I was thinking of taking a Librarian in a Land Raider Crusade.

 

Can I move the LRC 12", Disembark, Run, Cast Quickening and Assault?

 

Can I take a Servitor with a Thunderfire Cannon?

 

If so, wouldn't that be like getting an extra wound for only 10 pts.

(Since there are equal number of models with dif toughness, the highest is used,

but wound allocation as normal)

I wouldn't take more than one servitor as it would make the unit squishier.

[Legatus]

Can I move the LRC 12", Disembark, Run, Cast Quickening and Assault?

Yes. You might not want to get a Land Raider solely to ferry around your Librarian, though.

 

 

Can I take a Servitor with a Thunderfire Cannon?

 

If so, wouldn't that be like getting an extra wound for only 10 pts.

Yes, you can take a unit of Servitors if you include a Thudnerfire Cannon (as it comes with a Techmarine), but no, it would not be like getting an extra wound for the Thunderfire Cannon. Servitors are an independent unit from the Techmarines, they are not bought as upgrades or wargear for them.

A regular Techmarine or Master of the Forge could then of course join the squad of Servitors, as they are independent characters. The Techmarine with the Thunderfire Cannon however does not benefit from the 'independent character' rules as long as the gun is intact, so he could not join the unit of Servitors you bought for him.

[waaanial00]

Even if you could find a way to join the Thunderfire cannon Techmarine to the Servitors then it still wouldnt matter as they are not classified as crew (thats only the Techmarine) and therefore you still wouldnt be able to allocate wounds to the Servitors.

 

Wan

[Commander Sasha]

Can I take a Servitor with a Thunderfire Cannon?

If so, wouldn't that be like getting an extra wound for only 10 pts.

Yes, you can take a unit of Servitors if you include a Thudnerfire Cannon (as it comes with a Techmarine), but no, it would not be like getting an extra wound for the Thunderfire Cannon. Servitors are an independent unit from the Techmarines, they are not bought as upgrades or wargear for them.

A regular Techmarine or Master of the Forge could then of course join the squad of Servitors, as they are independent characters. The Techmarine with the Thunderfire Cannon however does not benefit from the 'independent character' rules as long as the gun is intact, so he could not join the unit of Servitors you bought for him.

All true; a few extra thoughts though.

A unit of servitors could give the cover/screening to the cannon, if you weren't able to find a suitable ruin or terrain, so although not strictly speaking giving you extra wounds, are at least mitigating risks. If they are long range shooty servitors, all the better, as being a separate unit in game terms, they can target a different enemy from the TFC. Multiple targetting FTW!

 

Remember that if the Cannon is destroyed and the Techmarine isn't, he becomes an Independent Character, and at that point he CAN then join the servitor unit, for wound absorption.

 

Great, now I want some servitors too!

[greatcrusade08]

forget the servitors run with a unit of assault scouts.. cheap and effective in a raider

[Koremu]

I was thinking of taking a Librarian in a Land Raider Crusade.

 

Can I move the LRC 12", Disembark, Run, Cast Quickening and Assault?

 

Can I take a Servitor with a Thunderfire Cannon?

 

If so, wouldn't that be like getting an extra wound for only 10 pts.

(Since there are equal number of models with dif toughness, the highest is used,

but wound allocation as normal)

I wouldn't take more than one servitor as it would make the unit squishier.

Firstly: If memory serves, Quickening was errata'd to be cast at the start of the Shooting Phase, not the Assault Phase.

 

Secondly: Yes, but remember that ICs can only leave a unit they have joined during the Movement Phase, so the Librarian would either have to exit the Raider alone, or exit so that he was more than 2" from any other model in the unit. Quickening of course affects only the Librarian, so if you ran while part of a unit, you would not be able to Assault (because you're still part of the unit and cannot leave in the Assault phase)

[Grey Mage]

*blinks* Since when can you take servitors for a TFC?

[G3Spoon]

forget the servitors run with a unit of assault scouts.. cheap and effective in a raider

 

 

This seems like a good idea, Since its not a dedicated transport, can they start the game in the raider.

 

As for the Librarian w/ a squad. I was planning on using quickening if I can't get within 6" of a unit. That way I can tie up the squad I'm going for.

 

This seems like an fun idea. Has anyone done something like this?

[Commander Sasha]

*blinks* Since when can you take servitors for a TFC?

This one is awaiting an official FAQ, I believe; the wording of servitors says they may join a TM (p138), and the TFC "is crewed by a single techmarine" (p73). My community play servitors can be included, but there have been arguments.

[greatcrusade08]

This seems like a good idea, Since its not a dedicated transport, can they start the game in the raider.

 

Yes, the only thing you cant do is start the game in another units dedicated transport

[SeattleDV8]

*blinks* Since when can you take servitors for a TFC?

This one is awaiting an official FAQ, I believe; the wording of servitors says they may join a TM (p138), and the TFC "is crewed by a single techmarine" (p73). My community play servitors can be included, but there have been arguments.

The techmarine can only join the servitors if he has the Independent Character rule.

The techmarine crewing the TFC has lost that rule as long as the Cannon is there.

[Grey Mage]

*blinks* Since when can you take servitors for a TFC?

This one is awaiting an official FAQ, I believe; the wording of servitors says they may join a TM (p138), and the TFC "is crewed by a single techmarine" (p73). My community play servitors can be included, but there have been arguments.

The techmarine can only join the servitors if he has the Independent Character rule.

The techmarine crewing the TFC has lost that rule as long as the Cannon is there.

I believe what hes saying is that they can be selected if you have a techmarine, and that since the TFC has a techmarine as part of the unit you can take a unit of servitors.

 

I wouldnt complain if my group decided on this one, but I wouldnt expect to see it allowed in a tournament.

[Commander Sasha]

*blinks* Since when can you take servitors for a TFC?

This one is awaiting an official FAQ, I believe; the wording of servitors says they may join a TM (p138), and the TFC "is crewed by a single techmarine" (p73). My community play servitors can be included, but there have been arguments.

The techmarine can only join the servitors if he has the Independent Character rule.

The techmarine crewing the TFC has lost that rule as long as the Cannon is there.

I believe what hes saying is that they can be selected if you have a techmarine, and that since the TFC has a techmarine as part of the unit you can take a unit of servitors.

 

I wouldnt complain if my group decided on this one, but I wouldnt expect to see it allowed in a tournament.

Sorry, my poor choice of words: Where I said 'join', the codex actually says 'you may include one unit of servitors for every Techmarine or Master of the Forge in your army". It doesn't specify whether or not they must join the TM.

 

I will, however, bow to GreyMage's experience, as I am not a tournament player!

[SeattleDV8]

Also the TFC unit composition on pg. 142 of the codex calls for a 'Techmarine Gunner' not a Techmarine.

I would say that it would not allow you to take the servitor's.

[Grey Mage]

*blinks* Since when can you take servitors for a TFC?

This one is awaiting an official FAQ, I believe; the wording of servitors says they may join a TM (p138), and the TFC "is crewed by a single techmarine" (p73). My community play servitors can be included, but there have been arguments.

The techmarine can only join the servitors if he has the Independent Character rule.

The techmarine crewing the TFC has lost that rule as long as the Cannon is there.

I believe what hes saying is that they can be selected if you have a techmarine, and that since the TFC has a techmarine as part of the unit you can take a unit of servitors.

 

I wouldnt complain if my group decided on this one, but I wouldnt expect to see it allowed in a tournament.

Sorry, my poor choice of words: Where I said 'join', the codex actually says 'you may include one unit of servitors for every Techmarine or Master of the Forge in your army". It doesn't specify whether or not they must join the TM.

 

I will, however, bow to GreyMage's experience, as I am not a tournament player!

Basicly it comes down to the simple fact that a techmarine is a unit choice of its own, while the TFC is an entirely different unit that happens to include a techmarine as the gunner. *spreads hands*.

 

Its kind of like the Masters of the Chapter- you get honor gaurd, but no command squads. Though that may be a bit out of context as its apocalypse.

[Legatus]

Also the TFC unit composition on pg. 142 of the codex calls for a 'Techmarine Gunner' not a Techmarine.

I would say that it would not allow you to take the servitor's.

Maybe you are not supposed to be able to get a unit of Servitors. On the other hand, in the description for the Thunderfire Cannon on page 73 it is described as being crewed by "a single Techmarine", and then refers to page 71 for his special rules (that's where Techmarines are described), with the exception that he will only start to count as an Independent Character once the cannon is destroyed. This means that for each Thunderfire cannon in your army you can bolster one ruin's defenses, for example. (Actually that is also listed under the Thunderfire cannon's special rules, but that is the reason why.)

[greatcrusade08]

Maybe you are not supposed to be able to get a unit of Servitors. On the other hand, in the description for the Thunderfire Cannon on page 73 it is described as being crewed by "a single Techmarine", and then refers to page 71 for his special rules (that's where Techmarines are described), with the exception that he will only start to count as an Independent Character once the cannon is destroyed. This means that for each Thunderfire cannon in your army you can bolster one ruin's defenses, for example. (Actually that is also listed under the Thunderfire cannon's special rules, but that is the reason why.)

 

im not sold by this argument. as you said he is described as a techmarine, isnt a command squad described as a retinue and an apothecary described as a veteran?

In terms of actual upgrade options we have to look under the TFC listing, where it list no upgrade options for the thunderfire gunner (note hes not called a techmarine here)..

We are told to use special rules noted under techmarine listing but not upgrade options.

Until we get an FAQ or errata on this imon the side of no upgrades inlcuding servitors..

 

Of course in a friendly game anything goes.

[Legatus]

im not sold by this argument. as you said he is described as a techmarine

Perhaps a bad choice of words on my part. The "description" I refered to is not fluff, it is part of the Thunderfire Cannon's rules in it's unit description.

 

"Each Thunderfire Cannon is crewed by a single Techmarine (see page 71 for special rules). Note that the Techmarine does not benefit from the Independent Character and Blessing of the Omnissiah special rules unless his Thunderfire Cannon has been destroyed."

5th Edition Codex Space Marines, page 73

 

That does look like he is treated as nothing other than a proper Techmarine in that entry.

 

 

isnt a command squad described as a retinue and an apothecary described as a veteran?

The Command Squad is not refered to as a retinue in any rule relevant text as far as I know. As for the Apothecary, one of the common arguments for him not being a veteran is that he has his own stat line in the 'Command Squad' army list entry. There is one for 'Veteran' and one for 'Apothecary'. Conversely, the stat line given in the Thunderfire Cannon entry reads 'Techmarine'.